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Old 23rd May 2006, 13:22   #61
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Affirmative Action is a mainstay policy in Government Institutions, MNCs, Educational Instituions in the USA...Each Organisation has internal targets for getting it implemented & there is a constant tracking at the CEO/Board of Directors Level..

So there is nothing wrong in using Reservations to uplift the historically discriminated castes/races/religion

On the issue of reserving seats in Engg & Medical Colleges...IITs/RECs & other Merit Based Institutions - definitely need a debate on Reservations..as they do have a rigid testing for taking in students...

BUT, for other Private Engineering & Medical Colleges it is just a Money Game - It is so easy to get admission into thousands of Engg/Medical Colleges - especially if you are from Urban India - just pay the fees & get entry - I personally know many acquaintances who got barely 50% in Class XII - & yet are Engineers/Doctors today - So what Merit are we talking about ???

In such Institutions, Reservations I think do make a lot of sense - as the MAIN criteria for admissions as of now is " Economic "
- Unless of course we want to ape the USA & say that Higher Education is only for those who can afford it

Just my thoughts
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Old 24th May 2006, 17:18   #62
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As the government is leading us in dark please drive with your vehicles with headlights & hazard lights on from tommorow to show solidarity towards the students protesting against reservation.

This is the least we can do towards contributing to this cause.

Please forward this mail to all your colleagues who are against the reservation.

Last edited by naveendhyani : 24th May 2006 at 17:22.
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Old 24th May 2006, 17:38   #63
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and i thought RDB was a huge hit, doesn't look like it.
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Old 24th May 2006, 17:57   #64
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Default What makes a person SC/ST/OBC?

Does anyone have statistics how many % of Indian population belongs to SC/ST/OBC category?

And what exactly decides whether one belongs to SC/ST/OBC???

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Old 24th May 2006, 19:09   #65
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This is a decision that will effectively divide the country along caste lines at a time when we are trying to forget the same.

What these fools do for their immediate political gains will leave deep scars on this country's future.

I for one have decided that if I can help it, my son will not study in an educational institution in India where he is discriminated against because some idiot has decided that his forefathers werent 'backward' enough. Instead I will educate him on how his allegedly 'favoured' forefathers were one of the first to give up what they deemed was 'excess' land voluntarily even before land reforms were introduced.

The more they keep reminding us of our past the more they will drag the country back into it. Where is this country headed? I'd rather be an OBC in Dubai than be one of the 'privileged' classes that are discriminated against in my own country. I may not get concessions here for being an OBC, but at least I wont get discriminated against.

I hope they make it mandatory to put 'Reserved Quota' against the qualification of every professional - MBBS, MD (Reserved Quota). I will avoid them like the plague, regardless of how good they are. If somebody is determined to divide the country, why should we be selective about it? If my government feels that my son does not deserve to study in an institution regardless of his merit, I am free to reverse discriminate and go to those I feel made it on merit.

Lets go the whole hog and break this country up along caste lines. Every bit of it.

Last edited by Steeroid : 24th May 2006 at 19:13.
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Old 24th May 2006, 19:24   #66
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Default Azim Premji on reservation

Just got a forwarded msg...

***************************************
I think we should have job reservations in all the fields. I completely support the PM and all the
politicians for promoting this. Let's start the reservation with our cricket team. We should have 30 percent for OBC, SC/ST like that. Cricket rules should be modified accordingly. The boundary circle should be reduced for an SC/ST player. The four hit by an OBC player should be considered as a six and a six hit by a OBC player should be counted as 8 runs. An OBC player scoring 60 runs should be declared as a century.

We should influence ICC and make rules so that the pace bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar should not bowl fast to our OBC player. Bowlers should bowl maximum speed of 80 kilometer per hour to an OBC player. Any delivery above this speed should be made illegal.

Also we should have reservation in Olympics. In the 100 meters race, an OBC player should be given a gold medal if he runs 80 meters.

There can be reservation in Government jobs also. Let's recruit SC/ST and OBC pilots for aircrafts which are carrying the ministers and politicians (that can really help the country.. )

Ensure that only SC/ST and OBC doctors do the operations for the ministers and other politicians.
(Another way of saving the country..)

Let's be creative and think of ways and means to guide
Let's show the world that INDIA is a GREAT country.
Let's be proud of being an INDIAN..

Last edited by DaPilot : 24th May 2006 at 19:26.
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Old 24th May 2006, 22:50   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
It is as much clear that he doesn't care for logical argument or for that matter even for OBCs, except for his vote bank.

On hindsight, I feel it was waste of time to read that useless interview.
We have failed as a democracy.
as i have mentioned earlier somewhere, "govt of the people, for the people by the people" can only be as good as the people themselves.

we elect them, we fall prey to their tactics (and I am talking about the high class citizens, who fall for such gimmicks, let alone poors) and we suffer.

the largest community (in villages and poor areas) needs to be educated first, before they cast their power of votes. And our politicians will never let that happen. all they want is to suck the life out of our country and countrymen to make their posh bunglaws and properties.

you try to educate peple and you will be found (or may never be found) dead in some corner, termed as accidental death.
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Old 25th May 2006, 20:10   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
This is a decision that will effectively divide the country along caste lines at a time when we are trying to forget the same.

What these fools do for their immediate political gains will leave deep scars on this country's future.

I for one have decided that if I can help it, my son will not study in an educational institution in India where he is discriminated against because some idiot has decided that his forefathers werent 'backward' enough. Instead I will educate him on how his allegedly 'favoured' forefathers were one of the first to give up what they deemed was 'excess' land voluntarily even before land reforms were introduced.

The more they keep reminding us of our past the more they will drag the country back into it. Where is this country headed? I'd rather be an OBC in Dubai than be one of the 'privileged' classes that are discriminated against in my own country. I may not get concessions here for being an OBC, but at least I wont get discriminated against.

I hope they make it mandatory to put 'Reserved Quota' against the qualification of every professional - MBBS, MD (Reserved Quota). I will avoid them like the plague, regardless of how good they are. If somebody is determined to divide the country, why should we be selective about it? If my government feels that my son does not deserve to study in an institution regardless of his merit, I am free to reverse discriminate and go to those I feel made it on merit.

Lets go the whole hog and break this country up along caste lines. Every bit of it.
Sir

Fully understand where you are coming from & your angst is pretty valid..

Couple of pts :
1. South of India has been used to Caste Based Reservations as high as 70-80% in Engg /Medical Colleges since 1970s/1980s - All policy planners acknowledge that Southern States in India are doing well on parameters like per capita income/education & the spreads of post 1991 are well spread out to the Society as a whole ( Maybe AP is an exception)..& again I am talking about comparisions between South & North India ( not absolute comparison of Southern states with the Western World)..So Caste based reservations have made some minor part in the development & broad basing of economic reform benefits .
2. The Engg college from where I graduated - had 27% OBC Reservations - when Companies come for Recruitment to Campus - they do on the basis of %/CGPA in College - So Caste doesnt matter there - & I surely have not heard of ANY company complaining that OBC Reservations in State Engg Colleges have impacted the Quality of Output - or that X Caste Students are poor off than Y Caste Students...If some so of the "Upper" Caste Students loose out on jobs in College to "Reserved" Caste Students - that is fair.

3. On your point of degree having a MBBS,MD(Reserved Quota) -> Wouldn't it be equally fair to have MBBS, MD ( Paid Seats Category) Degree as well -> after all being rich doesnt equate to being "meritorious"

4. Using your logic, Are you ashamed/horrified of dealing with American Customers/Suppliers/ Companies who proudly advertise their policy of "Affirmative Action" - maybe the person with whom you are dealing with - is not "Meritorious" enough - & is working with a certain Fortune 500 Company - by virtue of his/her being of a certain " race ".

As a philosophy, I do agree on the concept & intention of reservations - Implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

India is a country of + $1 billion people out of which $700 million is Rural India - where Caste Based Discrimination does exist - The current Reservation Debate impacts( a little bit) the future of the Urban Youth & hence the Big Media Coverage...

But what the heck, pay some money, buy a degree & away from the "Merit" Rat Race !!!

Cheers

PS : I dont represent any Political Party/Caste which supports the Reservation
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Old 25th May 2006, 20:29   #69
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Paharino a few points (please refer your post above).

1. In South Indian states do you have any idea which communities manage to get most of the reservations? Well, the economically forward ones. LOL

2. The question of recruitment does ring true. But just imagine - what if there are 50% reservations?

3. Perfectly valid point.

4. What is the percentage of 'affirmative action' cases? Affirmative action surprisingly includes women too. It is not this crappy caste based bullsh!t.

I see where you are coming from.
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Old 26th May 2006, 10:21   #70
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1. voting rights should b only and only with the people who have completed their education (atleast graduate). people who are not educated are less likely to find the suitable candidate & hence the whole system fails.

2. a candidate (minimum education graduate with honours) has 2 win 50% of the votes polled in an election.

3. winning candidate (along with their immidiate family) should have no more than 2 terms. politics is a duty not a business as made by current politicians.

4. those who fail to do so they & their immidiate family should b barred from contesting again for 10 years time.

5. no canvassing should b allowed during the election. only radio stations should allow them a 1 minute slot every day.

i hope once we do this then we will have educated enough parliament who will take the right decisions not based on caste but need.

Mod Edit: Please refrain from posting the whole post in bold.

Last edited by Samurai : 26th May 2006 at 10:43.
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Old 26th May 2006, 10:58   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naveendhyani
1. voting rights should b only and only with the people who have completed their education (atleast graduate). people who are not educated are less likely to find the suitable candidate & hence the whole system fails.
I have seen lots idiots with degrees and lots of sane people without degrees. Besides, the urban educated people are usually not interested in politics. But the rural class uneducated people are heavily interested into politics, and it is they who really vote. Ask any city graduate who is their corporator/MLA or MP, mostly they won't know the answer. Repeat the same question to somebody in the village, they would mostly know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naveendhyani
2. a candidate (minimum education graduate with honours) has 2 win 50% of the votes polled in an election.
Arjun Singh is a double graduate, Laloo Prasad Yadav has a master's in political science. And if they don't get 50%, do we keep repeating the polls? Who will pay for that?

Points 3-5 does have merit, but who is going to pass that law? The current politicians?
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Old 26th May 2006, 12:59   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
I have seen lots idiots with degrees and lots of sane people without degrees. Besides, the urban educated people are usually not interested in politics. But the rural class uneducated people are heavily interested into politics, and it is they who really vote. Ask any city graduate who is their corporator/MLA or MP, mostly they won't know the answer. Repeat the same question to somebody in the village, they would mostly know.
sorry if i sound rude samurai but its not about nybody's interest. once we know that only the educated lot is voting nobody wud abstain from voting. somebody who does not have the basic sense that how many children they can bring up properly should not have the responsibility to select the leaders of the nation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
Arjun Singh is a double graduate, Laloo Prasad Yadav has a master's in political science. And if they don't get 50%, do we keep repeating the polls? Who will pay for that?
how many times do u think this will happen? once this starts rolling there is no looking back.

also forgot to mention in my first post "60 should b retirement age for politicians on the same grounds that are followed in govt jobs. actually all the rules that apply to govt employees should be followed in selecting them."

candidates with more than 2 children should b barred from contesting and for each cabinet minister there should b a minimum 5 yrs work ex (at a manaegrial level or above) required.

Last edited by naveendhyani : 26th May 2006 at 13:00.
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Old 26th May 2006, 13:21   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naveendhyani
1. voting rights should b only and only with the people who have completed their education (atleast graduate). people who are not educated are less likely to find the suitable candidate & hence the whole system fails.
-> Is democracy = by the educated, for the educated...Nope..that would be the social equivalent of "crony capitalism" . Not surprisingly, when I was in China, where I interacted with mostly educated people there, the same views reciprocated. They were of the view that current Governance system in China(so called Communism) is perfect - after all govt officials, businessmen & educated elite are the best people to take informed decisions for the "uneducated " majority as they have the right "perspective".

Pts 3,4 -> Politics is not a duty...it is a Profession..yes agreed it shouldnt be a Business.. & u think Politics is dirty in India..talk to Americans & Japanese..the sentiment more than reverberates !!

Pt 5 -> - its like saying Companies can sell their product in the market - but no advertising allowed .
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Old 26th May 2006, 14:20   #74
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Guys IMHO reservations are alright, as long as its based on "Economically weaker sections". Subsidised fees or no fees, Free forms, reading meterial, hostel facilities, coaching, study meterial, counselling etc should be provided under reservation to bring everyone on a level playing field. There after everyone regardless of caste can compete to get into the "PROFESSIONAL COLLEGES". Reservation should be implemented in School and Graduate courses, and this should be enough for everyone to be on a level playing field.

Reserving seats in M-Tech or MS or MD is completely baseless and will have serious implications on the future of our professionals.

I think reservations for economically weaker sections of the society would bring in more votes than SC/ST/OBC votes .... wouldn't it ?
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Old 26th May 2006, 14:52   #75
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I do not support 'caste based reservations' but the strength with which the parliament is passing resolutions, i have a hunch that in next 10-15 years, the reservation %ages will be prorated based on castes.

Guys, get ready to send your kids to U.S. for higher studies. India will not welcome the forward castes anymore.
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