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Old 7th August 2014, 00:06   #631
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Default Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
This is the preferred way in developed markets as has been popularized by the CEO of Vanguard Capital.

But there are problems investing in ETFs in India.

For starters, despite being passive investment vehicles, the expenses charged by Indian ETFs are quite high at 1%+ (typically 1.5%) and are only slightly lower than Direct Plans of large Diversified Equity funds.

Secondly in India, well managed funds typically beat the underlying index. As an example, consider ICICI Value Discovery Regular Plan which has a 1-year trailing return of 88% compared to its index CNX Midcap which gave 62%. It has to be a particularly badly managed fund or a terrible bear market that would make a fund under-perform its underlying index.

Thirdly, ETFs traded on the stock market have poor liquidity. So you have to pay more when you buy an ETF and sell it for less. Selling large quantities may take several days.

These are some of the reasons why ETFs in India all have abysmally low assets under management.
Nowwhat
Hi.
Are there ETF funds with high volumes? I would like to invest.
CPEEF is one such fund which has a good turnover and I have bought in it. Will wait for reaction to add more units.
Other than this any others where impact cost is little and there is ample of liquidity.
Thanks in advance
Regards
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Old 7th August 2014, 10:06   #632
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Nowwhat
CPEEF is one such fund which has a good turnover and I have bought in it. Will wait for reaction to add more units.
I have been thinking of ETFs for many years considering that my brokerage account is idle as I have shifted entirely to mutual funds.

Please read this article to get an idea on ETF liquidity -> ETF and Liquidity Reality

The CPSE ETF is very interesting and I considered investing in it. The only downside is that it is not made up of all PSU stocks. It has only 10 government stocks with ONGC, Coal India and GAIL accounting for 24%, 18% and 16% respectively of portfolio. Hence it is not as diversified as I would have liked it to be. Please read this article -> PSU ETF: An interesting new choice for investing in PSUs

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Originally Posted by Deep Blue View Post
I am at this stage now, struggling to remember so many passwords. Besides some sites need you to change passwords frequently and some won't allow us to repeat the last 3 passwords. Worse is if I don't remember to enter my excel sheet on the day then I have to go back again and search for the NAVs etc.
Ideally you need only 4 or 5 funds.

Excel is cumbersome and unless you are good with formulae you will not be able to calculate the correct annualized yield. Tools such as Value Research are much better. You can also export from there to Excel, so you are not entirely locked in to them. I have heard moneycontrol is also good.

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Originally Posted by tiger_stripes View Post
Yes, high expenses defeats the purpose. There are exceptions, such as the Nifty BeES ETF, which has an expense ratio of only 0.54%.

Regarding well managed funds typically beating the index, now that statement will need some evidence to back it. I just googled to see fund performance vs benchmark in india. As per this article ( http://businesstoday.intoday.in/stor.../1/202704.html ) most Indian mutual funds over the last 3 years have underperformed their benchmarks.
Have replied to some of your points in my reply to faustus77 above.

You are right, the erstwhile Benchmark Capital ETFs (now Goldman Sachs) have low expense ratios and may be the only ones worth investing for those who cannot do without an ETF.

For those who absolutely want an ETF, they can also consider Index Funds run by Kotak, IDBI, HDFC, etc. though their expense ratios are much higher IIRC. However these are fully liquid.

The India Today article looks at AUMs and not NAVs and I do not agree with this methodology and consider it misleading. The fact is the market did not do well for the past 5 years until 2014 and AUMs went down due to redemption pressure.

Last edited by nowwhat? : 7th August 2014 at 10:27.
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Old 8th August 2014, 00:11   #633
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Default Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

Nowwhat?
Hi
Thanks for the links.
The pitfalls are definitely there but as of now CPEEF has a large volume(today's more than 4 lakh units) where buying and selling of a few thousand shares will not matter.Please correct me if I am wrong.
My query was if there were more ETFs which are traded daily and in very big quantities.
Could you please guide.
Thanks a lot
Regards
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Old 10th August 2014, 06:27   #634
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Default Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

There is a very smart site run by some very smart people, with a very honest, simple credo, which can benefit guys like us, the regular joe's of the world.

Try it sometime, I can stand up and say that you will not regret it.

www.scripbox.com is the link.

check it out and see - take the tutorial. Enjoy and watch your money grow. Go about your life with complete peace of mind because scrip box will allow you to concentrate on what you do best...while taking care of your interests on the Mutual Funds world.

A far more intelligent solution than any other that I have seen these last 15 years or so...
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Old 10th August 2014, 13:48   #635
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There is a very smart site run by some very smart people, with a very honest, simple credo, which can benefit guys like us, the regular joe's of the world.
If you see the MFs they have recommended by them over the past many years, their recommendations have not been particularly exceptional as can be seen by trailing 1/3/5 year rankings.

I agree with you that what they are providing is an easy solution to invest in a basket of MFs. However everyone's risk appetite and financial goals/time-frame are different, so I am not sure how they account for that.

Personally I have been following only the Mint 50 provided by the Mint newspaper for many years now. They follow 3/5/7 year returns and the funds they recommend are usually stable.
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Old 11th August 2014, 18:04   #636
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Originally Posted by faustus77 View Post
My query was if there were more ETFs which are traded daily and in very big quantities.
You may check the following ETFs :
NIFTYBEES (comprises NIFTY scrips)
JUNIORBEES (comprises NIFTY Junior scrips)
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Old 12th August 2014, 12:16   #637
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Default Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
There is a very smart site run by some very smart people, with a very honest, simple credo, which can benefit guys like us, the regular joe's of the world.

Try it sometime, I can stand up and say that you will not regret it.

www.scripbox.com is the link.

check it out and see - take the tutorial. Enjoy and watch your money grow. Go about your life with complete peace of mind because scrip box will allow you to concentrate on what you do best...while taking care of your interests on the Mutual Funds world.

A far more intelligent solution than any other that I have seen these last 15 years or so...
Shankar Ji - Did you get a chance to invest through them? How's your experience - Pls share.
There is only one question from my side - What's the catch? where is their income is coming from since they say the service if free of cost.

Thanks for your time
R

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Old 12th August 2014, 12:59   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reisender View Post
There is only one question from my side - What's the catch? where is their income is coming from since they say the service if free of cost.
There are no free lunches, if you go through an intermediary.
They get annual trailing commission out of your investments, from the AMC.

So, better invest in direct plans of selected few AMC's directly(i.e via online) and you would save(At the least, 40% of the expenses charged by the AMC) substantially over a period of time. You can shortlist your universe of funds from morningstar.

Last edited by JMaruru : 12th August 2014 at 13:02.
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Old 12th August 2014, 22:55   #639
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Originally Posted by Fx14 View Post
You may check the following ETFs :
NIFTYBEES (comprises NIFTY scrips)
JUNIORBEES (comprises NIFTY Junior scrips)
Fx14
Hi
Thanks for your response.
Volumes are low. So any trade in this will have a bigger impact cost than a larger traded fund.
Junior had a bit more than 3000 and Nifty BEES had 21000 + (total on both NSE and BSE)
Once again thanks a lot
Regards
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Old 14th August 2014, 18:20   #640
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Default Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

Hi Guys,

Planning to pump in few 10Ks regularly (50k every month hopefully for next 6 - 12 months to build a MF kitty) into mutual funds as I am getting worse (from bad) in investing for future. Planning to use direct plans and have opened a new folio with Birla Sunlife. Planning to do the same with Franklin & ICICI as well. Have closed all the MF investments in ICICIDirect and will use them only for one off buys. My idea is to review the performance of my investments on monthly/quarterly basis & divert money to new funds / realign the existing funds if necessary. Multiple funds are chosen to mitigate risks of bad performance of a particular fund as always.

I am looking at an investment horizon of at least 3-5 years (with any realignment if necessary worst case) unless something critical comes up for me.

Have identified the following funds:
Large cap
1a. Birla SL Long Term Advan. (G) OR
1b. Birla Sun Life Top 100 (G)
2. BNP Paribas Equity Fund (G)

Diversified Equity
3. ICICI Pru Exp&Other Services-DP (G)
4. Franklin High Growth Cos (G)

Mid cap
5. Reliance Small Cap Fund (G)

Need your feedback on the above funds. Should I swap them with any other funds? Any feedback on the management of these funds? Any other bucket that I should be looking into (like Infra specific hoping on the India story)?. Also, am I spreading the money too wide i.e., across too many funds?

Pl. let suggest.
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Old 14th August 2014, 22:01   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by null View Post
Planning to use direct plans

Large cap
1a. Birla SL Long Term Advan. (G) OR
1b. Birla Sun Life Top 100 (G)
2. BNP Paribas Equity Fund (G)

Diversified Equity
3. ICICI Pru Exp&Other Services-DP (G)
4. Franklin High Growth Cos (G)

Mid cap
5. Reliance Small Cap Fund (G)
I would prefer diversified/multi-cap funds. It provides the freedom for fund manager to select stocks from across the caps/sectors and maximise returns. If you feel like, you can go for one large fund and couple of diversified/multi-cap funds.

I am comfortable with fund houses like HDFC, ICICI, Franklin and IDFC. You can opt for funds like ICICI Value Discovery, HDFC Equity, HDFC Top 200, IDFC Premier, Franklin Multi Cap. You can refer to morningstar and closely look at their 5 year CAGR returns.

BTW, direct plans are of great value for individual investors. By far, one of the best moves by SEBI/AMFI to protect the investor interest.

Last edited by JMaruru : 14th August 2014 at 22:04.
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Old 14th August 2014, 22:05   #642
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Hi Guys,

Have identified the following funds:
Large cap
1a. Birla SL Long Term Advan. (G) OR
1b. Birla Sun Life Top 100 (G)
2. BNP Paribas Equity Fund (G)

Diversified Equity
3. ICICI Pru Exp&Other Services-DP (G)
4. Franklin High Growth Cos (G)

Mid cap
5. Reliance Small Cap Fund (G)

Pl. let suggest.
Please consider Quantum Long Term Equity (good returns, low expenses), PPFAS (diversified value fund) and for large-cap - ICICI Pru Focused BlueChip.
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Old 17th August 2014, 15:08   #643
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Has anyone opened an account with Myuniverse (Adtiya birla group). They offer a product where all your bank account and credit card details are consolidated into a single snapshot and also offer online mutual fund account.

How safe is it?

Any first hand experience?
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Old 20th August 2014, 18:58   #644
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Originally Posted by JMaruru View Post
I am comfortable with fund houses like HDFC, ICICI, Franklin and IDFC. You can opt for funds like ICICI Value Discovery, HDFC Equity, HDFC Top 200, IDFC Premier, Franklin Multi Cap. You can refer to morningstar and closely look at their 5 year CAGR returns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akj123 View Post
Please consider Quantum Long Term Equity (good returns, low expenses), PPFAS (diversified value fund) and for large-cap - ICICI Pru Focused BlueChip.
Why is Birla Sunlife MF not quoted by either of you? Their funds (which I have listed) were rated well on Moneycontrol & the returns were decent too... hence this question.
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Old 20th August 2014, 22:23   #645
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Why is Birla Sunlife MF not quoted by either of you? Their funds (which I have listed) were rated well on Moneycontrol & the returns were decent too... hence this question.
Please do not look solely at Moneycontrol.

For mutual funds, Value Research and Morningstar are much, much better.

Around 5-7 years ago, I lost a lot of money due to Moneycontrol because Way2Wealth's advisers kept recommending from there and invariably those funds all tanked. Some of those mutual funds are nowhere to be seen right now. The problem with Moneycontrol I think is that they rate solely based on short-term performance. Mutual funds on the other hand are a long term product needing an investment horizon of at least 5 years.

IIRC, Birla Sunlife does have a few good funds, just not the ones you suggested, such as Frontier Equity and Dynamic Bond. Its been a long time since I invested with BSL so you might want to check that again.

The suggestions that others have made in response to your previous post are generally all good.

Last edited by nowwhat? : 20th August 2014 at 22:29.
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