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Old 5th January 2013, 00:23   #391
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Forget the rapists. Hear what the boy has to say about that night. What action do we now take against the men who ignored them lying on the road, the PCR Guys who as usual kept arguing whose responsibility it was or the hospital emergency guys who would not start treatment till police formalities are over? Should they not be made a party to the crime and chargesheeted?
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Old 5th January 2013, 01:09   #392
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
What was terrible about the crime was the murder.

For the torture and murder of the victim they should be hung.
I think it's hard to categorize which is worse. I strongly believe rape is just as bad. Not only has the woman's dignity been tarnished for the rest of her life, she will probably have to live with injuries sustained during the heinous commitment of the crime for a long time. Not only that, she will be shunned in society and the recurring thoughts of the act might have severe psychological effects that will prevent her from enjoying healthy companionship with a man for as long as the memory is fresh!

If you ask me, it's better to just die *flamesuit on*

I think rape deserves a very severe punishment. A life term is just not enough. By giving rapists a life term, you're playing right into their hands. They will enjoy food, shelter and clothing on the house for the rest of their lives! Not to mention access to entertainment like the television, a library and all the recreational activities (read: narcotics) you can think of.

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Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
If you make rape punishable with hanging, every rapist will try and kill their victims.

That is not a good solution.


There must be a form of punishment that will not only result in reformation but also deter people from committing similar crimes in the future.

I've been thinking of 'the chair' or also infamously referred to as 'the hot seat'. Not prolonged usage, but enough to give them a couple of jolts every now and then.

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Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
Also I agree with innocent until proven guilty.

How many of us in the case of an accident are scared of being lynched?
I will take the liberty of quoting my post again as many don't seem to completely understand this 'innocent until proven guilty thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
There is something called a 'Dying Declaration'.

It is a legal document observed by the Laws Of Evidence wherein the person at the receiving end of the crime - right before his / her death (due to the crime) - has divulged and expressed the crime-scene either verbally or in writing. In this case, Nirbhaya's statements recorded before her death can be treated as a 'Dying Declaration'.

Besides, there is sufficient circumstantial and substantive evidence to prove then guilty. Remember, benefit of doubt can be given only when the evidence is neither direct nor doubtful.

This can be termed as substantial evidence and conclusive proof that the crime had been committed.
One may be innocent until proven guilty only in cases where either the evidence is circumstantial and not conclusive OR in most civil cases / some criminal cases.

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Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
I have also seen the sort of questioning police do in bangalore for extracting confessions. It's a big joke, everything from electric shocks to breaking toes. The police here are not smart enough, they rely on medival forms of investigation.
And I will quote myself again:

Quote:
Confessions made to a police-officer / while under Police Custody are invalid / void and cannot be used as evidence against the accused, unless the the accused confessed in the immediate presence of a Magistrate while in police custody.
Evidence collected by a police officer or by policemen while under their custody is invalid JUST for this reason: application of torture / extortion, etc.

In fact, evidence collected by the police or any other person in England is considered VALID.

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Well, that happened. It was before a magistrate.
And the TIP has also been done. No?
What's the holdup?

http://m.oneindia.in/news/2012/12/20...l-1117550.html
You know by now how the system works. *grins*

Now they say that they aren't able to find a defense lawyer for the accused. Also, the results of those identification tests are awaited(?) All I know is that the results of the test conducted on the minor are yet to come.

But knowing how the system works, I think the minor would have attained majority well before the conviction is granted and he will still be convicted as a minor. *facepalm*

Last edited by suhaas307 : 5th January 2013 at 01:11.
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Old 5th January 2013, 09:30   #393
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Yeah. Just wanted to point out that however long the case takes, no matter what the outcome, the age on the day of the crime is what will be taken into account.

As for the girls friend on the news yesterday, you could see in his face that he'd given up, but now had risen again. And it is SUCH a common phenomena in Delhi.
Two actually. One is the perennial discussions about jurisdiction. Its a given that be it a murder or a streetfight, even if the incident happens in the middle of one region, if more than one pcr shows up they will try to pass the buck the first thing. I remember an incident near my home and similar shenanigans were being pulled by a pcr. A retired ips gent came in, and told them that if it's not your job or jurisdiction, "to Yahan Kya 'dance' dekhne aaye ho? ".(don't need to put that in English) Of course, he still had clout, so he could(which is another story of Delhi altogether, "approach").
Even if one is from that area and other is from 3regions away!
Secondly, in Delhi, it is nary impossible to have someone stop for an accident. But just the first one. All it takes is the first person to stop, and then a whole wave of help comes.
This I've observed in spending my whole life to the current point in Delhi.I don't know if this happens elsewhere ..
So guys, if you see something happen, try and be that instigator.
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Old 5th January 2013, 12:47   #394
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Today I was going through the paper regarding the Delhi rape, the authorities are now considering sending one of the accused who is under 18 years to a juvenile home and they have not charged him with any charges just because he is under 18! Now this guy also was a part of the episode when all this happened on the moving bus and was very much aware or interested in the happenings with the poor girl, so where is the question of him not being charged with rape and where is the question of sending him to a juvenile home just because he is under 18? There is too much of political interference in our country that nobody can take any decision. The government itself is being run by these people hence no law prevails. Everyday somewhere rape is happening and so many cases go unnoticed or are simply diluted by the cops. If capital punishment is not taken as the only resort for such things then this will continue for generations to come! Humans seems to have gone worse than animals. Frustrating:
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Old 5th January 2013, 13:03   #395
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Angry re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I think it's hard to categorize which is worse. I strongly believe rape is just as bad. Not only has the woman's dignity been tarnished for the rest of her life, she will probably have to live with injuries sustained during the heinous commitment of the crime for a long time. Not only that, she will be shunned in society and the recurring thoughts of the act might have severe psychological effects that will prevent her from enjoying healthy companionship with a man for as long as the memory is fresh!

If you ask me, it's better to just die *flamesuit on*
Since you asked to be flamed, I shall do so.

I think most rape victims will disagree with you,
http://www.manushi-india.org/pdfs_is...0My%20Life.pdf'

Virginity and associated concepts are not really a part of Indian culture.
It's a relatively recent addition thanks to the British. Indian men are not insecure to consider rape to be an unforgivable sin on the woman's part. That's a very 1600's attitude.

What should happen is the portrayal of rape in media be shown in a different light.
Right now they are shown as some sort of celebrities.

If the media was sensible,
the criminals are shown to be lonely SAD people who can't get it up / can't get a girlfriend.

Mental wounds and the rage from being helpless are the worst effects for the victims from what I have read, there is no easy solution to that as they are mostly caused by societies attitude towards her.

If society at large didn't look down on the woman being raped but looked down on the rapists, most of these problems wouldn't exist.
We need to change as a society.


Quote:
I think rape deserves a very severe punishment. A life term is just not enough. By giving rapists a life term, you're playing right into their hands. They will enjoy food, shelter and clothing on the house for the rest of their lives! Not to mention access to entertainment like the television, a library and all the recreational activities (read: narcotics) you can think of.


There must be a form of punishment that will not only result in reformation but also deter people from committing similar crimes in the future.

I've been thinking of 'the chair' or also infamously referred to as 'the hot seat'. Not prolonged usage, but enough to give them a couple of jolts every now and then.


But we can go about it in a clinical fashion (without the rage), just put them into some sort of hard physical slave like labor for the rest of their lives. Breaking rocks would be a good idea. And please publicise this in the media, 'look what happens if you rape' ie; You wont see another woman in your life.

And thanks for the insights into our 'JUSTICE' system.

I know that they have already been tried by the media, I hope the courts can do a good job.

I think I should stop posting about this as I start to rage myself and want to skin them alive, but that makes me no different than them.
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Old 5th January 2013, 13:18   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parthasarathig View Post
Found this article today. I sincerely hope Nirbhaya doesnt become another of these forgotten women.

Four women India forgot

Justice hasnt been delivered to any of these victims till now. I have lost all faith. Now I shall only pray.

Signing off from this topic with a heavy heart.
Dark thoughts about what a nasty place India is for us to live in is the first thing that hits one when one reads your link. An evil, callous society which is obsessed only with wealth,status, power and acceptance. I really despair of this place for the future.
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Old 5th January 2013, 14:44   #397
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

One of my professors from law school has written an excellent piece - very relevant to the questions being asked here.

http://lawandotherthings.blogspot.in...ility-and.html
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Old 6th January 2013, 05:29   #398
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

And here is the next perpetration:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/21-old-girl...083824894.html

Seriously it is high time for affecting a more deterrent type of punishment of higher magnitude for such rape cases....the society is really going to the dogs.
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Old 6th January 2013, 08:03   #399
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post

One may be innocent until proven guilty only in cases where either the evidence is circumstantial and not conclusive OR in most civil cases / some criminal cases.
'Innocent until proven guilty' is relevant in every criminal case. It means that the onus *should not* be on the defendant to prove himself innocent. The onus should be on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty.
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Old 6th January 2013, 10:25   #400
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

@sa_kiran; Not quite. I saw it on one of the news channels being spoken by the local MLA with the consent of the family. This is in the context of naming the new law after her.
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Old 6th January 2013, 14:50   #401
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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'Innocent until proven guilty' is relevant in every criminal case. It means that the onus *should not* be on the defendant to prove himself innocent. The onus should be on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty.
Of course, the onus lies with the plaintiff to prove the defendant guilty. But what about instances where there is substantive and conclusive evidence against the defendant? I'm not sure.
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Old 6th January 2013, 15:54   #402
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Of course, the onus lies with the plaintiff to prove the defendant guilty. But what about instances where there is substantive and conclusive evidence against the defendant? I'm not sure.
The prosecution should use the substantive and conclusive evidence to prove that the defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.
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Old 6th January 2013, 20:50   #403
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

The only way to reduce such barbaric act is to make punishment certain and quick! This case is a standing testimony that the long arms of our law is really long and slow This will only encourage others to committe such atrocities with greater impunity as they know the chance of getting caught & if caught being punished is REMOTE! The very reason we see more such cases including in Delhi while all these protests were going on!
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Old 6th January 2013, 21:07   #404
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Already the case coverage is getting low in Media.
The "World Famous" short memory of Indians at work again.

When going to bed pray that your near and dear one does not become a victim.
I feel so helpless.
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Old 7th January 2013, 00:19   #405
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Default re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEATH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Dark thoughts about what a nasty place India is for us to live in is the first thing that hits one when one reads your link. An evil, callous society which is obsessed only with wealth,status, power and acceptance. I really despair of this place for the future.
Sad but true.
It starts with our political class and filters down to the ordinary people.
Members may remember Rudy Guilliano's way in New York.He started coming down heavily on petty crime like jay walking and small time thieves and all that effort paid off.Slowly and steadily major crimes like rape and murder tapered off.
If the criminals had been apprehended when they robbed a citizen an hour earlier the rape might have been averted.If the auto rickshaw had not refused the fare(they are not supposed to) the outcome would have been different.
Here is an article from Times of India(6/1/2013) titled"How does one shame the shameless in India".

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defau...&ViewMode=HTML
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