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Old 27th June 2012, 11:43   #1
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Exclamation Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

You all must have read the ongoing fiasco between the esteemed MHRD and the senates of the IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) about the JEE (Joint Entrance Examination).

At the forefront of this has been IIT Kanpur. ( So proud I am today of being part of this prestigious institute ).

Here is a link to the Views of IIT Kanpur on this issue:

JEE: The IIT Kanpur View

And here is a link to the website of IIT Kanpur:

IITK - Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur



Coming back to the issue at hand. We will not discuss about the political aspects of this issue. How a government is trying to make name for itself by hurrying up the issue. Since 2014 is election year, all has to be implemented in 2013. Studies put aside, futures of deserving candidates put aside.
We won't talk about all that.


Lets come to the real issue. Inclusion of class 12 boards marks for the selection of candidates.

Lets talk about boards. 42 recognized boards. Some have 100 students. Some have a lakh. Some boards like CBSE and ICSE have good budgets and a good faculty to set papers and check papers. Some boards have problems even printing the exam papers. In some boards the toppers get 99% and in some 70%.

Huge disparity. They say normalizing. How do you normalize when there is such a huge disparity in number of students and huge disparity in quality of education imparted, quality of papers, quality of faculty checking the papers?
This will require analyzing years of data. Only if then they can find a trend in the figures can we use normalizing.

Quality of boards education. Why is there such a huge difference between the type of questions in a board and in JEE. I have given both and I can say be personal experience that even a maths exam in boards can be given by mugging up a standard set of questions. Absolutely no understanding required at all. And you can very well get an idea about the other subjects.

Now lets come to another menace. Coaching. Big cities. More disposable incomes. Better faculty at coaching institutes. Distinguishing factors between who gets the better coaching. Add to that the huge population of students in rural areas where coaching is just a hogwash. Where even teachers don't know the simplest of answers.

Checking of papers. Faculty from good schools which pay better and boards which pay better for paper checking will obviously do a good job. We have good teachers too who as a matter of conscious do a good job. The entire career of the student is at stake. Shift to teachers who have become teachers just because they couldn't get a job anywhere else and some who belong to boards in which the amount payed for paper checking is meager or is forced on them. What will they do? They have had a fight with their wife and so that morning all students will get low marks. As it is, its a burden on them to check the papers.

Now lets come to the biggest menace of them all. Cheating! 2 types of it.
1. At the Exam hall. Cheating is a punishable crime and at most of the exam centers strict code is adhered to. What at other places? We all have seen reports where the examiner is sitting outside and students are solving the paper as a team or one has a cell phone and is getting the paper solved outside. Yes this happens and I have seen it happen in the remote places where I have worked.
2. Paper leaked. When the Class 12 Hindi Exam paper of the best board in the country, be printed in a leading news paper, the same morning it is to be conducted and it is still conducted as if nothing happened, there is something wrong in the roots of our education system.
I bet 90% amongst us have been attracted to buy leaked papers some time or the other of our life. I have known people who have got 55% in the mid term and 96% in the class 12 boards exam.
Do they deserve to get into IIT based on their 96% marks which have come from cheating.
I don't negate the 60% scorers either. maybe they simply refused to mug up things and relied on understanding. I know a few 60% scorers too who have made it to IIT's.

So all in all I believe that class 12 marks should not be used in the selection into IIT's.

Now coming to the 1 exam proposal.

1 exam! what if you get a fever that day. Your whole year is ruined. What if you got late for the exam. What if there is a political rally and you got late to the exam?
So many whats! and non of them related to studies. So when we have so many questions associated to the 1 exam proposal without even coming to the actual study part why this.

Consider this. Your whole life depends on your performance on 1 day! Just imagine! Would that relieve your tension or would it amplify it thousands of times!
I know I would be shaking that day!

Sometimes there are days which are just not yours. You just don't think straight that day. What if that day is the day of this Single JEE. You're done for!

Multiple exams bring out the deficiencies in you. Maybe one exam you didn't do well. Analyze it and make amends and you will do better in the next. Atleast I know that if I don't perform well in one exam I have a few left and my life isn't going down the drain.

Moreover 1 exam will lead to more coaching institutes which will offer proper mock exams just like what happens for the CAT exam for management.


What were the agendas for bringing the change in the JEE in first place by the MHRD:

1. Less tension for students.
2. Curbing the coaching institute menace.

Both of these issues will be amplified by the proposed changes.


There is a solution being proposed as we speak but that too is lame. It says allow the top 20 percentage scorers in the class 12th to take the JEE main exam. This will again spur a race for scoring 99% in the boards and coaching will increase. Also people who were never interested in mugging up will have to mug up studies too. The smartest brains are generally not in the top 20% of the class. I bet you guys have seen that. Even in life ahead this has been proved time and again.


Lets hear your views on the same. Non political ofcourse. Frankly because the condition of politics is such that all talks lead to frustration.


*Edit: These are purely MY VIEWS. If anyone has a problem with them I can't help it. Thank you!

Last edited by navpreet318 : 27th June 2012 at 12:05.
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Old 27th June 2012, 11:49   #2
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

I prefer GRE way - one engineering entrance for all students in India. Everybody gets a score. CET Board of each state can allocate college for students for that state based on this score.
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Old 27th June 2012, 11:52   #3
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

I agree with your views on including class 12 marks. They do not represent uniformity.

However, having one exam is good for the student. You can always make sure it satisfies every institute's requirement. Not being able to make it on 1 day happens every year for every one in whichever grade you are. I think the institutes are not able to let go their ego and are opposing it for the sake of it. (nothing personal or political )

Last edited by srishiva : 27th June 2012 at 11:53.
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Old 27th June 2012, 11:56   #4
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

One exam = not good

Think about it. One bad day, one small cold, one little headache can completely change your future. Not a good idea. There should be more chances available if someone fails that one day.

Actually, this one exam this is done in China and it's quite a mess even there.
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Old 27th June 2012, 12:00   #5
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
I prefer GRE way - one engineering entrance for all students in India. Everybody gets a score. CET Board of each state can allocate college for students for that state based on this score.

No thing personal. But do you know GRE is held throughout the year and can be take 5 times a year? Where is the 1 exam day in a year in case of GRE.

Same goes for the reply above. 1 exam is alright but there is a need for it to happen on multiple number of days. So that any student can make use of it. Else there will be a hoard of coaching institutes which will offer mock tests.

Last edited by navpreet318 : 27th June 2012 at 12:03.
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Old 27th June 2012, 12:06   #6
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

@msdivy; I think you meant SAT. GRE is PG!

navpreet take a look at Musings of Dheeraj Sanghi: JEE 2013: An Open Letter to Prof. Barua

Do not worry IITs will become ITIs by the time Sibal is done with them.

I have a simple question - why must politicians interfere in everything.

If our boards are than great then why should not states (except TN which does so) admit on the performance there. Also, BITS was using board marks for admissions (after some normalisation) till recently when they were forced to change the system. Only issue was that a huge number of students got in from TN.


Note: I am an IITK alumnus (MSc-2 1973, and have been with IITK since 2007!).

Last edited by sgiitk : 27th June 2012 at 12:10.
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Old 27th June 2012, 12:12   #7
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
...............

navpreet take a look at Musings of Dheeraj Sanghi: JEE 2013: An Open Letter to Prof. Barua

Do not worry IITs will become ITIs by the time Sibal is done with them.

I have a simple question - why must politicians interfere in everything.

Note: I am an IITK alumnus (MSc-2 1973, and have been with IITK since 2007!).
Yes Sir, I have gone through this and have been following very closely. It gives a new perspective to how people behave under the influence of pressure and/or being hailed as a reformist. I hope you understand which Director I am referring to here.

Sir the answer to this question will become I believe a political discussion which will lead to just plain frustration. Also since it is against TeamBHP rules. I want this thread to stay afloat and people become aware of the on goings in our country and give a moment and think.



EDIT: I would request you all to please go through the link mentioned here as well. A very informative link and a learning point to be picked up would be how to speakup your mind in a free way without the fear of pressure.

Last edited by navpreet318 : 27th June 2012 at 12:14.
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Old 27th June 2012, 21:58   #8
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

There should be one entrance exam for all engineering institutes similar to BITSAT or GRE held over a period of time, say for two to three months. An agency should be responsible for conducting this exam at designated centers throughout the country. It would be a good idea to create a national testing service which conducts online exams in various disciplines including engineering exams through out the year.

To take care of the problem of a student not well on the designated day of test, a change of venue or date should be permitted. Today many students are not aware of their true aptitude and calling and end up in engineering, so there should be a very appropriate aptitude test also which will determine if the student has an aptitude for the profession.

The board exam should be only a qualifying exam and should not have any credit towards admission to engineering since there is a huge disparity of standards across the country.

Saji
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Old 28th June 2012, 07:47   #9
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Default Re: Changes to the IIT JEE. Non Political discussion

My favorite news channel reports that the government has accepted all the demands from IIT, sorry i havent been watching news for last week or so. Is the issue now settled or there is more to it.

As per the discussion, i came from a small town and no entrance exams were never held in that town. So for all entrance exams (IIT, Roorkee, ISM Dhanbad, State Engineering entrance exams and others) one had to keep track of dates, order forms (Those days you have to order forms by post), fill them before closing dates, pay for each of them separately, and then finally travel to the nearest exam center which was never the same for all exams. It used to be quiet a drain to travel different directions for each exam and quiet expensive if there were no close relatives in that city.

I choose not to do any class coaching (Only distance), but i remember my friends did different coaching for each as the exam pattern differed for each one quiet significantly.

Sometimes i feel lucky to be where i am without any help from any engineering college, or passing any entrance test. Those days this meant a sure shot failure, not anymore.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 28th June 2012 at 08:06.
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