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Old 11th January 2012, 20:37   #121
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Smile Re: Joining The Armed Forces

Wow, so many posts, mostly irrelevant w.r.t. the intention of this thread. Ya, I know this post of mine too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
This would be my last post on this thread.
Cool down man, your posts had some valid points and same with other posts too.

The fact is, Armed Forces are respected more in our society and probably rightly so in some sense. There is no harm in this.

Consider the school teachers/professor. They also do their job, what kind of salaries they used to get (10yrs back) ? Hardly any facilities but still they are respected in our society, why ? His students even after 10-15 yrs probably earning many times more money, will touch his feet (out of respect), but the same student will never do this to his corporate manager or his boss right ! Doesn't mean the boss is wrong etc but the fact is teachers get more respect.

We are quite matured enough to understand the importance of Armed Forces and other Professions to our society, nobody is doing a small or bigger job, and no one is doing charity, getting into an IIT is not for everyone, same way flying a fighter jet and sitting inside a tank is also not for everyone.

All profession have their +ves & -ves, corruption is present in every profession, everybody don't get the chance to play golf, or save enough money to buy an appt. in a prime location in one of the top Indian cities after retirement, club membership is not important to all, similarly few people out there choose their profession based on passion/dream where the materialistic facilities - however important they are in reality becomes secondary for them, some of them goes into armed forces and happy to be spending weeks 24/7 in -50C to safeguard our country border, some become dr. and treat poor patients free of cost, it’s an individual choice we need to respect that.

Last year when I went to my hometown, a very close relative of mine showed me the photos of the handover function of the anti-submarine warship they (GRSE@Calcutta) built and delivered to the Indian Navy in 2011.

He was explaining so many things about this ship, the technicalities, electricals, how it may be used and so on, he will retire in next few months. There was no need for him to say these things, he is brilliant, holds a prestigious senior technical position in one of the very few similar organizations of India (war ship builders), but still he was saying this because the ship they built will be used by the Indian Navy. I am sure he wouldn't have told me so many things if GRSE built a ship for tourist dept. to take passengers in the calcutta-chennai-andaman route, that doesn't mean that building a passenger ship is easy. All these probably because there is respect within him for the Indian Navy which the navy earned it over the years.

There may be few comments posted but that I guess was posted in the heat of the moment and no one’s intention here is to disrespect the civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nanduchitnis View Post
My aim was very simple. Do consider Armed Forces as a career option. I had no intention of deriding other professionals who contribute to the Nation Building effort. We are an EXPENDITURE ACCOUNT we dont earn profits for the Nations. The massive defence budget HAS NEVER been debated in Parliament and passed without a whimper. This is the tax payers money and is almost 60 % of the budget. Yes it costs a lot to maintain, clothe, equip, feed us ! We are one of you and NOT some elite entities masqerading around with a holier than thou attidtude.
I am partly to blame deriding Bill Gates which was in a different context.
Will come back when sanity rules. But for now I do feel demoralised ! What the hell tomorrow is another day.
Ooops, I sensed this coming yesterday, I mean why so sentimental. OK I got your point.

But within these 100+ post I see only 3-4 relevant post in this thread w.r.t. the initiative and 2 of them in the last hour or so. I believe @Neel385 did share some useful information.

Come on Commander Nandu, where is the armed forces spirit? Few posts and you are demoralised

Please continue updating this thread with useful information, I am sure there are many interested youngster who need guidance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Sheesh, you guys too serious.

I was trying to add some levity. I saw Rohan questioning military guys why they think their job is superior. I felt it needed a punchy military reply, in Jack Nicholson style. Obviously, it doesn't answer the exact question asked.
ha ha ha your post made it serious, come on... why such serious dose for a simple answer. BTW, it's good that you didn't paste any video clips of our very own Sunny Deol though, lol !

Last edited by bblost : 11th January 2012 at 22:13. Reason: edit ...typo.
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Old 11th January 2012, 20:43   #122
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Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
To sum it all up, a flyer in the IAF starts with a pay package of close to Rs 7 lakh PA.
Thanks for the information. This is an eye opener for me.

Apart from this package, does an AF job provide medical coverage for immediate family members?

If someone retires from AF after serving for 20 years, what kind of retirement "Nest Egg" or pension does one usually build? (Assuming average growth in Ranks).
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Old 11th January 2012, 20:51   #123
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

Let me quote Ashishpallod's earlier signature here folks.

The aim of every argument is not victory but progress (or something similar).

Having said that, Dear Nandu sir. Relax. Comparing different fields is the biggest mistake anyone can do. And here in this thread too the same is happening. Takes me back to the childhood days when every parent wanted their son/ daughter to be engineer, doctor, lawyer, etc, etc., for reasons known only to them.

As I expressed earlier, I'd definitely show this also as a career option. And if she shows interest, I'd do my best to help her out. That way, this thread is a good one to help people with queries about their choices.

So while comparison between various fields itself is absurd without thinking what that individual wants to be in life, please be assured that no one is projecting you people as enemies of the state.

Have a good night and let's meet up in the Mumbai meet, which seems to be veering towards Oye Punjab on NH3!
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:21   #124
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

It has been an interesting read over the past 20 minutes and I never imagined the different turns this thread has taken. I attended my college alumni meet where one of my seniors actually took up teaching at a nearby navy station. He had some interesting information to share which I am paraphrasing. Of course since this is second hand information, it is open to correction.
1. Only Defence staff is entitled to pension, provided they are on active duty. This considering most central govt jobs do not offer pension to new entrants.
2. Per the constitution, the 3 branches and the Coast guard are entrusted with securing the borders. They will not be engaged in domestic issues. That is handled by CRPF or other units.
3. Statistically, there are more casualties outside of the three branches when you consider CRPF, Police etc. But these branches do not get the lifestlye/training/equipment provided to the AF.

Food for thought, eh?

Personally - while I have deep respect for men in uniform, recent scams have eroded it significantly. If not for the scam itself, they should be court martialled for conduct unbecoming of an officer and a gentleman. I have much much greater respect for Doctors - especially the ones slogging out in civil/govt hospitals, practicing out the Hippocratic oath within the limited means at their disposal.

Also recollect few posts relating to the salute between people in AF. Simply put, it's not a subservient action, but rather an acknowledgement between two people engaged in the profession of arms. The history is nicely explained in wikipedia.
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:24   #125
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Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
The way i see it, military is a wasteful expenditure. An institution thrust upon mankind due to our inborn instinct to mark territory & maintain boundaries.
There was a time when we were reducing our defense budget thinking military might would no longer be needed in front of economic might. As history tells us that never turned out to be a right decision. Since last decade hopefully we are again investing in modernizing our forces which is the need of the hour.

And yes this profession has honor and pride which cannot be compared with honor and pride in engineering. I do not see myself taking a bullet in my chest for someone whom i do not know, never met, and possibly will never meet in my entire life. Hence looking at men in uniform i do feel like saluting them.
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:38   #126
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Since this is a thread about convincing people practically - let's leave hyperbolic rhetoric outside the room, shall we? But I must give you a pop quiz- Who is the fastest to do the 7 summits from India? (and purportedly the world?)
So you want me to leave a rhetoric out and you refer to a record holder? seriously .

The example I gave was extreme, but such situations can be found in everyday life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
The way i see it, military is a wasteful expenditure. An institution thrust upon mankind due to our inborn instinct to mark territory & maintain boundaries.

Tax payer's money is used to maintain this institution, take care of its personnel and wait for a war that will never come. War nowadays is MAD - mutually assured destruction - so no sensible 'equal' powers will engage in it. Only by the US of A on puny third world countries to impose 'democracy'.
I have always thought about that. While we are at it, let's take out doctors, fire fighters, police etc too. Really wasteful expenditures if we could live a healthy life, not engage in crimes and have super safe buildings.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 11th January 2012 at 21:57.
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:51   #127
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

Thank you for the reply @Ace F355
I,unfortunately,am not game for LASIK.

And my parents' seem to have the edge wrt sentiments as the first counter they come up with,leaves me speech-less!
Off Topic:
I'll post this vid as I love it and many here would too
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Old 11th January 2012, 23:04   #128
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Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post
ha ha ha your post made it serious, come on... why such serious dose for a simple answer. BTW, it's good that you didn't paste any video clips of our very own Sunny Deol though, lol !
Even though Jack was the bad guy in the movie, he makes a great point which I wanted to highlight. It is a job very few can do, or like to do. I don't think I could have articulated it better than Jack. I don't support code red either, so removed reference to that from the dialogue.

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
About why the armed forces are a more honorable profession than most, well...my advice is watch that clip Samurai-san posted or better still rent the video of A Few Good Men (not that ghastly ripoff Shaurya, mind you). It is a Hollywood potboiler as you will get, but the characters are so brilliantly sketched out that you can't but help emerge with a better sense of what honour means, in a military context. I have long suspected that the makers of that movie intended..
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
you're able to say these things because you are in the comfort of the protection provided by our soldiers guarding our borders.

cause they stand on a wall and say: nothing's gonna hurt you tonight..
- A Few Good Men
Exactly my point.

I am a product engineer. But I don't think credit for winning a battle can be given to engineers more than the soldier who was on the battle field. We are merely toolmakers, who may provide tools to the soldier. Ultimately it is the soldier who fights and risks his life. If the gun/canon breakdowns or destroyed by enemy fire, the soldier will continue to fight at even greater risk, sometimes even hand-to-hand. While the engineer only risks performance reviews.

All of us hold certain things in life as sacred. Nation's armed force is usually one of them. Seen this to be true both India and USA. When somebody didn't feel the same respect, and equated it to any civilian career, it obviously shocked many of us here.

But I understand, people are different, sentiments are different. It reminds of my days in USA, where I used to get frustrated at Indians who used to change their citizenship (by taking the oath of allegiance) for the sake of traveling convenience.

Enough has been said about both side of the equation. So now it is time to re-focus on the original intent of this thread. - Support Team
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Old 12th January 2012, 00:30   #129
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Default Re: Joining The Armed Forces

Guys,

Joining armed forces is not a matter of pride or honor for some people. I know at least 5-7 people in my circle who have sent their kids to army/NDA and similar services just because of the fact that everything is free (?) in army - from food to house and off course, handsome salary packages.
The job is tough but some take it for granted.

I personally believe that there are many other things which I can do for my country to feel proud other than joining army. One example is that I went to auto expo and didn't tease the models standing along with cars while majority of guys of my age were busy doing that only. What these guys are doing is shameful act and nullifying all the efforts of our leaders, soldiers and select personalities. They are hampering the image of our country.

So as a responsible citizen of country we can just do our day to day work in a manner which don't violate social rules and doesn't hamper the image of our country. Joining army is not enough - Even army officers are accused of molestation and other severe criminal charges just like any other citizen of the country. Such people do the maximum damage.

My conclusion - don't force anyone to join any profession. I was well aware of Army benefits but still preferred IT field as I feel I can do much better in this area.
It will not do any good to motivate a person to join army who is not willing to and then he doesn’t perform his duties in the manner he should.

Let teenagers/youngsters listen to their heart and choose the field they want.

I don’t expect BHPians doing things like IIT < Army/Army < IIT or Colonel/commander < Engineer/doctor or vice versa. Why to bash someone with an odd post considering the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Let's respect them and move on!

Last edited by bluevolt : 12th January 2012 at 00:46.
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Old 12th January 2012, 10:54   #130
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
- Maybe i've seen too many movies but I don't think our top scientists recieve that sort of safety net that our top military men do - on a whole, not talking about the likes of Kalam.
Iranian scientist involved in nuclear program killed in Tehran bomb attack - The Washington Post

A scientist linked to Iranís nuclear program was killed in his car by a bomb-wielding assailant on Wednesday, a bold rush-hour attack that experts say points to a further escalation in a covert campaign targeting the countryís atomic officials and institutions.

Sounds straight out of a movie plot. But again, an army general in comparison would never have been such a soft target. no?
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Old 12th January 2012, 10:55   #131
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Thanks for the information. This is an eye opener for me.

Apart from this package, does an AF job provide medical coverage for immediate family members?

If someone retires from AF after serving for 20 years, what kind of retirement "Nest Egg" or pension does one usually build? (Assuming average growth in Ranks).
Yes, the AF will provide medical coverage for you, and immediate family members at the numerous Army/ AF/ Navy hospitals around the country. It even includes superspeciality care.

Serving in the Army for 20 years, you will probably leave as a colonel. The pension admissible to you shall be half of what your last drawn salary was. Expect it to be about 80-90k, and hence the lifelong pension to be 40-45k subject to increments in future (based on the Inflation Index).

And if you have been spending money well (saving at least 20k per month) you would have a corpus of about 60 lakh + lifelong medical benefits and a regular pension.

On the question raised by someone else about the pensions not being applicable to others, it is because the AF starts retiring you pretty early. Not all people retire at 60. Captain sir and others may correct me, but if you retire as a Col, you will probably be out of the Army by 48. A BRig will retire at 50-52. Those who make it to MAj Gen will retire at 54, Lt. Gen. at 56-58 and Gen at 60. The civilian counterparts will continue serving till 60. The pension mechanism is there to protect the interests of those who retire early (and thereby lose out on the earnings for the remaining years).

Cheers,
Tapish

PS. First helpful point by me
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Old 12th January 2012, 11:38   #132
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I have one very pertinent question.
What is the basis of promotions in armed forces?


And what happens at/after the Brig/Commodore level (I recall that the retirement age progresses with each rank after Col/Captain level, and that's what Tapish has written above).
How is it decided that Col A has to retire, but Col B gets to become Brig B
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Old 12th January 2012, 11:52   #133
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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
I have one very pertinent question.
What is the basis of promotions in armed forces?

And what happens at/after the Brig/Commodore level (I recall that the retirement age progresses with each rank after Col/Captain level, and that's what Tapish has written above).
How is it decided that Col A has to retire, but Col B gets to become Brig B
This is what I know, but it is open to correction from people actually serving in the forces.

Time bound promotions happen till the rank of Lt.Col [and equiv ranks in the Navy and IAF]. After that, there's a course that has to be taken at the Defence Services Staff College at Wellington [near Ooty], that makes you eligible for further promotions. There's an entrance exam [limited # of attempts] that has to be passed just to be eligible to attend this course. After this course is over, then further promotions are a matter of performance [present and past], any gallantry medals won, any specific expertise gained etc.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 12th January 2012, 13:20   #134
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Sounds straight out of a movie plot. But again, an army general in comparison would never have been such a soft target. no?
Hi Hitanshu!!

Army generals, especially Army Commanders, VCOAS and COAS, started getting adequate security cover only after the incident in 1986 where Gen Viadya, (PVSM,MVC,AVSM,PV,COAS) of the Indian Army was assassinated immediately post retirement.

The Indian Govt took stock of the situtaion and started to give adequate security cover to serving and retired generals as after 1984 Bluestar, the army role wasnt just limited to guarding the borders but was also engaged in doing duty fighting insurgents within the country.

I think our country does a remarkable job giving security cover to our assets who ever they think has a perceivable threat.

Oh, and no doubt sometimes we do go overboard too!!!
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Old 12th January 2012, 13:27   #135
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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
My conclusion - don't force anyone to join any profession. I was well aware of Army benefits but still preferred IT field as I feel I can do much better in this area.
Mate you have completely missed reading post no. 117 by Nanduji. Please read the relevant posts before saying the same thing after it being clarified. He has clearly mentioned that he has not created this thread to force anyone to join AF but for awareness of interested people. It was good that you were well aware of the benefits. But not all are as lucky as you to know the benefits at the outset and this thread will serve as a guide to such people.
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