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Old 4th September 2011, 12:36   #16
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
OT

Not sure about Magna or Mascot as they are purely C2H firms.

Ness ..... does not outsource.

How I know - no brownie point for guessing why I know


C2H - Other drawbacks
1. once you get salary at premium than industry, it is difficult to get back into the right band.
Well not sure where to put this company then. They always call me an my friends up to schedule an interview with them after which they get the passed ones interviewed by PayPal and then send them packed off to work in PayPal Chennai location.

And they have this unique requirement that candidates come with their Board mark sheets which they will keep once the offer letter is issued. They say they will return it once the guy joins.
Hence the words "Plague"

Not sure about getting the premium salary too. Might happen in US but in my company permanent employees get more.
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Old 4th September 2011, 12:52   #17
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Well not sure where to put this company then. They always call me an my friends up to schedule an interview with them after which they get the passed ones interviewed by PayPal and then send them packed off to work in PayPal Chennai location.
They are in a different but slightly better category. They are into services industry with their own projects and clients BUT also do outsourcing to other Product companies. Ness, Tech Mahindra, Wipro, TCS all of them do this. Such companies are not that bad as they don't fire their employees if things go bad. They are not ONLY into body shopping.

Typically they have enough bench strength to provide people to other Product companies but when they don't, they just hire people for particular client of theirs. I know because we used to have contractors from Tech Mahindra working on our projects with us and sometimes they'd ask us to interview people who weren't employees of Tech Mahindra yet. However, all of them who worked with us were very happy with Tech Mahindra and were working for them for long long time.
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Old 6th September 2011, 13:37   #18
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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b) While I do not want to sound critical I am afraid the lustre of money made you jump without doing your homework. Look before you leap is a by word in today's world.

d) Do NOT mention names of officials you dealt with either in the sub-contractor Future Focus or at Wipro. If they note that you are voicing your opinion on a public forum you could lose your job.

Yes a good hike in the compensation was an incentive, and i did do some home work. What was told to me by the Focus guys is that once my background checks and verifications are through, i will be onboarding Wipro and this would take around couple of months. Apart from this of course they would have ample time to monitor my performance. And look before i leap i did, i didnt expect a company to go back on their word after issuing an offer letter. However, yes if i would have come across an article/post like mine maybe i would have taken a different decision. This exactly is the intention of posting this here with the names etc so that it benifits others too.

When i was looking for information, I could not find many reviews. Hopefully someone else would find it now. Meanwhile they have asked me to wait for a couple of days again and they would be out with some news for me soon.
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Old 6th September 2011, 14:09   #19
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Originally Posted by heavy_foot View Post
Yes a good hike in the compensation was an incentive, and i did do some home work. What was told to me by the Focus guys is that once my background checks and verifications are through, i will be onboarding Wipro and this would take around couple of months. Apart from this of course they would have ample time to monitor my performance. And look before i leap i did, i didnt expect a company to go back on their word after issuing an offer letter. However, yes if i would have come across an article/post like mine maybe i would have taken a different decision. This exactly is the intention of posting this here with the names etc so that it benifits others too.

When i was looking for information, I could not find many reviews. Hopefully someone else would find it now. Meanwhile they have asked me to wait for a couple of days again and they would be out with some news for me soon.
heavy_foot, you wanted a senior person's perspective and you got it. Well, looks like you believe that you checked all the right boxes but still wound up in this situation. Believe me I do sympathise. But I would still advise you to be discrete on a public forum.

What you experienced is not unheard of in the IT industry. Companies (esp. body shoppers) are known to retract their offers. Top organisations retracted scores of offers made during the recession and even postponed joining dates of those candidates whose offers were not revoked.

Any ways, good luck to you.

Cheers!
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Old 6th September 2011, 14:16   #20
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
heavy_foot, you wanted a senior person's perspective and you got it. Well, looks like you believe that you checked all the right boxes but still wound up in this situation. Believe me I do sympathise. But I would still advise you to be discrete on a public forum.

What you experienced is not unheard of in the IT industry. Companies (esp. body shoppers) are known to retract their offers. Top organisations retracted scores of offers made during the recession and even postponed joining dates of those candidates whose offers were not revoked.

Any ways, good luck to you.

Cheers!
Many thanks for your inputs and concern Sir. I agree with everything you said and i took a risk and it has backfired now. I agree that organizations have retracted their offers many a times. I personally know of someone whos campus offer was retracted during the recession times. I feel these companies ought to compensate accordingly and they should not just wriggle out of the situation.
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Old 6th September 2011, 14:34   #21
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

H_F, sorry to know about your situation and I can completely understand your situation as I deal with these type of situations on a regular basis.

I use the services of companies like Magna, Kelly and other CSG resource companies ONLY for an emergency or fill up a contingency plan that didnt go according to our forecast.

However, the companies like Wipro, TCS etc are dependent on their end-client for whom they are hiring. so its like a cascading chain and if the top link for some reason breaks, it effects the entire chain.

End-customers use SI's ( Wipro, TCS etc) like any normal vendor and same goes for Wipro, TCS who use smaller companies like Magna, Kelly etc and treat them the same way the SI's get treated. You know the normal customer-vendor relationship.

In all this, the individual resource for whom all this activity is happening gets crushed and in big firms as them people dont have the time nor interest to listen to the woes of an individual, its sad but true aspect of how this business functions.

Contract to hire is usually accepted by 3 types of people.

a) Who are in a hurry to get into a job
b) Someone wanting to work with a brand ( Google, Microsoft etc)
c) Someone who doesnt get a permanent offer despite trying for too long

Dont worry, market for techies is good. Keep trying and you should hit the sweet spot soon enough. Goodluck !!!

Last edited by mobike008 : 6th September 2011 at 14:35.
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Old 6th September 2011, 14:39   #22
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

@heavy_foot, it is truly an unfortunate situation to be in. I have experienced this as my campus offer was retracted during the 2001 recession. The retraction itself was not bad, but the manner in which it was done was totally unprofessional.

Unfortunately this has also impacted me in other ways, notably in trusting any offer from any organisation. I usually treat these with suspicion as I have already been bitten once.

@ R2D2, I would appreciate some advice from you in my case too.
I have been working for the last 8 years and now have an offer from another reputed company for a permanent role. What are the primary things I should verify before tendering my resignation in my current organisation? Is an email offer letter sufficient or should I insist on one on their official letterhead?

I dont want to end up tendering and then withdrawing my resignation later.

I cant help it but be suspicious so would appreciate any advise from you and from other bhpians
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Old 6th September 2011, 14:45   #23
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Originally Posted by heavy_foot View Post
Meanwhile can any senior guys advise what can i do to make sure these guys dont get away with somebody's incompetence at their end ? Can i ask for a compensation ? Can i do somthing else ? Needless to say i am looking for other jobs in the market as i have little faith in their promises.
A little bit OT, but have you visited this thread? If not, please do. You never know, you might find something of use in it.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...thread-56.html (The "Jobs available in my organisation" thread)

Apart from what others on this thread have mentioned, the only advice I can give you is to move on. It's good that you have learnt your lesson and opened this thread so that others will be cautioned, but now it's time to use your energies to find a good job. Sh** happens - so don't let this episode make you bitter. If you have confidence in your abilities & don't lose hope, there's no reason why you can't get a job soon. Good luck!

Cheers,
Vikram

Last edited by comfortablynumb : 6th September 2011 at 14:50.
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Old 6th September 2011, 15:04   #24
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

heavy_foot : Extremely sorry to hear your situation. I was also in that situation some years back. But things changed later. Wishing you luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I have been working for the last 8 years and now have an offer from another reputed company for a permanent role. What are the primary things I should verify before tendering my resignation in my current organisation? Is an email offer letter sufficient or should I insist on one on their official letterhead?

I dont want to end up tendering and then withdrawing my resignation later.

I cant help it but be suspicious so would appreciate any advise from you and from other bhpians
Congrats sir !! I need a ride in the nano!

If I may - some of my suggestions with my experience (Have been into both permanent and contractual jobs)
Till know I did tender my resignation on the basis of email offer letter. Most of the companies give the hard copy during the induction and also the appointement letter. Now the situation of IT market is fairly okay. So, I think email offer would suffice. Hard copy would be more benefitial. All the best.

Before joining I preferably look at the following points:

1. Renowned Organization
2. Stable Job.
3. At End Of The Day, Money Matters! And it should be a significant gain.
4. Your Role should be critical.
5. Travel preferences.

The above varies from person to person

Last edited by mikon : 6th September 2011 at 15:08. Reason: quote
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Old 6th September 2011, 20:15   #25
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
The retraction itself was not bad, but the manner in which it was done was totally unprofessional.

Unfortunately this has also impacted me in other ways, notably in trusting any offer from any organisation. I usually treat these with suspicion as I have already been bitten once.

@ R2D2, I would appreciate some advice from you in my case too.
I have been working for the last 8 years and now have an offer from another reputed company for a permanent role. What are the primary things I should verify before tendering my resignation in my current organisation? Is an email offer letter sufficient or should I insist on one on their official letterhead?
Hi selfdrive, congrats on the new job offer.

Most of the 'advice' that I will provide is practical and not written in any book and comes from many, many years of managing very large delivery teams with several hundred people.

I don't blame you for being suspicious given your previous experience. But we all need to be very cognizant of the fact that any IT or other company is a business first and employer second. Business needs dictate nearly everything a company does. Even the much ballyhooed CSR is most to win goodwill starting in local communities and extending beyond that. It generally earns a company good press. Now with all this in mind here are a few things that you could do:

a) Assuming you are satisfied with the location, salary and other benefits - get in touch with their recruitment team/HR and inform them that you intend to join by a particular date. Try to make that date AS EARLY as possible from the date of offer which will reduce the chance of any change of heart. So, negotiate with your current employer to relieve you early enough so you can join the new organisation. Most companies are willing to reduce notice periods if there is no strong dependency on the person. And believe it or not, line managers have a large say in reducing your notice period.

Most importantly - leave on a good note, request your manager to stand as a reference. All large companies employers do background verification checks and that includes calling your manager. This is more so in your case as with 8-10 years of experience (assumed from your post) you would be going in for a pretty senior role. A background check going wrong could be a painful experience.

b) Do a bit of background checking - if you have friends or acquaintances in the company, ask about the company, its culture, business prospects and HR policies. Ask about the bench size and projects in your particular tech area, any business challenges, layoffs etc. A very small or very large bench is a danger sign.

c) The IT industry may be vast but news, especially negative, spreads very, very quickly. HR and Recruitment teams, Managers have very good networks across different companies i.e in the industry. Therefore be careful of how you conduct yourself with the company that has hired you and with your current employer. Bad mouthing your current or past employers will NOT win you any brownie points and more often than not - backfire on you.

Wish you all the best! Do let us know how things turn out.

Cheers!

Last edited by R2D2 : 6th September 2011 at 20:17. Reason: typo
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Old 6th September 2011, 20:57   #26
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Hi selfdrive, congrats on the new job offer.
Most of the 'advice' that I will provide is practical and not written in any book and comes from many, many years of managing very large delivery teams with several hundred people.
Thanks a ton for the pointers R2D2 sir! I can totally relate to the concerns you have raised.

I have already ensured points b and c. While this is only the second time I will be resigning, I learnt from some experiences of my ex team and colleagues when they resigned (most of it in the Do not attempt at home/ office kind!)

The HR person has also been told by me that I will join their organisation but till they send a formal offer (sometime later this week hopefully) I will be unable to confirm by email/ writing. I have also informed them of my notice period duration and that I will attempt to negotiate the notice period only on receipt of a formal offer letter, but this is only an attempt.

I guess it is a case of wait and watch now, I will put up an update as soon as something concrete happens.

@heavy_foot, I am sorry to have hijacked your thread for my purpose. I do wish that you find the relevant job soon.
During my job hunt, when prospects looked bleak one of my friends told me something which I found useful. If some offers/ attempts dont work out it could be because there could be something better down the line for you. Remember it is always darkest before the dawn. I guess after we have put in our best, we can only learn from where we fall short.
Sorry for the gyaan too
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Old 6th September 2011, 21:15   #27
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

Last year, my company (or rather, my unit) absorbed 100% of the people working on contract basis.
They were using services of (I think), msource (or something like that), Seed infotech etc. Can anyone post a list of reputed companies like this in their experience ? May help in future.

@Selfdrive sir : Welcome to Hinjewadi (we will be very disappointed if we dont have you here. ).
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Old 7th September 2011, 11:09   #28
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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@Selfdrive sir : Welcome to Hinjewadi (we will be very disappointed if we dont have you here.
Arre yaar sajo, shubh shubh bolo!
How do you know I will be in HJW when even I dont know yet?

By the way, if I do end up in HJW without company transport, I will have to ask your company bus to allow me in too. I hope they can make an exception for the relevant monthly charges

It is great to know your company absorbed all contractors. As pointed out earlier by others totally depends on how the business plans pan out. Not every organisation has the knack/ luxury of making permanent business out of temporary contracts.

Last edited by selfdrive : 7th September 2011 at 11:12.
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Old 12th September 2014, 17:32   #29
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

*Bumping up an old thread*

I got an offer from a company Bristlecone and I was told that I will have to work at their client's XYZ (very reputed client) location. I asked them, whether its a contract position, they said no, its not a contract position, you will be a permanent employee of Bristlecone, not XYZ. Your shift allowances and transport would be paid by the XYZ. Bristlecone is a CMMI Level 5 company and are they playing with words and actually offered to hire me for a C2H position?

P.S:- I did not accept the offer.
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Old 12th September 2014, 18:32   #30
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Default Re: IT - Contract to Hire / Contract 2 hire jobs ? Beware.. Don't even think about it

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*Bumping up an old thread*

I got an offer from a company Bristlecone and I was told that I will have to work at their client's XYZ (very reputed client) location. I asked them, whether its a contract position, they said no, its not a contract position, you will be a permanent employee of Bristlecone, not XYZ. Your shift allowances and transport would be paid by the XYZ. Bristlecone is a CMMI Level 5 company and are they playing with words and actually offered to hire me for a C2H position?

P.S:- I did not accept the offer.
My advice is to check which company prints your offer letter. You would belong to that company. There is no way a company can give an offer letter on behalf of a third company (at least to my knowledge). So read the details and scan for some fine print somewhere!!
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