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Old 23rd October 2011, 00:04   #46
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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Originally Posted by ijeet View Post
Wow we got so many bleeding hearts here, maybe because those big cats were not in our backyard. We were not in danger of being killed /mauled. Anybody here has any idea how much big cats can travel in one night. Tracking dozen of cats (Who are out of their comfort zone and perhaps more scared than the people around) is not an easy and if I may say so extremely dangerous task so leaving potential dangerous and may be hungry big cats around while troopers arrange tranquilizer guns is not very wise decision.

Regarding tranquilizers guns, they are not so easily available like your run of the mill air guns at corner Wal-Martí. They are not some sleeping pills put in a syringe which pussy cat will come and eat. They are not very long range weapons which require trained vets to be around when used.

I donít think it would have been an easy decision for the guys in command there but I donít see any other way around. Regarding tigers going extinct, US got more tigers than INDIA. Tiger is not going extinct in zoos or private collections and never will be. Tiger is a prolific breeder which multiplies every 2 year so there will always be tigers in zoos and private collections. If you are so concerned about tigers going extinct then do something about vanishing jungles, contrary to popular belief hunting or even poaching is not the reason for tiger going extinct loss of habitat is. So next time you go to a swanky resort allegedly made on the border of a national park think about the trees which were felled to make your stay comfortable while you think you are doing a service to tiger cause.

-Ij
you bring up a lot of good points here Think of what would have happened if one of the big cats ended up mauling someone or even killing a person(s); then it would have been a whole different matter. Many a lawsuit would have been coming down the pike for the state of Ohio and any lawyer with half a brain would have no trouble winning the case for their client. Sadly, putting those animals down was the right thing to do. Fish and Game/Wildlife wouldnt have the specific tranquelizers on hand anyways and most likely only stock ones particular to that area and what species inhabit that area.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 00:16   #47
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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I am an American and i take offense at your whole "double standards" statement. In fact it is because of the very rights of freedom and democracy that this man was allowed to keep these animals. Granted i am also of the opinion that the state shouldnt have let a mentally unbalanced man keep such animals; i.e they belong in a proper habitat. Unfortunetly the laws in Ohio are lax on this sort of thing. In fact, a tougher law had just expired and the new Governor had not renewed the law. Now put yourself in the shoes of the local law enforcement personnel, who are used to dealing with maybe a deer or mountain lion or two, and not something like a Bengal Tiger roaming around in the backwoods. These animals when they got loose, unfortunetly presented a danger to people and had to be dealt with. I doubt even the local Wildlife service keeps the types of tranquelizers needed to bring down these types of animals safely on hand. How are they supposed to know that these animals arent man eaters?
I am amazed at the kind of attitude that most americans have. Seriously. You never criticize yourself for any of your mistakes. You have the courage to say that a law that lets people keep tigers and lions as pets in a cage is a sign of freedom and democracy? Thats the problem. Your freedom, your democracy, your everything. Others can go die and you would not give a rats tail to there rights. I am seriously amazed by your statement. If the authorities were so ill-equipped to handle such a scenario then they have no right to make such a law where animals like the wild cats can be kept as pets. Ofcourse you will get cases like these where these animals might get loose and pose an immense threat.

Anyways lets take this over pm from here as I don't want to convert this thread into an anti american or somthing. The purpose of this thread was to just highlight the lack of emotions, respect and care that we humans have developed off late.

Edit: As an after thought there is a defense mechanism which humans use sometimes. Its called rationalization. I see a lot of it happening now a days. Do google it.

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Old 23rd October 2011, 00:40   #48
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
You have the courage to say that a law that lets people keep tigers and lions as pets in a cage is a sign of freedom and democracy? Thats the problem. Your freedom, your democracy, your everything.

Edit: As an after thought there is a defense mechanism which humans use sometimes. Its called rationalization. I see a lot of it happening now a days. Do google it.
It's not the law, but the lack of a law that you should be blaming. And Ohio did respond with an action on that.

Laws are never perfect, ever evolving, and almost always reactive. Remember that list of antiquated laws that still exist? Top Craziest Laws Still on the Books | LegalZoom

I have lived in both countries, and I would rather stay quiet on a discussion on personal freedom in any of these countries.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 08:47   #49
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

off track, but same incident.
here's some inputs from the public:

Will they be selling the meat? The man's, I mean. I could never eat an elephant.
Brandi Washburn
Systems Analust



'What kind of idiot opens a taxidermy shop in Zanesville?' they all said. Well, ha, ha, suckers!
Scott Ludington
Taxidermist



all sourced from The american Voice.


Apparently it wasnt a choice made.Trank guns were not available with the PD



ps:boy, there are some disturbing pics floating around on the interweb.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 08:57   #50
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Agree with everything you say.
Except for the backhanded opening statement.
Not everyone is action oriented,yes, but it doesnt mean you need to stay quiet.
Nothing backhanded in that statement sir, That is the reality. I have seen people abandoning thier pets on whiff of some trouble. I have experienced people cribbing when you bring a new puppy home, just because its crying at night. There are numerous other examples, some are already posted in this thread showing how people of our beloved country behave when encountered with same situation. Tolerence level of people everywhere is same you just can't blame Americans for that. In my opinion they are way better than us when it comes to managing wild life. More on that later because that will go out of scope of this thread but if you want to know about that, Please read about Ducks unlimited.


On trranqulizing, Where you going to keep them once they wake up? Most zoos allover the world are already short on funds. They will not take these cats citing reasons like history bloodline etc again they will end up at some private collection or ngo like Tiger Haven. What if the new owner also behave like current owner.

I don't think its as simple a matter as ut sounds. If you ask me I am happy poor cats are not going through life long impriosnment. They are resting in peace somewhere.

-Ij
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Old 23rd October 2011, 09:08   #51
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
It's not the law, but the lack of a law that you should be blaming. And Ohio did respond with an action on that.

Laws are never perfect, ever evolving, and almost always reactive.
Well lets hope that such incidents do not take place in the future ever, anywhere on the planet.
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I have lived in both countries, and I would rather stay quiet on a discussion on personal freedom in any of these countries.
Yea I agree. Lets not let emotions run high and start a my country vs your country thing and lose the original message.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 12:48   #52
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

Few months back, 1 elephant in the morning of a normal day in Mysore resulted in the whole city being shut-down for half a day. Forest officials spent 4 hours (7AM to 11 AM) to track the elephant & shoot few tranquilizers and by that a time a curious onlooker was stamped by the startled elephant.

Imagine 50+ wild animals roaming around. Tranquilizers' effect last just few hours - what after that, unless all the animals are moved back in cage. Nobody plans for such eventuality. I don't see any other way of tackling this event - other than prior counselling the owner & monitoring his mental health.

And I don't know how one person's insanity can be generalized on a nation.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 14:34   #53
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I am amazed at the kind of attitude that most americans have. Seriously. You never criticize yourself for any of your mistakes. You have the courage to say that a law that lets people keep tigers and lions as pets in a cage is a sign of freedom and democracy? Thats the problem. Your freedom, your democracy, your everything. Others can go die and you would not give a rats tail to there rights. I am seriously amazed by your statement. If the authorities were so ill-equipped to handle such a scenario then they have no right to make such a law where animals like the wild cats can be kept as pets. Ofcourse you will get cases like these where these animals might get loose and pose an immense threat.

Anyways lets take this over pm from here as I don't want to convert this thread into an anti american or somthing. The purpose of this thread was to just highlight the lack of emotions, respect and care that we humans have developed off late.

Edit: As an after thought there is a defense mechanism which humans use sometimes. Its called rationalization. I see a lot of it happening now a days. Do google it.
Well you started the Anti-Americanism...so i felt complied to reply to it.

If this guy who kept these animals had lived, he would have definetly been prosecuted. I think it is very democratic of the state of Ohio to let someone keep these animals. Now whether that is right or wrong is a different matter. Personally i dont believe these animals should have been kept like that as it was quite inhumane. I also think the state is quite stupid in letting anyone with a mental condition anywhere near these types of animals, let alone being allowed to keep them.

You failed to see this situation from an Ohio resident's point of view. What if one of these animals, majestic and beautiful as they may be, ended up killing or severely injuring someone and the state either hadnt done anything about it or couldnt put them down safely in time. Then what would have happened? Or if the tranquelizer had worn off; because i can assure you that the local authorities wouldnt have had the neccessary tranquelizers for these kinds of animals due to them being on private property. So instead of taking issue with all Americans or America in general, you could have taken issue with the specific Ohio law, which was too lax.

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Old 23rd October 2011, 15:02   #54
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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I think it is very democratic of the state of Ohio to let someone keep these animals. Now whether that is right or wrong is a different matter.
I still fail to get it seriously. Democracy as I understand is that a person is given the freedom to do as he feels like, right of speech, right of protest, right to have a say in the functioning of society et all but given that it follows certain principles laid down by the society in line with the traditions and culture prevalent in those times. So are you suggesting that letting someone keep these animals as pets is a way of democracy? That way smoking weed should also be pretty legal right? Or is it already too ( I am not sure now). I can site many more such examples but I hope you got the point I am trying to make. This isn't democracy. You have to draw a line as to the rights of a citizen. You have to weigh the pros and cons of every right that you are giving to the people. And allowing such animals to be kept as pets and then assuming that none of them will ever escape leading to such a situation is very immature at best.

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So instead of taking issue with all Americans or America in general, you could have taken issue with the specific Ohio law, which was too lax.
My apologies if you saw it as anti-american. It was as you put it anti-ohio law which allowed this mess to happen. There are many issues where I am anti-american and even larger number of issues where I am pro-american and all praises for that country. So don't treat my post as Anti-american or something. I would have equally protested ( rather even more) against my own govt if they had made such a law.

Last edited by drmohitg : 23rd October 2011 at 15:05.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 20:14   #55
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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I still fail to get it seriously. Democracy as I understand is that a person is given the freedom to do as he feels like, right of speech, right of protest, right to have a say in the functioning of society et all but given that it follows certain principles laid down by the society in line with the traditions and culture prevalent in those times. So are you suggesting that letting someone keep these animals as pets is a way of democracy? That way smoking weed should also be pretty legal right? Or is it already too ( I am not sure now). I can site many more such examples but I hope you got the point I am trying to make. This isn't democracy. You have to draw a line as to the rights of a citizen. You have to weigh the pros and cons of every right that you are giving to the people. And allowing such animals to be kept as pets and then assuming that none of them will ever escape leading to such a situation is very immature at best.


My apologies if you saw it as anti-american. It was as you put it anti-ohio law which allowed this mess to happen. There are many issues where I am anti-american and even larger number of issues where I am pro-american and all praises for that country. So don't treat my post as Anti-american or something. I would have equally protested ( rather even more) against my own govt if they had made such a law.
I get the point you are trying to make, but in this case, it was a state issue and the guy was free to exercise his rights as he saw fit.

Americans like to keep pets, that is a tradition and part of American culture (I have a wonderful Jack Russel Terrier back in the States). They are free to keep pets but most states have laws restricting the types of pets they can keep. I know for a fact that permits must be taken to keep certain types of Iguanas, for example. What i am saying is that the guy keeping these animals was exercising his freedom in keeping them, according to Ohio state law. Now i personally believe he shouldnt have been able to keep them because A. of the laxity of the law and its few restrictions and B. He was mentally disturbed. Unfortunetly, the law at the time partly allowed this to happen. Maybe the culture in Ohio is different that other states, im not really sure.

You talked about "assuming they will never escape". The problem with this statement is that government treats private property as private property and would expect that person to adequately keep and care for those animals, in this case. I am willing to give the Ohio government the benefit of the doubt on this point. How were they supposed to know that the guy would let the animals out and THEN shoot himself?
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Old 23rd October 2011, 21:39   #56
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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Americans like to keep pets, that is a tradition and part of American culture (I have a wonderful Jack Russel Terrier back in the States). They are free to keep pets but most states have laws restricting the types of pets they can keep.
We all love to keep pets. I myself have a lovely 8 year old labrador. The thing is you need to draw a line as to what all animals can be kept as pets. Even if you argue that may be the US govt doen't care whats happening to the numbers of these fast declining majestic wild animals. But even then they should atleast see that these animals might be injurious to others and the govt has to respect there right to security also I guess.
I really don't see why someone is allowed to keep lions, tigers and cheetahs still. Next in line is what? A great white shark perhaps!

Quote:
You talked about "assuming they will never escape". The problem with this statement is that government treats private property as private property and would expect that person to adequately keep and care for those animals, in this case. I am willing to give the Ohio government the benefit of the doubt on this point. How were they supposed to know that the guy would let the animals out and THEN shoot himself?
All I will say to this is to quote what your secretory of state Hillary clinton had to say in her pakistan visit and I quote: You(pak) cannot keep snakes in your backyard and then expect it to bite only your neighbour.

The same logic applies here. There are always mishaps. Someone accidentally opens the cage, some natural disaster takes place like a earthquake/floods and somehow the animal manages to escape. I don't see how is it so tough to see this threat before passing such a law.
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Old 24th October 2011, 00:23   #57
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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We all love to keep pets. I myself have a lovely 8 year old labrador. The thing is you need to draw a line as to what all animals can be kept as pets. Even if you argue that may be the US govt doen't care whats happening to the numbers of these fast declining majestic wild animals. But even then they should atleast see that these animals might be injurious to others and the govt has to respect there right to security also I guess.
I really don't see why someone is allowed to keep lions, tigers and cheetahs still. Next in line is what? A great white shark perhaps!


All I will say to this is to quote what your secretory of state Hillary clinton had to say in her pakistan visit and I quote: You(pak) cannot keep snakes in your backyard and then expect it to bite only your neighbour.

The same logic applies here. There are always mishaps. Someone accidentally opens the cage, some natural disaster takes place like a earthquake/floods and somehow the animal manages to escape. I don't see how is it so tough to see this threat before passing such a law.
Many states have drawn a line as to what kind of pets can be kept (see my example on Iguanas), but it seems Ohio was lax on this. The law, or the lack of it, is what is the problem here and sadly many animals had to pay the price. Well the state government was right to assume that this man had adequate security and safety in place for the animals. Im sure SOMEONE from fish and wildlife would have gone out there to see the animals and the subsequent arrangements before issuing the permit or license. Now if they didnt, then that is something that needs to change. Now should they have planned ahead for unforseen circumstances, yes. But this was one of those freak incidents that happens once in a blue moon and i dont think you can fault the state for that.

You cant say the US government doesnt care about majestic animals; hell i believe the US has the most number of national parks and protected areas for animals compared to other countries, and as an animal lover, i think that is a fact that you can appreciate . I would have rather had these specific animals kept in a zoo or animal park though, with people who would care for them and nuture them. I saw many of these wonderful animals at the San Diego Wildlife Park as a child .
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Old 24th October 2011, 06:07   #58
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Default Re: 18 tigers, 17 lions killed

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hell i believe the US has the most number of national parks and protected areas for animals compared to other countries, and as an animal lover, i think that is a fact that you can appreciate .
US does not have the most number of national parks.
Link: List of national parks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US does not have the most number of protected areas as well.
Link: Protected area statistics - countries compared - Nationmaster
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