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Old 3rd April 2017, 13:04   #346
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Default Re: Recession Again ?

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That makes sense. I am getting some offers/ calls from service based companies. Is it wise to take it up? I am working for a US bank in technology side.
Depends upon what service you're offering; I've been thinking of a future job already...robot repair

Jokes apart, it depends upon what level of service; almost all level 1 jobs will be eradicated in near future followed by level 2 with a question of time, be it banking, technology or whatever support.

All said, be it service or product based company, if one does not refreshing their skills, they're bound to left behind, sad, but true.
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Old 9th May 2017, 19:29   #347
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Big layoff announcements are happening...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/58585806.cms
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Old 9th May 2017, 19:39   #348
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Big layoff announcements are happening...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/58585806.cms
This bit from the article is good insight. A bit of stating the obvious, but still:

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Peter Bendor Samuel, CEO of IT consulting firm Everest Group, said the industry growth has slowed and the "arbitrage first" segment (traditional IT services) is in secular decline. "When this is added to the pyramid factory model which requires new freshers to be brought in every year to keep cost low, it results in an excess of more experienced employees," he said.
He thinks the most vulnerable employees are those with 3-7 years of experience. "Unfortunately, the new digital service economy is starting to further reduce the need for these employees. In many instances, the introduction of digital service models with extreme automation, can eliminate 40% or more of the FTEs (full time equivalent/employee) in a function. Finally, the new digital models require a lower proportion of FTEs offshore than the traditional arbitrage model and as these new service models take over, they will further stress the employment model," he said.
Staffing levels will go down further with automation and the focused scrutiny it would consequently bring. In today's world, far too many people occupy places in an organisational pyramid where nobody really knows what the role is supposed to achieve, with most responsibilities overlapping with the level above/below.

What Industrial Revolution did to manufacturing is now happening to IT and associated services. Natural progression, and nothing anyone can do about it, except skill themselves to fill one of the roles that will survive the cleanse in the new world. The days of filling a role for the sake of filling it are close to extinction.
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Old 9th May 2017, 20:12   #349
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Natural progression, and nothing anyone can do about it, except skill themselves to fill one of the roles that will survive the cleanse in the new world. The days of filling a role for the sake of filling it are close to extinction.
Except here, the re-skilling will not be in the same industry. They should start considering other industries, which may not offer similar salaries, but is traditionally starved of human resources.
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Old 9th May 2017, 21:05   #350
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Except here, the re-skilling will not be in the same industry. They should start considering other industries, which may not offer similar salaries, but is traditionally starved of human resources.
Absolutely!

I'll go back to an example you quoted a while ago on this thread, about needing to learn concepts instead of methods. The former are eternal and cross-domain, the latter become obsolete with every shift in technology (your example was statistics, I believe). What's really hurting the Indian IT industry through this state of flux is far too many people are method-based learners, and don't care much for underlying concepts (fatal flaw in our educational systems). I have forgotten the number of times I've had someone say something along the lines of "Who cares how it works as long as it does, and I know how to do it".

I'll also quote something I said in a response earlier too:

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Learn 'Concepts' & 'Methods' --> Retain 'Concepts' & Unlearn 'Methods' --> Update 'Concepts' & Relearn 'New Methods'
If it's isn't too late in one's career, in an industry that could become obsolete as a whole, even the 'Concept' is not sacrosanct and one would need to pick up a new one from scratch. Hard work though

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 9th May 2017 at 21:12.
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Old 9th May 2017, 21:25   #351
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Instead of recognizing this new reality, some IT folks are trying to form unions, like that is going to solve anything.

Unions can be an answer in a profit making industry where workers are being oppressed and exploited. When that was happening, folks were busy making money, and nobody wanted unions. Now that the jobs are vanishing, they are looking at unions. What is the union going to do, create jobs out of thin air?
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Old 9th May 2017, 21:53   #352
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.......Now that the jobs are vanishing, they are looking at unions. What is the union going to do, create jobs out of thin air?
That's akin to moving back deckchairs a few meters to counter a tsunami

This kind of reaction isn't new. Change is always hard to swallow, esp. for people who get too comfortable with status quo and are either incapable of or unwilling to change.

Like you say, it won't solve anything. Moving deckchairs work for high/low tides, not tsunamis.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 9th May 2017 at 21:54.
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Old 10th May 2017, 10:20   #353
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(fatal flaw in our educational systems)
Absolutely. I remember when I was in 12th standard, I was taught how to solve integration and differential equations and I used to be pretty good with them because of practice, but no one actually told us the real world implications or problem solving ability of these concepts. The same was the case when I was studying organic chemistry and learning chemical reactions. Infact, given a time machine and my current understanding or wisdom (whatever you want to call it) if I could go back to my school days, I would study entirely differently.

Coming back to the layoffs, I think we need a rude jolt to bring us out of our slumber. Our so called IT giants never had a vision and still do not have a vision. In most cases and for most projects they are glorified body shops. Its actually embarrassing when you think that a book seller (Amazon) had the foresight and the gumption to be a technology leader but our so called IT giants could not even see the opportunity and are now dependent on the technology stack being provided by the same company.
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Old 10th May 2017, 10:28   #354
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Recession... has hit me. Reason given by management is "Orders given by higher command!"
Have provided with a 2 months notice period(May end).
Now looking for a job in Testing. Intense screening, interview calls, interviews.
For a single senior level position, around 50 candidates appear.
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Old 10th May 2017, 10:46   #355
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Are there any Statistical Analytics professionals here? I am in that area for a long time now. Though I consider myself to be somewhat of a guy who stitches the Business to Solutions more.

I would like to hear about your thoughts. Though the Analytics industry has more or less remained insulated to downturns as the demands outstrips the supply.

I met a guy who lives in the same society and heads the European Markets Analytics Initiatives, and he insisted that they are moving away from Stats - while I keep scratching my head - Analytics without Stats?
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Old 10th May 2017, 11:21   #356
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Recession... has hit me. Reason given by management is "Orders given by higher command!"
Have provided with a 2 months notice period(May end).
Now looking for a job in Testing. Intense screening, interview calls, interviews.
For a single senior level position, around 50 candidates appear.
Really sorry to hear that mate. If you are in automation testing, it should not be too difficult. All the best.

P.S. If you dont mind, which company do you work for? Is it one of the big four (Infy,TCS,Wipro,HCL)
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Old 10th May 2017, 11:34   #357
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@extreme_torque I'm from product based company.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:04   #358
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Instead of recognizing this new reality, some IT folks are trying to form unions, like that is going to solve anything.

Unions can be an answer in a profit making industry where workers are being oppressed and exploited. When that was happening, folks were busy making money, and nobody wanted unions. Now that the jobs are vanishing, they are looking at unions. What is the union going to do, create jobs out of thin air?
I would say there are 2 things here. One, like you say, is that there are no jobs and in that case the Union is not going to be of any help but in the other case many people are being asked to resign forcibly than being terminated and AFAIK, on termination the firm need to give in salary for many months than in the case of a resignation. Adding to it, people are being asked to resign without being given a chance to fill up an existing vacancy within the company or adequate time to find an opening. This, probably is why people are turning up to unions IMO.

P.S. - this is based on the articles and what I have personally seen happen to few folks
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:28   #359
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Default Re: Recession Again ?

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Originally Posted by ramki067 View Post
Recession... has hit me. Reason given by management is "Orders given by higher command!"
Have provided with a 2 months notice period(May end).
Now looking for a job in Testing. Intense screening, interview calls, interviews.
For a single senior level position, around 50 candidates appear.
Any wisdom in exploring opportunities in other than IT sector? We used find it quite difficult to get people to man our 'IT' department in the utility sector. Knowledge of SAP and commercial acumen was desirable.You require to be a bit of a jack (of all trades) and often the clients (user departments) would themselves not know what they want, and if any snafu occurred, it was sure to be 'IT'.
But jobs are safe and appraisals are decent...since not many know what the hell you are doing.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:32   #360
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One, like you say, is that there are no jobs and in that case the Union is not going to be of any help but in the other case many people are being asked to resign forcibly than being terminated and AFAIK, on termination the firm need to give in salary for many months than in the case of a resignation.
You're probably right . It appears to me that forced resignation is a way for companies to get around the complex legalities and compensation surrounding dismissal regulation in India.

EDIT : As per this article and this article not every IT employee would fall under the ID Act , but many would. The definition of a 'workman' has been highly litigated as per these articles.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 10th May 2017 at 12:42.
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