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Old 5th June 2012, 21:41   #136
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800 MPs are Air India’s new Maharajas in the sky - Indian Express

So the preferential treatment continues! All at the expense of tax payers money. So how can we even dream of Ram Rajya?
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Old 5th June 2012, 22:49   #137
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Let me put my perspective. This is an interesting thread started by selfdrive.

People worldwide are pretty much the same. They can be arrogant, liars, can cheat, can kill, can break rules etc. But its the strict adherence of rules, law and order that makes people behave like sensible citizens.

I once visited a relatives house in US. They have kept everything clean, maintains the house per the local law, got their car running properly with excellent service history and ensures their front yard is clean etc. They shred the documents instead of burning them, does their household work without any complaints and feels proud and justifies their existence in US, they are proud of following rules while driving etc. Further, even the 5 year old kid is made to wear a diaper whenever they go out for more than 1hr. They are proud that the US system ensures tax, payments are collected and dues are not tolerated. They would ensure payments are not missed, reminders on their diary, calendars etc. to keep a tab of payment dates, and so on.

The same relatives when they are in India, spits on the road, let their kids attend nature calls on the road side, treats labourers as slaves and make them do pretty much every job in their estate and justifies it by saying 'I am giving them Rs. 150 per day", drives their newly acquired Innovas on the road as if there is no tomorrow and enjoys the rash driving. They are so proud of their driving skills that stories of missing a nasty accident and how they escaped law keeps coming up during the evening drinking session, as if they had done some heroic acts etc. Further, they even go ahead and bribe Rs. 500 to the local electric office clerk to get some adjustments done for reducing their hefty electric bills (not more than Rs. 7500 though). The left over documents, plastic bottles etc. are burned in their backyard, unmindful of the pollution and health issues that can be caused by burning plastic.

So what's the big difference ? The rules are very strict and adherence is not optional in US. In India rules are lenient and adherence is never an option !!!!

In US, i can be sued for millions and the rules are strict if i cause an accident. In India, a few rupees would end the matter. In US, individuals and companies might end up paying millions for late delivery, punctuality etc unlike India. Guess this would have a big impact in shaping up the nation.

I have no intentions to go abroad soon, but i wish improvements are part of India too.
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Old 6th June 2012, 11:40   #138
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So what's the big difference ? The rules are very strict and adherence is not optional in US. In India rules are lenient and adherence is never an option !!!!
I agree with you but that isnt really the problem I am having. It is not about how we behave here vs. how we behave there. My problem is in dealing with how we behave now vs. how we behaved say 7-8 years ago.

Some may call it a generation gap, but if that is the case we are certainly not headed in the correct direction in terms of sensitivity towards our own countrymen/ neighbours.
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Old 18th July 2012, 14:17   #139
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I had a problem with a pavement hole opening into a nallah next to my building and I needed to get it fixed. So how do I go about it? No idea.

Let me try to find out my local corporator first. Maybe he can help. So I follow these steps

/begin article
How to use an SMS to know the secrets of our netas | Firstpost

Nearly 900 million Indians are now tantalizingly close to accessing vital information, access to which can make an impact on the quality of elected representatives who lord over us in the parliament and state assemblies ; information that is, not inexplicably, withheld from us by those who gain the most by withholding such information.
All you need is intent and a mobile phone.
Sample this. It took me less than 15 seconds to get some critical information pertaining to the financial, educational and criminal background of the MP from my constituency.
How?
Do you know the pin-code of the area where you are registered as a voter?
Yes?
We are good to go…..
SMS MYNETA <pin-code> to 56070 or to 92465-56070.
Here is what I got when I sent that text: “Lok Sabha constituency XXXXX, MP YYYY, Party-name ZZZZ, Criminal cases – Yes(1), Assets Rs. 5.4 crore, Liabilities Rs. 3.3 crore, Education 12th Pass”
/ end article

The SMS doesnt give me his contact details, but gives me a fair idea of his bakground. Doesnt seem so scary after all. I then contact the local guy who was canvassing for votes for the same party and obtain the corporators number. I call the corporator and explain the situation and associated risks to him (there is a school on the other side of the nallah). He assures me of getting it fixed. True to my pessimism, I hang up shaking my head.

Much to my surprise the next morning, I see some workers milling around the area and within 24 hours of my call, barricades had been put up at that spot. They are still there and the risk of someone falling into it is gone for now.

All is not lost yet. Some things still work and I am glad to know this. Maybe it will not always work in precision, but there is an opportunity. We only need to find out how to make it work.

I have two options, just to sit back and rant at politicians enjoying at tax payers expense. or to try and get some work done. if they are enjoying some benefits, get in touch with them and ask them to do do something specific for you. They might as well help

Last edited by selfdrive : 18th July 2012 at 14:25.
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Old 30th August 2012, 16:21   #140
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I agree with you but that isnt really the problem I am having. It is not about how we behave here vs. how we behave there. My problem is in dealing with how we behave now vs. how we behaved say 7-8 years ago.

Some may call it a generation gap, but if that is the case we are certainly not headed in the correct direction in terms of sensitivity towards our own countrymen/ neighbours.
Selfdrive and numerous others who have posted on this thread over the time, I am on the verge of taking a decision if I should return to India or stay abroad. This thread is a reflection of my mind whenever I am treading on that mountain cliff. There is an exhaustive list of factors to consider before I make a decision, I am still organising my thoughts to work over the list one by one. I will need some first hand experiences and advice, I am not just a newbie on this forum, I feel I am a newbie in life (read: quarter life crisis).

As selfdrive has pointed out, I feel the corporate culture has reduced to a very lowly state of affairs, I remember from my 3 years of work in India, it was mostly buttering and ensuring you are in the right place at the right time. Talent and ability were tossed out of the window long time back. My brother who is still working in India tells me it is getting worse. I plan to return to India to live a happy and content life with my family. I have a single parent family and I feel it's time for my mother to live with her sons now rather than shuttle around the globe trying to adjust to different cultures and customs. I am convinced I will be happy on the personal front in India. It's the professional life that worries me, I guess I will need to develop a lot more patience, tolerance and a bit of ignorance to deal with things once back. Any advice??
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Old 30th August 2012, 16:44   #141
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I am convinced I will be happy on the personal front in India. It's the professional life that worries me, I guess I will need to develop a lot more patience, tolerance and a bit of ignorance to deal with things once back. Any advice??
here's something I was talking about with a fellow bhpian friend during lunch today.
Returning to India for me is walking a tightrope between a practical and emotional decision. In my case, if I think about it on the emotional side, its been a good decision. However, if I think about it from the practical point of view, its been the biggest regret of my life. the problem is we dont survive solely on practicality or on emotions, we just need to strike the correct balance.

Which side you prefer dictates what kind of decision you want to take.

In my opinion, if you want to return to India the door remains open now, next year and the years after. However, once you come back here, how long and ajar the door remains to go back out is something you would know better for yourself. As for the emotional side, you need to weigh it against the practicality (or the other way around) and decide for yourself. After all you have to live with the decision later

keep us posted, we will help whatever you choose to do!

Edit:
take some time off (perhaps a fortnight) and come and live here as if you have moved back (not as a NRI vacation, if you know what I mean!). then try and ascertain after a week if you can extrapolate your experience. the only thing you will miss is workplace issues, which unfortunately is the second worst part in my opinion. the worst being lack of respect.

Last edited by selfdrive : 30th August 2012 at 16:48.
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Old 30th August 2012, 17:40   #142
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Some may call it a generation gap, but if that is the case we are certainly not headed in the correct direction in terms of sensitivity towards our own countrymen/ neighbours.
My 2 cents on this topic is, India will always remain a warm and good place to come back to. US or any other advanced country will always remain a country with laws/policies/rules & regulations etc.

This really has to do with behavioral issues and patterns. Of all the trips I have done to the US/Europe not once have I not been acknowledged either at doors, lifts, stairs etc. That's basic courtesy. Trust me even a not so well to do individual would acknowledge you if you look him in the eye. Well that is what is missing here. People seem to be so disconnected and do not want to bother about others. I guess the "rat-race" could be one of the factors contributing to this behavioral issue. There is dignity of labor there and here we treat people doing manual work with so much disrespect!

The change is within us and we have to change. Only then the system will change.
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Old 30th August 2012, 17:53   #143
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Trust me even a not so well to do individual would acknowledge you if you look him in the eye. Well that is what is missing here. People seem to be so disconnected and do not want to bother about others. I guess the "rat-race" could be one of the factors contributing to this behavioral issue.
Why is this a behavioral issue. Its the way we are. I have never understood why people keep acknowledging each other in the US.
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Old 30th August 2012, 18:20   #144
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I have never understood why people keep acknowledging each other in the US.

Let me guess, to take this a bit further.

Population density is far lower in the US, so we meet a few people at the stairs, lifts, we acknowledge, and its all fine.

In India, 15 to 20 people tumble out of lifts and escalators in most public places, and it would be rude if you left out any one person un-acknowledged. So better none are acknowledged, is the inevitable logic, I suppose.
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Old 30th August 2012, 18:45   #145
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Why is this a behavioral issue. Its the way we are. I have never understood why people keep acknowledging each other in the US.
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In India, 15 to 20 people tumble out of lifts and escalators in most public places, and it would be rude if you left out any one person un-acknowledged. So better none are acknowledged, is the inevitable logic, I suppose.
I dont mind if people acknowledge each other here in India or not. As long as they stay clear of stomping on my feet and pushing me away while getting in an elevator I would be grateful. Its not a train that one will have to wait an hour for, another elevator would be there in a few minutes if not seconds. This is the so called educated class, whom we should actually call the literate class, as I dont think they behave like they are educated.

We lack etiquette. and if we say we are like this only, in a way we don't expect to improve. and yes, that is a behavioural pattern. to accept things as they are rather than try to improve.

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The change is within us and we have to change. Only then the system will change.
In the above example, I will continue to stand my ground and use words like excuse me or please. People continue to go their belligerent bulldozing way. After a few such repetitions, can we expect to change the system by continuing to be the change? How difficult is to wait for a person to get off the elevator for instance. or to understand that unless the person comes out, there wont be enough space? This is only an example, extrapolate it to anything and the attitude is the same. I am not expecting others to give their space to me, I am only expecting that they dont bulldoze and grab mine.

Last edited by selfdrive : 30th August 2012 at 18:49.
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Old 30th August 2012, 18:49   #146
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@Selfdrive, Welcome Back to The Country we love despite the shortcomings !!

Punctuality has never been a trademark for us, however things are improving, if you have come across people who do not stick to the time lines, there are ones who are very punctual, albeit rare, but they are increasing.

About Service/Support issues, it still baffles me, that with so much competition in every area there are still umpteen issues that we face, Despite the fact that a major chunk of our economy comes from the service industry, that helps so many countries very efficiently..

The only thing that I can say about the Traffic and Urgency is that the numbers are increasing and the infrastructure isn't growing at a rate good enough to match up with the rise in numbers. Even that would need time. The surge in the number of people in big cities has been Massive. And most importantly we still think we can go across Pune in 30 mins

All I would like to tell you that it takes each one to drive a change, if there are certain good things/habits that you follow, Keep following, you will see things around you change. If each one can drive a positive change to another person, it wont take long before things around us improve significantly. !!
And well many times it is in the best interest to ignore certain things, much the same way you wouldn't bother arguing with insane people.
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Old 30th August 2012, 19:09   #147
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We lack etiquette. and if we say we are like this only, in a way we don't expect to improve. and yes, that is a behavioural pattern. to accept things as they are rather than try to improve.
What you have said is absolutely right. We certainly need to improve on certain things. However isnt inertia a global phenomenon?
Some one was mentioning about the service industry. I certainly feel its much better in India than abroad. People in the service industry here are more interested in helping out than doing a job for X amount of time sticking to rules.

Last edited by zoombiee : 30th August 2012 at 19:11.
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Old 5th December 2012, 12:03   #148
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Came across this article on the net. Wonder how many people go through this experience?

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/...?smid=fb-share

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 5th December 2012, 21:38   #149
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Came across this article on the net. Wonder how many people go through this experience?

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/...?smid=fb-share

Cheers,
Vikram
And here is the counter article by the self righteous, pseudo intellectual Chetan Bhagat who thinks he is the final authority on anything Indian:
http://www.chetanbhagat.com/blog/201...am-still-here/

I dont think he has countered the points raised in the NYTimes article. He just wanted to say something because he felt like it.
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Old 5th December 2012, 21:44   #150
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Pains of "returning" are gut-wrenchingly put together in "Maximum City" by Suketu Mehta. His opinions may sound harsh to our milder sensibilities, but are absolutely spot on, if analysed impartially.
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