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Old 10th January 2012, 18:41   #46
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

I took wanted to join the NDA and become a fighter pilot. Being the only son, my dad gave me only one chance to attempt the NDA exam. Unfortunately i could not make it then.

I still feel the pangs of regret, when i hear the Sukhois flying, but i know that the chances of me joining the IAF and then qualifying the high physical standards of a fighter pilot would have been very very dim. But it is still a good armchair dream.
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Old 10th January 2012, 19:25   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace F355 View Post
Good question, Rohan. If I may ask, what exactly are the parameters for quality of life for you?

The way, I see it, quality of life is defined by

- Money: isn't it all about money at the end of the day? Armed Forces have grown quite a bit after sixth Pay Commmission, in terms of salaries and perks. I know this for instance, the salary part is not the best part of someone from Armed Forces. The best part is the quality of services being offered to them at minimal expenses.

- Awe-inspiring moments and excitements: This is, single handedly the only thing that defines quality of life for me. Adventure and doing things that makes you feel special. And anybody from Armed Forces will tell a complete list of such saga which he has been through.

Any Armyman will have entertaining stories of his life to tell. Why? Because civilians can not even imagine to be in his shoes at those times!

And btw, if club memberships and playing golf doesn't reflect quality of life, I am curious to know what does? I hope, flying a $25 million Mirage 2000 fighter jet qualifies for reflecting the quality of your life!

- Respect: Do I even have to mention the feel good factor of serving your nation's defence services?

About boys growing into men: I think you should watch that NDA documentary on youtube. You will get what we are on about here. I will post the link after reaching home, I do not have access to youtube from my office.

Just googled it, try this one for starters.
My parameters for quality of life is irrelevant to this discussion.

I am interested to know what is it that Armed Services provide, which is labeled as quality of life. If it matches my parameters, I would also encourage my kids to join the Armed Forces.

As far as 6th pay commission salary is concerned, the same salary structure is applicable to all Central Govt departments like Banks, Post Office, Railways, CPWD, PSUs and many more. What are the additional perks provided by the Armed Forces ?

What you call awe-inspiring moments, I call cheap thrills. I am no adrenaline junkie, this factor doesn't excite me. I'm not saying that I am right or you are wrong, its just that different people may feel differently about the same thing.

I don't see why defence personnel should command any additional respect than any other govt employee. I equally respect people working in Banks, Post Offices, Railways, colleges, hospitals, courts and other Govt departments. People from all departments are doing their respective duties towards the society. People from one particular department should not blow their own trumpet and pretend as if they are elite members of society.

If you consider your subordinate's salute as a mark of respect, then you are highly mistaken. That salute comes out of fear and compulsion, it is not a mark of respect.

Flying a costly aircraft is a matter of pride, why ? Does the pilot own that aircraft ? Has he designed any component of that aircraft ? He is simply operating something which has been designed by someone else and purchased by someone else. It is like saying that a BMTC bus driver is proud that he is driving an expensive Volvo bus. (Pardon me for the crude comparison, but it drives home the point)

I saw the NDA video, I am still unclear on boy to man conversion. All I could get from the video was some boys getting up early morning to do physical exercise and later sleep in the lecture sessions, and their professors have no problem with students sleeping in their class. What I conclude from this video is that our nation is being guarded by people who can't even remain awake in a lecture.

Rohan
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Old 10th January 2012, 19:51   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post

I am interested to know what is it that Armed Services provide, which is labeled as quality of life. If it matches my parameters, I would also encourage my kids to join the Armed Forces.


Rohan
Hi Rohan

You have made some hard hitting points. What are your parameters for Quality of Life?


Rgds n respects

Last edited by GTO : 11th January 2012 at 16:20. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 10th January 2012, 20:19   #49
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@Rohan
Sure, everyone is doing their duty. But none of the others are expected to pledge their life towards their duty and the nation. That alone makes a man in uniform special.

I do wish military service is made compulsory in India for a specific period after graduation.

Am I right in assuming you are an IIT grad from your handle? If so, the stock of IIT has dropped considerably in my book after reading your irreverent post.
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Old 10th January 2012, 20:24   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
My parameters for quality of life is irrelevant to this discussion.

I am interested to know what is it that Armed Services provide, which is labeled as quality of life. If it matches my parameters, I would also encourage my kids to join the Armed Forces.

As far as 6th pay commission salary is concerned, the same salary structure is applicable to all Central Govt departments like Banks, Post Office, Railways, CPWD, PSUs and many more. What are the additional perks provided by the Armed Forces ?

What you call awe-inspiring moments, I call cheap thrills. I am no adrenaline junkie, this factor doesn't excite me. I'm not saying that I am right or you are wrong, its just that different people may feel differently about the same thing.

I don't see why defence personnel should command any additional respect than any other govt employee. I equally respect people working in Banks, Post Offices, Railways, colleges, hospitals, courts and other Govt departments. People from all departments are doing their respective duties towards the society. People from one particular department should not blow their own trumpet and pretend as if they are elite members of society.

If you consider your subordinate's salute as a mark of respect, then you are highly mistaken. That salute comes out of fear and compulsion, it is not a mark of respect.

Flying a costly aircraft is a matter of pride, why ? Does the pilot own that aircraft ? Has he designed any component of that aircraft ? He is simply operating something which has been designed by someone else and purchased by someone else. It is like saying that a BMTC bus driver is proud that he is driving an expensive Volvo bus. (Pardon me for the crude comparison, but it drives home the point)

I saw the NDA video, I am still unclear on boy to man conversion. All I could get from the video was some boys getting up early morning to do physical exercise and later sleep in the lecture sessions, and their professors have no problem with students sleeping in their class. What I conclude from this video is that our nation is being guarded by people who can't even remain awake in a lecture.

Rohan
Rohan

Agree with what you wrote about different people's different feelings.

Few points from my side:

- You don't want to share your side on quality of life, your choice. Without knowing that, it will be kinda pointless for me to explain each and every thing.

- About cheap thrills, your preferences might be little different. Tell me something exciting that you have done and I will see how we can be on the same page. Please tell me at least one thrilling moment from your life.

- Regarding respect for every Govt. and non-Govt. department, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Then, why extra respect for defence personnel? Well, for starters, it comes naturally in our society. Defence people are not elite, even than they are respected out there. Hard to explain really! You know why, because every thing has its role to maintain a certain system in our society. All departments serve the society, and hence each person's job has an unique importance. It comes down to priorities of the services. For any nation to stand by its own, its self-defence is the first priority IMO. Who does that? Not you not me! The responsibility comes down to those brave-hearts who have chosen serving their nation by defending its borders. Now, bus, railways, postal services are also equally important but they do not hold the candle for a moment if safety of the system they are running in is compromised by any means.

- The aircrafts do not belong to the pilots, and they are not flying for fun. They are there for a purpose. A serious purpose! Apart from patriotism, why pride in flying aircrafts? Well, practically; simply because only a handful are given an opportunity to do that. Its like feeling proud to be in top 10 IITians in India, and you know better why they should feel proud. Because they have achieved their goal and there will be a queue for companies to hire them up. Now if you say why there will be a queue for them, simply because they are ELITE and top 10!

- Salute is not only a mark of respect, it also comes under procedures for greeting, courtesy, code of conduct etc. in Armed Forces. Forces have to stick to an ubiquitous way to do the same.

- Not clear in the video, may be true in that particular film. Growing into men means start taking responsibilities, I guess you know this simple meaning. These young boys are taught not only disciplined way of living life, but also are made credible for the job they will be responsible for; our nation's defence that it. And the quality of the training is of such high standards, it actually brings out the best out of those young kids.

I hope I made the things a bit transparent. Also, please keep in mind that this thread is actually been created to encourage the kids to join Armed Forces. My humble request will be not to write anything just for the sake of arguments.
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Old 10th January 2012, 20:32   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace F355 View Post
Rohan

. Also, please keep in mind that this thread is actually been created to encourage the kids to join Armed Forces. My humble request will be not to write anything just for the sake of arguments.
I agree. Rohan has a point of view but the thread is was create an awareness about a career in the AF for future generations. I am not saying JOIN THE AF !!

I did not want to flame this thread having started this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
@Rohan
Sure, everyone is doing their duty. But none of the others are expected to pledge their life towards their duty and the nation. That alone makes a man in uniform special.

I do wish military service is made compulsory in India for a specific period after graduation.

Am I right in assuming you are an IIT grad from your handle? If so, the stock of IIT has dropped considerably in my book after reading your irreverent post.
Worth caliberating. There is so much venom in the two posts that he has made.

Note from Mod : Please use EDIT button if your posting within 30 minutes from one post to another. Next back to back post will attract infraction. Kindly read the rules before proceeding. Thanks

Last edited by mobike008 : 10th January 2012 at 21:44. Reason: merging previous post
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Old 10th January 2012, 21:02   #52
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
@Rohan
Sure, everyone is doing their duty. But none of the others are expected to pledge their life towards their duty and the nation. That alone makes a man in uniform special.

I do wish military service is made compulsory in India for a specific period after graduation.

Am I right in assuming you are an IIT grad from your handle? If so, the stock of IIT has dropped considerably in my book after reading your irreverent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanduchitnis View Post
Worth caliberating. There is so much venom in the two posts that he has made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanduchitnis View Post
I agree. Rohan has a point of view but the thread is was create an awareness about a career in the AF for future generations. I am not saying JOIN THE AF !!

I did not want to flame this thread having started this.
Relax guys. You see, it isn't always easy to explain things correctly in the virtual world. I would look at Rohan's post in that way.

@ nanduchitnis: We know your intentions about initiating this thread. I am thankful to you for the vision.

I personally want anyone to read this thread and get pumped up, not look at irrelevant discussions and think this is all the same bullsh*t written everywhere. Would like more inputs from first hand experienced guys on the forum. One way to do it will need some organization. I am posting the official websites for the three divisions here.

Official website of Indian Air Force
Official Website of Indian Army
Indian Navy

All three websites are self explanatory and are providing elaborative details on the procedures for joining. Anyone interested, please have a look. All the best.
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Old 10th January 2012, 21:04   #53
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Dear Rohan, my answer to you are in bold below!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
My parameters for quality of life is irrelevant to this discussion.

True that, we all have our own parameters, so there is no point in having a discussion if Army life is better than a civil life. If the OP feels that the quality of life in army is better than the civil then he has the right to express and you have the right to give a re-buttal.

I also feel the quality of life in the army is better and I shall try to answer your points as the way I think


I am interested to know what is it that Armed Services provide, which is labeled as quality of life. If it matches my parameters, I would also encourage my kids to join the Armed Forces.

Armed forces is an organisation that provide a sense of discipline and respect which in turn leads a good quality of life. I shall try to exp[lain with subsequent examples

As far as 6th pay commission salary is concerned, the same salary structure is applicable to all Central Govt departments like Banks, Post Office, Railways, CPWD, PSUs and many more. What are the additional perks provided by the Armed Forces ?

To name a few:-
1. Club facilities (try swimming/ golfing/squash/ play cards even and etc etc at a civil club and then do the same at an army club. You will be amazed to see how much you would save being in the forces. Benefits??
2. medical scheme (NHS) for you and for the spouse even when you retire
3. canteen facilities ( try and compare an OTR of a 10Lakh car, you will know what I mean)
4. Excellent Food ration while you in service
(Amul cheese and all)


What you call awe-inspiring moments, I call cheap thrills. I am no adrenaline junkie, this factor doesn't excite me. I'm not saying that I am right or you are wrong, its just that different people may feel differently about the same thing.

I don't see why defence personnel should command any additional respect than any other govt employee. I equally respect people working in Banks, Post Offices, Railways, colleges, hospitals, courts and other Govt departments. People from all departments are doing their respective duties towards the society. People from one particular department should not blow their own trumpet and pretend as if they are elite members of society.

Yes you are right when you say no job is better than the other, each is the same and has to be done for smooth functioning of the society.

But I think our armed forces do deserve a little more respect because

1. They do not come home to sleep with their families every night like most people in the other jobs do. Nor does he come home to nice hot home cooked food every night!!

2. They spend time and effort in inhospitable conditions in forward areas, in bunkers, always being under the threat of artillery bombardments, gun fire, air raids etc etc in the heat of summers in jaiselmer or the severest of winters in Siachin. While most of the people at other jobs (or why jobs, people like us also) would complain if we dont have a proper roof or an A/C or a heater at home

3. Men in the armed forces save people from the other jobs from terrorists, insurgents etc etc

4. They are called in case of floods, famine, earthquakes, train collisions, kid falls in a ditch etc etc. Basically any situation, and they do their job remarkably well. Why are people from the bank/ psu's/ hospitals etc etc not called?? Because they know army has a chain of command and discipline. With the army most probably the work will be done but with others it will be a chaos

They are not elite, nor they are superior, but they do their job and lot of other jobs force on them and get the job done.

For me anybody who does his job diligently should get more respect than the person who does not. Ever tried anything done from the Indian Bureaucracy??


If you consider your subordinate's salute as a mark of respect, then you are highly mistaken. That salute comes out of fear and compulsion, it is not a mark of respect.

I dont think fear is the right word. Even if it is then even in the jobs you have mentioned there is always "that fear" of your senior hence the work is done in an organization.

In case of Army, I would say its more out of respect than fear. I seriously don't know how to give examples, I guess you just have to be in the set up to feel the respect. Mind you its both ways seniors do give their juniors respect as well.

Ok Ill try an example : Every time a junior salutes a senior, the senior maybe an immediate senior or the GOC or the GOC-In-C or the COAS, most of the times the junior would get a salute in return. I think thats showing mutual respect


Flying a costly aircraft is a matter of pride, why ? Does the pilot own that aircraft ? Has he designed any component of that aircraft ? He is simply operating something which has been designed by someone else and purchased by someone else. It is like saying that a BMTC bus driver is proud that he is driving an expensive Volvo bus. (Pardon me for the crude comparison, but it drives home the point)

No the pilot does not own the aircraft nor the driver owns the bus!! But the responsibility of flying such an expensive and a state of the art machinery, be it a volvo or a Sukhoi gets the pride in you.

I dont know about you but if I know that my organisation has entrusted me with it because I am good at it, it will indeed instill pride in me
.

I saw the NDA video, I am still unclear on boy to man conversion. All I could get from the video was some boys getting up early morning to do physical exercise and later sleep in the lecture sessions, and their professors have no problem with students sleeping in their class. What I conclude from this video is that our nation is being guarded by people who can't even remain awake in a lecture.

I have not seen the video nor I will, but yes the term "boys to men" is true in certain aspects.

Its all about leading a disciplined life. When a guy comes out of NDA/IMA at an age of 18/21 he will be easily spotted in a crowd of few who have not been thru these insitutions

He will be well groomed, properly shaven, wearing a proper attire for a function in the evening. Not many 20 yr old's believe in that. Way of Life??

Forever in life he will be on time for his meetings and maybe the first one's to arrive at civil functions. Respect for time, yours and mine?

At gatherings while most of his college mates/ people of same age group would be drinking themselves silly he would be happy with a drink or two. Discipline?

There is no harm in paying stress on physical exercises in the forces. Specially when you have to work in inhospitable conditions. Anyway a healthy body will always be good for you when you get old!!


Rohan

Last edited by deky : 10th January 2012 at 21:11.
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Old 10th January 2012, 21:15   #54
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I saw the NDA video, I am still unclear on boy to man conversion. All I could get from the video was some boys getting up early morning to do physical exercise and later sleep in the lecture sessions, and their professors have no problem with students sleeping in their class. What I conclude from this video is that our nation is being guarded by people who can't even remain awake in a lecture.

Rohan
You will see the difference between an IIT grad and a NDA grad if left in the middle of a jungle without any support, or any adverse condition for that matter.

I am not saying it happens every day, I am not saying it will never happen, and I am not a D-day fanatic either. I am just trying to clarify what differentiates boys from men.

Reminds me of the army engg corp that erected the bridge in the common wealth games in 2 days or so, when it crumpled even before the games had started.

I don't know how much you understand about international politics and economics, but armed forces plays a lot bigger role in establishing a country's authority and well being than just engaging in a war. The least you could do is plead ignorance rather than blabber your views.

About your vision of armed forces, you might want to consider that a bus driver has to rarely dodge missiles and make split decisions to save the lives (literally) of his country men or his own squadron. Not to mention experiencing multiple Gs of gravity and mantainig fitness level for that. Ditto for other govt servants. The NDA video is a just snapshot of the life in NDA. I am pretty sure I have seen worse about IIMs and IITs . I have a brother from IIT and a close friend from NDA. I was a reject from both!

Personally, I find the system in US much better where almost everybody I meet has served in AF for sometime, and they come out prepared for civilian life just because again, almost everybody they meet has served in AF, and they don't feel left out. In India usually careers are considered lifelong, and that may be a part of the problem. You are either a serviceman, or you are a civilian.

EDIT:
Quote:
If you consider your subordinate's salute as a mark of respect, then you are highly mistaken. That salute comes out of fear and compulsion, it is not a mark of respect.
This got me thinking, could you give me an example of a salutation that you may have received out of respect?

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Old 10th January 2012, 21:49   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I don't see why defence personnel should command any additional respect than any other govt employee.....If you consider your subordinate's salute as a mark of respect, then you are highly mistaken. That salute comes out of fear and compulsion, it is not a mark of respect.
While you are entitled to your views on this topic, I would just like to point out the reason why the salute is a mark of respect and not fear.

That reason is the motto which is inscribed in the Chetwode Hall at the IMA, Dehradun - "The safety, honour and welfare of your country come first, always and every time. The honour, welfare and comfort of the men you command come next. Your own ease, comfort and safety come last, always and every time."

Even though the IMA is an Army institution, this is the ethos which every soldier/sailor/airman, officer or otherwise, lives his life by, and which has been proven time & again by the innumerable sacrifices that our armed forces have given to safeguard our democracy and freedom.

Peace.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 10th January 2012, 22:12   #56
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I couldn't stop myself from posting here -

Well, let us not isolate and target Rohan for his post and neither Ace F355 for his posts. We all have different views and opinions and let us respect each otherís views and opinions.

If we try to put forward the +ves and -ves of each and every profession (at least in our country) then there will be 100s of posts justifying and criticizing each of them (and believe me with valid points), including Armed forces.

Each of us (in our own profession) is important to the society (you may well consider it as our country) in our own way. Itís a balance, without which all of us will suffer. Armed forces are important to our country as well as the Farmers.

Let us be practical and not be so emotional to criticize others point of view and form an opinion about an institution based on a single post (IIT or Armed forces).

-----------

I would like to thank @nanduchitnis for the initiative he took by creating a thread here. However, IMO, itíll be good if you request the moderator and update your opening post with few more points and be specific and clear about your intention here.

To me - this thread is created for a specific purpose, which is not to compare and criticize other profession, but to answer queries and help guide individuals who are interested in Armed Forces (Army/Navy/Air force).

They need not be necessarily members of this forum, but members can guide those aspirants and post the queries on their behalf.

Friends, this is an unique opportunity for Armed Forces aspirants, utilize this, browsing through website is something and getting your doubts clarified from someone who served the forces for 20yrs or more it totally different.

I am sure there are many active and retired armed forces personnel who are monitoring this thread and will be more than happy to guide you.

Please utilize this opportunity and let us not dilute the intention of this thread.

@nanduchitnis, please take the lead here to keep this thread on track.
Otherwise, itíll be like so many other threads here in Team-BHP which will end up with argument and counter argument and the primary intention of this thread will be lost.
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Old 10th January 2012, 22:46   #57
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Nice thread Chitnis sir! And since you represent the men in white and Faugi the men in OG, let me for a while represent the men in blue.

I am an officer in the air force, a fighter pilot and have flown all the aircraft mentioned in this thread so far. I am also in a position today where I am playing an integral part in the transformation of the youngsters that have made it to fighters after their basic training into fighter pilots.

A lot of interesting points have been put forth in this thread so far and Rohan's points seem to be the most belligerent. While a lot of plausible counter arguments (by many non-faugis as well) have already been put up, let me add another dimention to this argument on certain points which I feel have not been suitably answered yet.

For the record, I am not trying to belittle any one's point of view, but, trying to ensure that any reader gets a whole some perspective into what the services stand for and hence are better informed and hopefully a bit motivated to encourage people to join the AF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I am interested to know what is it that Armed Services provide, which is labeled as quality of life. If it matches my parameters, I would also encourage my kids to join the Armed Forces.
Actually, the armed forces provide a whole lot of things that can be called "quality of life", but the major problem in penning it down is that most of it is inanimate. Let me try and put it this way, there is no other service which trains you to be an officer and a gentleman. There is only so much that money can buy. The rest needs to be imbibed. The services provide you with an opportunity to do just that. And if one spends sufficient time and energy just being alive and recipient in this environment, you change as a person. You enjoy things in life that would go un-noticed otherwise. The same rubs down to your family and those around you. To put it simply, you find more "quality" in "life". Apart from this major yet often overlooked perk, the others such as clubs, CDS etc have already been mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
As far as 6th pay commission salary is concerned, the same salary structure is applicable to all Central Govt departments like Banks, Post Office, Railways, CPWD, PSUs and many more. What are the additional perks provided by the Armed Forces ?
Factually incorrect. While the basic pay structure is the same in all Central Govt departments, only the members of the armed forces get the Military Service Pay, and while the amount may be called paltry by the IT pros here, it counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
If you consider your subordinate's salute as a mark of respect, then you are highly mistaken. That salute comes out of fear and compulsion, it is not a mark of respect.
TOTALLY INCORRECT!! Let me get this point straight...we do not salute the "person." Every salute is towards the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, of whom, the senior is a representative, and when the senior returns the salute, he/she returns it on behalf of the Supreme Commander.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
Flying a costly aircraft is a matter of pride, why ? Does the pilot own that aircraft ? Has he designed any component of that aircraft ? He is simply operating something which has been designed by someone else and purchased by someone else. It is like saying that a BMTC bus driver is proud that he is driving an expensive Volvo bus. (Pardon me for the crude comparison, but it drives home the point)
It is a matter of pride because you are at the helm of a machine that is at the pinnacle of technology in that particular field. While for someone who has grown up in an environment where the Volvo bus was your definition of cutting edge technology, for others like me, sitting in the Mirage 2000 cockpit, with afterburners blazing and pulling a 9G downward combat turn is more like it!! (Pardon me for the crude comparison, but it drives home the point)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I saw the NDA video, I am still unclear on boy to man conversion. All I could get from the video was some boys getting up early morning to do physical exercise and later sleep in the lecture sessions, and their professors have no problem with students sleeping in their class. What I conclude from this video is that our nation is being guarded by people who can't even remain awake in a lecture.
On the contrary, what you failed to notice is that even after sleeping through classes, these guys are able to complete a bachelors degree and learn all it takes to be an officer and a gentleman!!

O.K. that was in jest...for the record, the maximum number of failures in NDA is generally in academics!!

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Old 10th January 2012, 23:00   #58
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Worth caliberating. There is so much venom in the two posts that he has made.
I for one don't see any venom in Rohan's post. If anything, he has the courage to speak up his mind and articulate his rational views.

I come from a family where 60% of my father's generation served in the armed forces. So I do know a thing about two about the men in uniform. But I will not get into the merits or demerits of joining the armed forces. My objection is to the viewpoint that one job/vocation is better than the other. I don't recall any dentist or doctor or lawyer or businessman or software programmer or car tuner starting a thread about getting their children to join their profession. What makes you think that what you do is superior to or better than what others do? Infact what gives any parent the right to decide what their children should do? Let your children decide where their interests lie and then give them your full support, irrespective of your personal prejudices. That is your responsibility as a parent, to encourage your children in finding their calling and then supporting their decisions wholeheartedly, even if they want to be a chef or a hairdresser.
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Old 10th January 2012, 23:17   #59
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I have nothing against armed forces. It is a good career option, my uncle is in IAF. I would be happy if my son chooses to join the forces and would be equally happy if he chooses another profession. I did consider it once however I knew I wasn't athletic enough to endure it.

Rohan has put very valid argument. I don't know why are we shying away from argument and constructive discussion. If the topic doesn't welcome valid arguments then why post in a public fora.
Every profession deserves respect and armed forces shouldn't be any different, most importantly if one feels respect seeing and armyman and not to an honest banker,honest doctor, honest nurse or an honest judge then I would think there is something wrong in the guy/gal. A banker and an engineer are equally important for nation building as a soldier. An engineer is not trained to dodge rocket and a soldier is not trained to design automobiles or maintain accounts. So we can really compare the two professions.

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
You will see the difference between an IIT grad and a NDA grad if left in the middle of a jungle without any support, or any adverse condition for that matter.
So one should join NDA to learn survival skills in a jungle?

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
I am just trying to clarify what differentiates boys from men.
I am confused, is it the Royal Enfield Bullet or the NDA training that differentiates boys from men?

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Reminds me of the army engg corp that erected the bridge in the common wealth games in 2 days or so, when it crumpled even before the games had started.
So we don't need engineering firms now? Army engineering corp was pulled in because their expertise lies in doing the job on war footing and the previous one fell because of utter corruption and mismanagement not that there aren't firms capable of building bridges.

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I don't know how much you understand about international politics and economics, but armed forces plays a lot bigger role in establishing a country's authority and well being than just engaging in a war.
Its not the army alone that is required for well being of the nation otherwise pakistan wouldn't be what it is today.

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
The least you could do is plead ignorance rather than blabber your views.
What can I say. I am surprised to see this phrase as a part of your argument.

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
About your vision of armed forces, you might want to consider that a bus driver has to rarely dodge missiles and make split decisions to save the lives (literally) of his country men or his own squadron.
A bus driver is not trained to dodge missiles nor am I but he is responsible for the lives of people sitting in his bus and those on road.

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Personally, I find the system in US much better where almost everybody I meet has served in AF for sometime, and they come out prepared for civilian life just because again, almost everybody they meet has served in AF, and they don't feel left out. In India usually careers are considered lifelong...
Conscription was removed in 1973 in US, its voluntary now. If it is voluntary how is it a "system". In india we have short service commission.



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"The safety, honour and welfare of your country come first, always and every time. The honour, welfare and comfort of the men you command come next. Your own ease, comfort and safety come last, always and every time."
This should be one of the principles of each and every one of us and not only of the armed forces.

Last edited by huntrz : 10th January 2012 at 23:19.
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Old 10th January 2012, 23:32   #60
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Originally Posted by huntrz View Post

So one should join NDA to learn survival skills in a jungle?
You very conveniently skipped the sentence following this one. I am not going to take this thread any more off topic than it already is.

Quote:
I am not saying it happens every day, I am not saying it will never happen, and I am not a D-day fanatic either. I am just trying to clarify what differentiates boys from men.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 10th January 2012 at 23:45.
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