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Old 22nd September 2011, 23:49   #106
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^This is a classic case of missing the wood for the trees, looking at the fuel cost alone. Even that would go haywire the moment you replace the Dio with a Splendor! And if you include the total ownership cost to calculate the per KM cost, a two wheeler will simply blow the car away.
With diesel cars close to matching the 2-wheelers on Rs/km basis, those intangible factors I spoke about - much more comfort, aircon, safety, free from dust & smoke, no fear of rain etc might take priority - again as I said before, these are valued differently by different people.

Now, not to start a debate on cars vs bikes here, but this approach makes sense if you already own a diesel car and a bike - using the car seems to make more sense, as was the case with my friend.

If I do switch to a Splendor, and if it gives me 60kmpl in the city, it works out to Rs.1.16 per km (nearly half of my scooter, but then again i'd miss the gear-less drive in the city!) - the car would cost Rs.1.50 more per km in fuel costs alone. Now in the narrow perspective, Rs.1.50 per km extra will fetch all the above mentioned comforts/benefits over a 2-wheeler - and most of the people will look at it from this perspective I believe (hence greater demand for diesel vehicles and manufacturers commanding a higher (justified??) premium over petrol vehicles.)

switching over to the broad perspective, of course there is the higher upkeep cost of the car over the bike - and that's a price to pay for those intangibles mentioned above whose value differs which each person.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
The present difference between the cost of Petrol and Diesel is unsustainable and somewhere in the future Diesel car owners will lose their pound of flesh. All calculations, including re-sale, will go for a six then.
I agree that diesel prices (and fuel prices in general) have nowhere to go but up, I don't see the gap between diesel and petrol prices decreasing rapidly anytime soon - till then, diesels still hold the advantage wrt running costs.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I feel it would be imprudent to change an existing, good petrol car just for the fuel price difference.
Couldn't agree more. Like noopster said, once the car is bought (sunk cost) it's mostly the visible running cost that hits you. and this is what makes people trade their petrol cars for diesels - when they could have extracted the maximum usage from it first and go for a diesel upgrade later.

It must be that special feeling that you get at the fuel pump when filling up diesel that is making people do this??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt
And if one really cannot bear the petrol price then CNG conversion is the best way to save some bucks instead of selling the current car and getting a diesel.
The cost of the conversion and the lack of CNG refilling stations here in Kerala is proving to be a deterrent here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
but the petrol price was not allowing me for long drives. Hence finally decided to move to a diesel car and ended up with Dzire.
Again, when shopping for a car, suppose one saves Rs.75,000-Rs.1,00,000 when buying a petrol variant over a diesel one. Now as arun said above, if you are planning to go on vacation/long drive, the petrol bill calculation would unsettle you even though you spent less in the first place whereas opposite holds true for diesel, peace of mind because you spent more in the first place - it's the manner in which most of our minds think (well I would think like that anyway) and ultimately that's the decision maker when choosing b/w petrol/diesel variant.

Last edited by Games Goblin : 23rd September 2011 at 00:04.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 01:36   #107
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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
I see the opportunity to buy some extremely desirable cars at drool worthy prices. FE be damned! .Seriously.. I think this is the perfect time for anyone looking to buy a used car as a second car or a weekend car. You can get some really good examples at throwaway prices.

For all other practical purposes, you gotta have a diesel mill at home.
Totally agree.

Actually even I spared a few brain cells to that chain of thought.

Given that my own Indica V2 Lxi Petrol was selling for a paltry 40k despite being in good condition with only 35k kms on the odo.

I kind of even made a list of cars that I should / could buy. The maybe even have a cosmetic mod, or even spend some more and convert it into a convertible top down sedan...

Unfulfilled dreams ...

But then most cars - which are REALLY good cars (or considered good cars) have not had any significant change in their re-sale prices.
E.g. Zen, City, Civic, Esteem, Accord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
I love to go on long drives and thanks to the congestion in cities the car is become a tourer only. considering the usage "petrol" is for sure going to burn a hole in the pocket esp on long drives..

but the good factor is i dont have a emi on this car!
Only thing is occasional maintenance which i need to worry about.

that said what will be a scenario if i want to pick a diesel vehicle which is about 8+lacs?

- 11+k of emi even after putting about 2lacs of down payment
- close to 1.8lacs on interest, i,e for 5years
- And obviously sell off the existing Petrol car for a very low price

The above is my scenario and going by the way it looks above i still feel holding on to my petrol car as it will be far reasonable!

am sure many are in the ame state as me, what will one do in a scenario like this?

Sell or retain???
.

I may not be the most ideal person to comment here ...

But exactly ditto echoing your thoughts ... to the T.

Non-emi car, only maintenance, love driving... everything ditto.

But ...

I just sold off my 2005 Indica V2 Lxi (Petrol) with a meagre 35k on the odo, and some upgrades.
I had some ambitious plans for a make over. Ditched it all with the fuel prices & FE.

Have a booked a Celebration Special Edition Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet for 9.13L
- 15k cash discount - 25k exchange discount - 40k of the Indica (sob).

Should arrive soon.

Just mentioning my take. & yeah, I put my money where my mouth is.

Last edited by .anshuman : 24th September 2011 at 14:07. Reason: Back to Back post within 30mins, Please use Multi-quote button when quoting more than one post. Thanks
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Old 23rd September 2011, 01:48   #108
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Default Re: Does it makes sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
I kind of even made a list of cars that I should / could buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
But then most cars - which are REALLY good cars (or considered good cars) have not had any significant change in their re-sale prices.
I'll give you a list of car's which has really taken a beating.

For startups.
  • Fiat Palio ~1L
  • IKON 1.6, 1.3 ~under 2L
Budget Sedans
  • Fiesta 1.6 ~2-3L
  • Optra 1.6/1.8 ~under2L
  • RS Petrol (Not really budget apart from buying) ~3-4L
Sedans
  • Civic ~5-6L
  • Superb
  • Accord
These are the ones that come to mind in these two minutes, but I'm sure there are lot more. Also, I guess for fellow members, using these vehicles, it makes super sense to retain the car, and buy another diesel hatch, as selling it in the current condition does not make much sense considering the amount they generate-void they create, for the next buy/upgrade.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 01:58   #109
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Default Re: Does it makes sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post


I'll give you a list of car's which has really taken a beating.
  • Civic ~5-6L
  • Superb
  • Accord
.
That was a nice quick list.

But ... the Palio is WAAAY less than 1L. A friend has it. Getting an offer of 40k max. And ofcourse the maintenance issues.

The list mentioned above - that has REALLY caught my eye.

This was what I was talking about.

There is already an awesome thread by GTO about pre-worshipped Civics.

&
I really had this wild idea - the old Accord (2nd gen)
You can get 1 for around 6-7L max.

Spend another 1.5-2L
Convertible - with a soft-top.
Rims, Paint job (bright red or pitch black).
A few more bells and whistles.
And voila - a LOOKER of a car, lovely comfort, awesome drive, no maintenance.

ENJOY!
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Old 23rd September 2011, 10:28   #110
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Default Re: Does it makes sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
&
I really had this wild idea - the old Accord (2nd gen)
You can get 1 for around 6-7L max.

Spend another 1.5-2L
Convertible - with a soft-top.
Rims, Paint job (bright red or pitch black).
A few more bells and whistles.
And voila - a LOOKER of a car, lovely comfort, awesome drive, no maintenance.

ENJOY!
Not to mention a permanent place in the 'Weird & wacky mod-jobs thread'!

Modifying an Accord into a convertible will ensure that the car loses it's strength and integrity, no matter how much you beef up the chassis and pillars. You are basically toying with a great car, and destroying it by ripping it to shreds. Modifying an Accord into a convertible will prove to be a very bad move, in no time. The car will squeal and rattle since the original structural integrity of the car has been tampered with. The driving-dynamics of the car will be affected, thus giving you a horrible ride/drive.

And no maintenance!? Apart from maybe visiting the workshop every other day in order to get the squeaks and rattles to stop, continuously making alterations and changes, till one day you get fed up and dump it in a yard. At which point, a keen BHPian will take pictures of it and put it up on one of our threads and make an absolute mockery out of it.

Don't. Do. It. Please.

P.S. I hope Akshay1234 isn't reading this.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 23rd September 2011 at 10:29.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 11:31   #111
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

Arun and Suraj, very true.

for me what is stopping me is my present car is still in good condition(TW) and selling it wont fetch me much.

other hand for a 8lac car my emi wil be about 11k with putting 2lacs on downpayment and interest rate after 5years whch wil be about 1.5lacs+

so am planning to use this car for some time...
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Old 23rd September 2011, 12:49   #112
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

How exactly is paying 1L+ in one go (getting a Diesel car) better than spending the same amount in monthly installments (Petrol bills)?

I have a 5 yr old Accent 1.5 Petrol, and it drives better than any comparable car, hell drives better than some of the newer 'neutered for fuel efficiency' hatches/sedans. Perfectly maintained, no EMIs, only fuel + regular maintenance.

Why would anybody want to trade that in to get a more expensive car, less fun to drive, and costs more overall anyway?

Nobody's saving anything by switching to Diesel. You've already paid the price in one go (and will probably never recover it unless you drive much more regularly), while the Petrol guys pay it in monthly bills, while enjoying the ride all the way. And a person who's agonizing over fuel costs won't really enjoy the diesel either, because that urge to cut costs never goes away. (If I saved X by using the petrol car less, I can save X+Y by using the diesel less too)

So diesel car owners, think about this the next time you smile smugly at the Petrol car owner at the adjacent pump. We're all paying the same price, just in different ways. All that matters is how much fun we get out of it.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 13:14   #113
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao
So diesel car owners, think about this the next time you smile smugly at the Petrol car owner at the adjacent pump. We're all paying the same price, just in different ways. All that matters is how much fun we get out of it.
And ofcourse while petrol-car owners can choose when to pay the price, diesel-car guys have paid it way upfront, whether they use it or not later.

@GamesGoblin, as Gansan mentioned, getting a FE-bike changes your case-stufy altogether. I would suggest you get a car (diesel being your pref) and use the car or bike based on what need is. Long drives with friends or long drive in the city, take the car. For short rides use the bike.

BTW, if I were you, I would have long ditched that Dio - too inefficient for a bike. Our old KineticHonda sounds like a great bet when compared to the Dio, which is supposed to be newer gen.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 13:35   #114
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Default Re: Does it makes sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Ah! come on guys we are getting confused between the love for our car and the hatred for the increase in fuel prices. Would we change our GF/wife just because she spends too much?
+1, Well Said Anil. Damn the petrol prices. We have one life. Lets enjoy to the core with the smooth ride.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 13:44   #115
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

Yes perfectly

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
And ofcourse while petrol-car owners can choose when to pay the price, diesel-car guys have paid it way upfront, whether they use it or not later.
On the dot! esp for people in our case it will be double blow, i may be saving on fuel bills but for 5 or xyears i will be paying x amount of emi i use the car or dont, +the maintenance will get added slwoly..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
How exactly is paying 1L+ in one go (getting a Diesel car) better than spending the same amount in monthly installments (Petrol bills)?

I have a 5 yr old Accent 1.5 Petrol, and it drives better than any comparable car, hell drives better than some of the newer 'neutered for fuel efficiency' hatches/sedans. Perfectly maintained, no EMIs, only fuel + regular maintenance.

Why would anybody want to trade that in to get a more expensive car, less fun to drive, and costs more overall anyway?

Nobody's saving anything by switching to Diesel. You've already paid the price in one go (and will probably never recover it unless you drive much more regularly), while the Petrol guys pay it in monthly bills, while enjoying the ride all the way. And a person who's agonizing over fuel costs won't really enjoy the diesel either, because that urge to cut costs never goes away. (If I saved X by using the petrol car less, I can save X+Y by using the diesel less too)

So diesel car owners, think about this the next time you smile smugly at the Petrol car owner at the adjacent pump. We're all paying the same price, just in different ways. All that matters is how much fun we get out of it.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 14:23   #116
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by Games Goblin View Post
"what if a drive a diesel hatch instead of my scooter?"
Thats a nice comparison with a two wheeler.
On a related note, a diesel hatch is cheaper than city Volvo. For instance, my colleague travels 15 Km one-way & the ticket cost is Rs 45. The same if covered by diesel hatch costs (15*2.65) ~ Rs 40. (Note the bus-pass factor negates this).

Coming to the thread question, the answer is easy for a car that has both diesel & petrol variants loaded with similar features (say i20). But for cars with only petrol variants (say City), people chose them in spite of being petrols and unless they find those benefits in diesel cars, they won't switch.

Last edited by msdivy : 23rd September 2011 at 14:25.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 16:27   #117
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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If I do switch to a Splendor, and if it gives me 60kmpl in the city, it works out to Rs.1.16 per km (nearly half of my scooter, but then again i'd miss the gear-less drive in the city!) - the car would cost Rs.1.50 more per km in fuel costs alone. Now in the narrow perspective, Rs.1.50 per km extra will fetch all the above mentioned comforts/benefits over a 2-wheeler - and most of the people will look at it from this perspective I believe (hence greater demand for diesel vehicles and manufacturers commanding a higher (justified??) premium over petrol vehicles.)
I'm also in the same situation but i still prefer to use my bike than my diesel car.Reasons
1) To travel a 40 kms a day through heavy traffic i need to spend 30-40 mins more in my car somedays it may become 2+ hrs. (ya true with heavy traffics accidents are unavoidable and often creates long queues)
2)i hate Lugging my car in 1st and 2nd as there is a big gap between first and second ratios which force me to use 2nd only and is not good for the car.
3) Risk of scratchs, dents ,dings in the car is way too high due to reckless two wheelers and cabbies.

I was thinking to replace my bike with a more FE one , but it wont have the power to do a quick overtake which my pulsar can and the small tires and suspension is not good for the back :( and also i'm confused on downgrading the bhp.

Earlier i used to travel early and leave late in car but now i cant sit around when my work is finished.

Last edited by bullboy : 23rd September 2011 at 16:33.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 17:30   #118
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

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Originally Posted by bullboy View Post
I was thinking to replace my bike with a more FE one , but it wont have the power to do a quick overtake which my pulsar can and the small tires and suspension is not good for the back :( and also i'm confused on downgrading the bhp.
Dont even think about it. You will get disgusted and sell it off within a day. I have experienced it. That too straight from a P220 DTSi to a Splendor of my cousin. I sold my P220 and needed a bike in the interim. Borrowed the Splendor+ of my cousin. Vowed never to buy a bike below 150cc ever in my life after riding it for a week.

And that too you are used to the P180. So please think 100 times - no make that 1000 times before you buy a bike for FE.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 18:08   #119
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Smile Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

Imagine a scenario where diesel prices become equal to or greater than petrol prices in the future...

Now I chanced upon an article in Top Gear UK that led me to wonder what would happen if diesel prices become equal to or greater than (which is the case in UK) petrol prices.

First, let's look at the fuel prices in UK

Unleaded 95: 136.9 p/L = INR 104.10/Liter
Diesel: 140.9 p/L = INR 107.14/Liter

source WhatGas.com - (I Clicked on a Shell Fuel Pump near Cambridge and the prices were dated 22/09/11 for both diesel and petrol. Used Google calculator for converting the prices to INR)

diesel is Rs.3/Liter more than petrol

This is the article I read:

Volkswagen Scirocco GT 2.0 TDI - Top Gear UK

Even when diesel is more expensive than petrol in the UK, the article says that the Diesel Scirocco is cheaper to own and run than the petrol one.

Some excerpts from the article

Quote:
So how do you justify buying a quick petrol coupe in a high-ish tax band, at a time when the economy is <in a bad state>...

Easy, just put a diesel in it.

You get all the gorgeousness of the petrol version, with just a little less guilt and a few more notes in your wallet. Some might say ....... a diesel somehow dilutes its brand.

It doesn't. It's .... not as quick as the 2.0-litre TSI ... but it's just as sharp and certainly not slow. Throttle response is about as instant as it gets in a diesel.

.....this one's 500 quid cheaper, two tax bands lower and cheaper to run. What more justification do you need?
Okay, now three things here -

- the article says that the diesel version is cheaper than the petrol variant

- it gets tax concessions

- and that it is more economical to run than the petrol one


Now the first two points are not true here in India. But, if diesel prices do become equal to or greater than petrol prices, then the price difference between diesel and petrol variants will rapidly decrease - because, if the diesel variants were to stay priced the same way like now, there would be no takers for them

See the price chart of the VW Scirocco in the UK

Name:  Price Chart.jpg
Views: 474
Size:  144.9 KB

Source: TopGear

- The base model diesel is 735 more than the base petrol
- The top end diesel automatic is cheaper than the top end petrols

So, I'm guessing the petrol-diesel variants might be priced this way in India if the prices of fuel were to reach parity. So that would mean two points would hold true in favor of diesel cars - don't think we'll ever get tax concessions on cars

So, diesel cars won't completely lose out to petrols in the costs to run game.

I certainly don't think my predictions will be 100% true....but the future certainly is not bleak for diesels.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 20:37   #120
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Default Re: Does it make sense to retain petrol cars, considering the frequent fuel hikes?

In my view if you are a middle income guy who drives a car in the sub 5 lakh range, all the maths states that your expense will be 10-11k a month on a new car and 7-8k on a second hand car that you buy between 2.5-3 lakhs.

So taking the above into consideration, I have just accepted the fact that car means 10k a month, plus or minus 1k, this is relavent to people who average about 500-800kms a month and a yearly average of about 8-10k kms averaged at yearly spend with a 3-5 year view.
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