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Old 26th February 2012, 17:42   #1
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Angry Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

Folks,

All of you must be aware of the details of the case. Here are some details - you can of course google up the rest:
The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : Why Norway should back down
Norway custody row: Top 10 developments
Quote:
Barnevarne, a child care service of Norway, took custody of Indian children, Abhigyan and Aishwarya, from their natural parents, Anurup and Sagarika Bhattacharya, in May 2011, when they were two and a half years and six months old respectively, and lodged them in separate foster homes. They charged the mother Sagarika with “negligence and being unable to bring up” the children. A Norwegian court had ruled that the two children would stay in two different foster homes until the age of 18 and their natural parents would be allowed to meet them only once a year for one hour. Shockingly, the court added that only if the couple separated, the custody of the children could be given to the natural father who is employed as a geo-scientist in Norway since 2007.
After an international media outcry, Norway agreed to hand over the children to their uncle in India. Earlier letters sent to the Norwegian Government by the Ministry of External Affairs reportedly on December 28, 2011 and January 5, had not elicited any response. With the visas of the Bhattacharyas to stay in Norway expiring in March, they dreaded leaving the country without their children.
While a false sense of euphoria dawns on the horizon as Norway agreed to hand over the Indian children to their uncle subject to a Norwegian District Court accepting the arrangement, larger issues prevail, raising disturbing questions. In upholding the applicability of Norwegian laws, Indian sovereignty cannot be subjugated to abdicate the majesty of Indian family laws. The precedent is, therefore, clearly wrong, and this may not be a healthy trend for the 30 million NRIs who live in 180 countries abroad. Our Constitution gives the Indian state the power to legislate on any subject. This power is reserved to us and we cannot surrender it to any foreign jurisdiction.


.....

They reportedly objected to the manner in which the children were being fed and made to sleep.

.....
The children were taken away from their parents in May last year. The staff at Abhigyan's kindergarten found his behaviour in school disturbing; child welfare representatives then visited the family regularly for five months.

They reported to a Norwegian court that Sagarika seemed "clinically depressed", though she says doctors have certified she was not depressed. They also accused her of force-feeding the children. Abhigyan was diagnosed with attachment disorder which is said to be caused by parental neglect.

....
The authorities have applied for extension of visa on their own. (Wow!!)
Norway is guilty of violating law which has global sanctity

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-hands.html:
Quote:
Indian couple have children taken away by Norwegian social workers because they fed them with their hands

Authorities also complained that the parents should not be sleeping in the same bed as their infants
As a parent, I am terribly pissed. What do you all think?

The kids' grandparents are protesting by sitting-in outside the Norwegian embassy on Feb 27-March 1 (11am - 5pm). Kindly spread the word!

Custody row: Grandparents to protest at Norway embassy in Delhi
NRI kids' grandparents to protest outside Norway embassy : North News - India Today

What I find even more horrifying is that globally there are counseling, coaching, support and all possible efforts to reform and help all criminials sometimes even the worst murderers. However, the Norwegian CPS believes that the only solution for alleged child abuse (it could just be a cultural gap, no one knows) is to separate the parents n kids for good. Not even one quote/statement mentions the possibility of "reforming" the parents and handing back custody under strict supervision. Or maybe I'm wrong - others can point me to such a link. What awesome child welfare by Norway!

Last edited by phamilyman : 26th February 2012 at 17:54.
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Old 26th February 2012, 19:41   #2
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

I agree the way they have acted looks very strange and weird to us since its totally against our cultural and societal norms. They could have and should have acted in a more humane and compassionate manner.

Having said that I also feel that one should give due importance and respect to the laws and cultures of the place where you stay. Just like our forum. I expect any newbie to diligently go through the rules. In this case the couple could have tried a bit more to know how things work in Norway.
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Old 27th February 2012, 23:24   #3
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

That said, taking away one's child for 18 years, and allowing 1 hour visitation a quarter is sheer cruelty. no?
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Old 28th February 2012, 00:06   #4
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

This is unfortunately a clash of cultures, and I suppose after this event Indians in Norway are about as terrified of Norway's Child Protection Services stealing their children, as Norwegians living in our country are terrified of their children being kidnapped or killed. The Indian government has for once woken up from it's immense lethargy, and taken multiple steps to control the situation, the latest being this: Norway NRI custody row: India rushes special envoy to Oslo - The Times of India.
Quote:
NEW DELHI: Special envoy Madhusudhan Ganapathi has been rushed to Norway to convey India's concerns in connection with the NRI children's custody row and will meet the Norwegian foreign Mminister today.

Ganapathi, secretary (West), Ministry of External Affairs, has been tasked to once again take up the matter and convey the government's views on the issue to the Norwegian authorities, official sources said.

Ganapathi is scheduled to meet Norwegian foreign minister Jonas Gahr Store to convey India's concerns over the matter involving one-year-old Aishwarya and three-year-old Abhigyan who were taken away by the child welfare officials in Norway in May last year and placed in foster care.
I am not sure how much additional pressure can be brought to bear on the Norwegians or the GoI, by sitting on a 4-day dharna outside the Embassy of Norway, apart from whatever push and pull is being exerted on the GoI by the tempestuous Ms Mamata Banerjee on behalf of the affected family. One just hopes this would not deteriorate into a game of political one-upmanship.

On a lighter vein, Ms Mamata Banerjee is soon going to enforce the "eat-with-fingers-only-or-go-to-jail-because-using-a-knife-and-fork-means-you are-a-terrorist" rule for all Norwegians who ever need to enter West Bengal.

An insightful write-up: Indian children… Aanteladda
Quote:
Indian children being snatched away from the presumably loving arms of their natural parents by a government is naturally an emotive piece of news. Facts are few, and fed to us in drips by one side alone. Received through our various filters of patriotism and ancient practice, this seems wrong, very wrong. And yet we stay silent.


The Norwegian child protection services took a four year old and a one year old into their custody almost a year ago stating that they were not being adequately looked after by their natural parents. The boy was picked up from his nursery school while the infant girl from home. The case is not being discussed by the Norwegian authorities as they say it is sub-judice. Presumably the privacy rights of the children also stop them from making many details public. What we have been told is that the elder child demonstrated autistic tendencies and was not being looked after properly.


Some of the accusations seem horribly warped – the younger child co-sleeping with the parents is supposed to be wrong and punishable. That is ridiculous – most civilizations ensure that babies sleep close to their mothers. Not only does it help the child emotionally and physically (the mother’s heart beat has been known to revive children), it is much easier for an exhausted parent to constantly look after the baby. There are arguments on both sides – as there are for everything relating to good parenting – but for any normal human – co-sleeping cannot be a crime punishable by separation. Similarly, they have been accused of feeding the child by hand. And pray, what did you do before cutlery was invented? Feeding by hands provides two way communication, is the natural organic way of doing things. Billions of people feed their child this way. It is also the Indian way of doing things – and the children are Indian.


Co-sleeping, feeding by hand – the story cannot be as simple as this.
...continued...

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 28th February 2012 at 00:13.
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Old 28th February 2012, 00:12   #5
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
That said, taking away one's child for 18 years, and allowing 1 hour visitation a quarter is sheer cruelty. no?
Knee-jerk at best! I am sure there are behind the scene things that have not been properly disclosed. Child care services put the welfare of the children at the forefront but they generally are not this extreme unless there's a just cause. The two reasons quoted could have been easily rectified by suggestion.
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Old 28th February 2012, 00:41   #6
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

Exactly. The media these days just wants to make a sensational breaking news out of everything. I told my friend this on the very first day when Baby Falak was admitted in Aiims that now the media will create so much hype over this as if we all were totally caught unawares and the child protection laws in our country are the best in the world. I mean common we all know about issues of child labour and child slave trade etc etc that plague are country. And there are millions of children who are subjected to torture. In a country where adult women have no say, are beaten and tortured etc how can we expect to be it a paradise for the children. But the Media turned it into something that has suddenly come out and shocked everyone and then for breakfast, lunch and dinner all I heard was Falak is not getting iv drip, she just passed stools now, and now she will undergo surgery. Now they have found new and more interesting crap to report about and have suddenly forgotten all about that poor baby. Every day now they are travelling the length and breadth of the country to find out new cases of such abuse, I already saw a couple on the TV I guess.

Sorry for the long rant but I agree wholeheartedly that there are always 2 sides to a story. The parents now feel and so is projected by the media by showing cute cuddly snaps of them with there kids, that they were kidnapped by the Norway agencies. But for them to have taken such a drastic step may indicate that somewhere something went really wrong.

Disclaimer: Please don't take my post in the wrong way. I do not mean to say that parents are at fault and should now not be allowed access to there kids. The way we bring up our children is ofcourse different from the rest of the world specially europe and USA. I see everyday babies and children travelling on front seats of the car, sitting on there fathers lap and holding the steering and so on. The same might be considered a gross criminal offence in Norway and may attract a huge penalty.

Last edited by drmohitg : 28th February 2012 at 00:43.
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Old 28th February 2012, 04:52   #7
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

My blood boiled when i read the news of this first time few months back, also i thought the story was over when they agreed to give the kids to their uncle but it does not seem to be so, now the Norwegian childcare services will come to a decision by early march.

Norwegian's need a good dose of Indian way of living 101, this is surely a cultural thing.
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Old 28th February 2012, 10:35   #8
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

The Norwegian Child Care - Barnevarnet , is no holy cow. Their methods have been questioned in a UN report as well. Following link is very informative on Barnevarnet and issue of NRI kids:
Full story - Norwaynews.com

Another critical report by CRIN:
http://www.crin.org/docs/NGO%20Norwa...e%20report.pdf
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Old 28th February 2012, 10:42   #9
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

Ignoring CPS being fallible:
Let me ask a political question. If their CPS decides to keep Indian kids in Norway till they are 18 years old, should they not have included the Indian government in their decision or atleast informed them? They have not committed a crime, have they? How can they keep Indian citizens there just like that?

Things moved only after Mamata banerjee took up the case end Nov/Dec (MEA slept over it back then).
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Old 28th February 2012, 11:00   #10
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

There are two sides to the story. Both the sides suck. Whatever it was, they should have deported them to India. I was expecting Didi to go to Norway and do a hartal.

Here is a whitepaper on the whole thing
A White Paper on NRI kids in Norway | PRAVASI TODAY : NRI NEWS : NRI HELP

Last edited by srishiva : 28th February 2012 at 11:01.
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Old 28th February 2012, 11:43   #11
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

I guess the CPS is an example of what you get in a social welfare state, massive expansion of state interference into everyday lives and personal freedom. The children are not "our children", they belong to the parents, unless they are being starved or savaged, the state has no right to interfere. World over, child care services are racked with child abuse in various forms, handing them over to state government employees who are immune to prosecution/sacking is a recipe for disaster. The Australian government created a whole generation of orphans in roughly the same manner.

Its depressing to read posts here trying to justify the CPS's action, would anyone here be supporting the GOI's rights to snatch children away from their Norwegian parents, should it find the parent's lifestyle not suitable for the kids.
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Old 28th February 2012, 12:22   #12
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

As per UN convention, every country is bound to respect the rights of citiznes belonging to other countries.

Norwegian child care laws apply to their citizens. nit to world over. they do not have the jurisdiction.

The kids in question are indian citizens

WHO (world health organisation) stipulates that breast milk is the best for kids up to a minimum of one year age.

In this case Norway govt taken away a girl of 3 months age. Isn't this a contravention of UN conventions? (WHO is part of UN)

There are very good articles in the last one month in HINDU form Norway citizens themselves.

The CPS in norway itself is a big racket as per these articles. Each foster parents is paid around 30-40000 US $ annually to this purpose.
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Old 28th February 2012, 12:49   #13
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

Sorry to say this, but I also see it as a failure of Indian government in protecting the rights of its citizen world over. Look at the way italy reacted when two of its navy person were held for fishermen death. The kerala high court passed its orders within two days allowing italians to go back from indian soil with some deposits. (where as indian courts takes months on an average). Would norway reacted the similar way India is reacting had there been a norwegian going through similar situation in india. No, they would have been far more active.
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Old 28th February 2012, 18:05   #14
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

I am a father and I cant think of sleeping without my son hugging me. Does that mean that I am mentally sick? The Norwegians seem to be in a Nordic dreamland and do not even bother to give credence to any customs different from theirs. Then it means that any Norwegian in Bengal should be wearing a lungi and have paan dribbling from his mouth else he may land in Tihar. That would be equivalence!
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Old 29th February 2012, 13:14   #15
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Default Re: Norwegian CPS separating Indian children from their parents!

Finally looks like the stand-of ends with the authorities agreeing to hand over the kids to their uncle, to be sent to India.

Norway to hand over Indian kids to uncle - India - DNA

Norway standoff ends, uncle to get NRI kids’ custody - The Times of India

Wonder if the younger one would recognize the parents, and what kind of trauma the kids would have gone through in this ordeal.
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