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Old 4th January 2013, 15:36   #376
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
What of the confessions the first 5 gave ?
Have they been refuted or discounted in some manner?
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
There are umpteen cases of the chaps recanting, claiming that they made the statements under Police pressure. So these can be additional at best.
Confessions made to a police-officer / while under Police Custody are invalid / void and cannot be used as evidence against the accused, unless the the accused confessed in the immediate presence of a Magistrate while in police custody.
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Old 4th January 2013, 15:39   #377
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
Are we asking for mob justice? I don't think so. What everyone is asking for is that the killers must get the harshest possible punishment under the Indian laws based on the evidence of their crime. Does that make everyone demented, bloodthirsty creatures with a "herd mentality"? Did I or anyone else said that they be lynched or cut to pieces? No, the pertinent point is they deserve the harshest possible punishment under Indian laws and that is death by hanging. Now, thats my opinion and I stand by it.
Lets not jump the gun. My point was made in context of vigilante justice which was being endorsed in the original post to which I replied. My stand is the same as you, harshest punishment under the law.
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Old 4th January 2013, 15:39   #378
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Thumbs down re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
Thanks for clearing that up. Horse-Water-Drink. Can not do more
...
..
.
What is this? George Bush era. "With us or against us".
If I don't support your viewpoint, I am insensitive and blindly supporting criminals?
Will love to hear you take on Aruna Shanbaugh case.
I am 110% sure that you are very happy that she finally "GOT" the justice.
That the "due course of Law" was followed.
And that the Criminal "got the Punishment" he deserved.
He is moving around free living his life. isn't it? While she is in coma.
Justice served. Nice.

If people are baying for the blood (Or as Mob and lynching mentality you so smugly call it) it is because they have seen the outcome of "Holy" judicial system you are so much clinging to.

Sometimes all it takes is to imagine one's own family member going through the same thing to set the priories right.
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Old 4th January 2013, 15:43   #379
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Im sorry, but i think we are getting into some sought of mud slinging that should best be left to our politicians to do. We are a respectful community and each of us have our own views and opinions.

We can at the least agree to disagree.

We are not asking for a mob-killing of those guys. I think it is fair to ask for a speedy trial and the harshest of punishments to those criminals.

We would still have the human rights fellows who wanted Kasab to be kept alive. But being a democracy with freedom of speech, they too have the right so much as I have to speak my mind out.

I hope this case opens a lot of debates, and stronger laws with less loopholes are written and implemented.
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Old 4th January 2013, 16:25   #380
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
This is so not right. Juvenile or not, he committed those heinous crimes against that girl!! What are they gonna come up with next - insanity plea?

Skin them alive and let them rot; let them see maggots on their rotting bodies and die slow painful deaths!
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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Reading this makes me numb and lump throated. Even though he is a juvenile, he should not be given any leeway for that! Only if he also has his intestines ripped off and bled to death, he and others will learn a lesson. The best punishment i suggest for all these is public torture till death! Hanging is too painless for the barbaric deed that they have commited! When the world sees their torture to death, it will instill fear in others who will think twice before even thinking of doing such crime, let alone actually do it!

Lets see what this so called "Fast Track" process will do!
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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
He should be thrown naked in a hungry tiger\lions cage
I cant even imagine what made him do that,he should be killed as soon as possible.
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Originally Posted by sa_kiran View Post
Lawyers invent loopholes and all kinds of witnesses to defend the indefensible. Why can't they invent "rarest of rare criminal" category to punish this beast? This beast committed this kind of dastardly act at the age of 17 years. Imagine what he will be capable of after a few years.

None of the accused should be given death penalty, that is a very soft punishment. They should be castrated, made incapable of all physical acts and thrown into the society, to live with everyday taunts and abuses.
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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
The lions and tigers should be made to starve for weeks and then these criminals should be fed. The juvenile accused committed such a heinous crime and what would happen if he escapes punishment and comes out of the jail? What is the guarantee that he will not repeat such crimes? Please not treat him or any of the other 6 accused on any soft grounds. They all should suffer to death!
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Originally Posted by mannubhai View Post
Im sorry, but i think we are getting into some sought of mud slinging that should best be left to our politicians to do. We are a respectful community and each of us have our own views and opinions.

We can at the least agree to disagree.

We are not asking for a mob-killing of those guys. I think it is fair to ask for a speedy trial and the harshest of punishments to those criminals.
Mannu bhai,

I had decided not to reply anymore but your reply forced me to.

I picked up some quotes from only one page (22) of this discussion thread of 26 pages. Just one page. You still want to tell me there is no lynch mentality here or outside in real world, regarding this case. That we are all just asking for JUSTICE (while actually implying MERA WALA JUSTICE)

I am reminded of a question in criminal justice. How much punishment is enough for a criminal?
  • Deterrence theory argues that the amount of punishment should be the minimum required to achieve the desired amount of deterrence.
  • Retributive justice argue that the amount of punishment should be proportional to the amount of harm caused.
  • Reform theory argues that the amount of punishment should be enough to cause reform in the offender.
Keep aside the present case for a minute and tell me which one is good for society?

Last edited by carbookie : 4th January 2013 at 16:28.
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Old 4th January 2013, 17:26   #381
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

My law knowledge is limited to the infrequent Law&Order episodes and the Perry Masons I read a long time ago.

But one thing for sure, this should be the case that gets quoted , 'People v XXXX' so that all future similar cases get a precedent on which to act.

That being said, from the earlier post, I propose a 4th option under deterrence theory.

Attempt or success - the punishment should be for the harshest for that category.
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Old 4th January 2013, 17:56   #382
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
I picked up some quotes from only one page (22) of this discussion thread of 26 pages. Just one page. You still want to tell me there is no lynch mentality here or outside in real world, regarding this case. That we are all just asking for JUSTICE (while actually implying MERA WALA JUSTICE)
OK, let us accept that there is lynch mentality. What has caused this mentality and what is the solution? What do you call the judicial system, which is much worse than this mentality and probably the cause as well? It is this same judicial system that is breeding criminals, rapists and leading to great resentment amongst law-abiding citizens. Show me one high profile conviction and punishment - none of the scams running into lakhs of crores have resulted in conviction and punishment. Terrorists, murderers, scamsters and rapists enjoy hospitality of jails (and biryani as well) all at tax payers cost. We have Justice Kajtu dispensing his wisdom and taking moral high-ground. A few days back there was a report of one of his judgments of commuting jail sentence of rapists for monetary consideration!

According to you, it is alright if the law harasses law-abiding citizens and victims of atrocities. They should not raise their voice.

A complete and SENSIBLE overhaul of laws and judicial is necessary.
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Old 4th January 2013, 19:20   #383
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

While we are discussing on how the 5 need to be punished. I read in today's Hindu, that the SC has declined to hear a plea for disqualification of MPs and MLAs chargesheeted for crime against women, since disqualification is outside its jurisdiction.

Why is there no sense of urgency to start with them first. That would be a good lesson to the public that the law of the land prevails and is effective. I would say that we need to have reforms across the spectrum, if we really need to be effective. Else creating new laws would only add to the chaos. Along with it we also need to improve the policing across the country to focus on preventing crimes rather than investigating after.

Creating a law does not guarantee conviction. It is still upto the police, public prosecutor and defense to make or break a case. And we know of umpteen cases which have fizzled out after the initial hype by the media.
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Old 4th January 2013, 20:09   #384
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Found this article today. I sincerely hope Nirbhaya doesnt become another of these forgotten women.

Four women India forgot

Justice hasnt been delivered to any of these victims till now. I have lost all faith. Now I shall only pray.

Signing off from this topic with a heavy heart.

Last edited by Parthasarathig : 4th January 2013 at 20:14.
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Old 4th January 2013, 20:34   #385
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Found this on twitter, a very valid statement.

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Old 4th January 2013, 21:02   #386
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
Mannu bhai,

I had decided not to reply anymore but your reply forced me to.

Keep aside the present case for a minute and tell me which one is good for society?
There are criminals/crimes where we can think of a reforming. A pick pocket or even a guy who killed someone out of a rage or trying to defend, will fall in to that category.

A terrorist/crimals like these in delhi rape case, etc do not fall in that category. They need to be terminated.

Not all cancers are treatable by medicine. Some needs amputation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu.t.k View Post
disqualification of MPs and MLAs chargesheeted for crime against women, since disqualification is outside its jurisdiction.

Why is there no sense of urgency to start with them first. T.
Raghu, Keep the court aside for a second. Why isn't any political party throwing these criminals out? Same leaders who are shouting for death , holding candle light marches, silent marches, seem to totally silent on these charge sheeted MPs and MLAs ?
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Old 4th January 2013, 22:21   #387
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
Mannu bhai,

I am reminded of a question in criminal justice. How much punishment is enough for a criminal?
  • Deterrence theory argues that the amount of punishment should be the minimum required to achieve the desired amount of deterrence.
  • Retributive justice argue that the amount of punishment should be proportional to the amount of harm caused.
  • Reform theory argues that the amount of punishment should be enough to cause reform in the offender.
Keep aside the present case for a minute and tell me which one is good for society?
Answer: Retributive justice.

Leave this case aside and pick up any case of your choice where the criminals have all intention to commit the crime; and tell me where, in India, any of the above are considered while awarding a sentence.
Even government and others will be happy to hang them in this particular case to gain popularity.
The point is that the harsher punishment will not prevent further cases, but it will prevent the same guys to commit a crime again.
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Old 4th January 2013, 22:24   #388
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
Mannu bhai,

I had decided not to reply anymore but your reply forced me to.

I picked up some quotes from only one page (22) of this discussion thread of 26 pages. Just one page. You still want to tell me there is no lynch mentality here or outside in real world, regarding this case. That we are all just asking for JUSTICE (while actually implying MERA WALA JUSTICE)

I am reminded of a question in criminal justice. How much punishment is enough for a criminal?
  • Deterrence theory argues that the amount of punishment should be the minimum required to achieve the desired amount of deterrence.
  • Retributive justice argue that the amount of punishment should be proportional to the amount of harm caused.
  • Reform theory argues that the amount of punishment should be enough to cause reform in the offender.
Keep aside the present case for a minute and tell me which one is good for society?
you missed the fourth one, preventive, so they can not cause further harm to society.

But more importantly, these are not mutually exclusive. IMO all purposes should be served by a sentence.
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Old 4th January 2013, 22:29   #389
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I think one fact we have missed.

What was terrible about the crime was the murder.

For the torture and murder of the victim they should be hung.

It is the rarest of the rare.

If you make rape punishable with hanging, every rapist will try and kill their victims.

That is not a good solution.

Also I agree with innocent until proven guilty.

How many of us in the case of an accident are scared of being lynched?

I have also seen the sort of questioning police do in bangalore for extracting confessions. It's a big joke, everything from electric shocks to breaking toes. The police here are not smart enough, they rely on medival forms of investigation.

Last edited by Diesel_convert : 4th January 2013 at 22:34.
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Old 4th January 2013, 23:24   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post

Confessions made to a police-officer / while under Police Custody are invalid / void and cannot be used as evidence against the accused, unless the the accused confessed in the immediate presence of a Magistrate while in police custody.
Well, that happened. It was before a magistrate.
And the TIP has also been done. No?
What's the holdup?

http://m.oneindia.in/news/2012/12/20...l-1117550.html

Last edited by mayankk : 4th January 2013 at 23:27.
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