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Old 14th September 2013, 12:32   #751
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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I feel Charles Whitman's case is slightly different. It was found that he did have some abnormalities in his brain as a result of a tumor which could be attributed as a factor causing some mental imbalance.
His case is of a mental illness of being a sociopath rather and not of the attitude and the beastiality. My blood boils whenever I think of the dastardly act committed by the 5.

Juvenile or otherwise I secretly wish these 5 undergo the same treatment that they met out to that hapless girl. Sorry, but when I close my eyes and just imagine the pain she has gone through - hanging just doesn't is enough :-(.

I do believe that a deterrence would not be able to completely stop crimes, but it would make people think about consequences before they even think of committing such a crime. Even a cow deterred enough would not come back to eat grass in a plot. For people who do not have morals, a question on their survival would be enough motivation to not to commit such acts.

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Old 14th September 2013, 13:10   #752
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

As usual human rights activists have jumped in questioning the death penalty and the public support towards hanging of these beasts.

I don't understand why none of the human rights activists were heard talking about the girls human right to live a dignified life. Where were they when the innocent girl was brutally attacked and raped? Why do these people always come out of hibernation when some beasts are given the correct judgement? The bigger the crime, the more publicity a crime has got the more these people talk. Where are they when women round the country are disfigured by men in acid attacks? I also don't understand the logic of these guys when they ask if hanging these 4 people will stop rapes. Of course, rapes will not stop. Why do we expect complete end to a problem? Rapes happen even in western countries where there is no death penalty. Besides, isn't it possible that rapes may reduce if we have a strong deterrent in law? Why can't the activists think of reduction in crimes rather then complete end to it? Human rights in India is actually criminal rights.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...1-1121790.aspx

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Old 14th September 2013, 14:17   #753
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As usual human rights activists have jumped in questioning the death penalty and the public support towards hanging of these beasts.

I don't understand why none of the human rights activists were heard talking about the girls human right to live a dignified life. Where were they when the innocent girl was brutally attacked and raped? Why do these people always come out of hibernation when some beasts are given the correct judgement? The bigger the crime, the more publicity a crime has got the more these people talk. Where are they when women round the country are disfigured by men in acid attacks? I also don't understand the logic of these guys when they ask if hanging these 4 people will stop rapes. Of course, rapes will not stop. Why do we expect complete end to a problem? Rapes happen even in western countries where there is no death penalty. Besides, isn't it possible that rapes may reduce if we have a strong deterrent in law? Why can't the activists think of reduction in crimes rather then complete end to it? Human rights in India is actually criminal rights.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...1-1121790.aspx
Amnesty International and others have no other work in life bar questioning these decisions and sowing seeds of doubt. I give a fig for them and their silly 'human rigs'. However, I will willingly join an Animal Rights movement because poor animals cannot speak.

The bottomline is that the criminals should be decapitated or hung or drawn and quartered or something equally wicked, the way they used to do things in the old days. This is a perfect case for an eye for an eye.

This lawyer AP Singh's remarks are in very very poor taste. He should be disbarred immediately from the profession and blackballed out of all his clubs...
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Old 15th September 2013, 12:50   #754
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Time to try & break that cycle.
Yes time to break that cycle. That cycle in which criminals keep on breaking the law and there is never any action. Criminals need to know that for every crime they commit, minor or major, the action will be swift. If we have a strong justice system wherein the consequences of committing a crime is swift and harsh punishment, people will think twice before they do it.
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Old 15th September 2013, 13:39   #755
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

It is a welcome move to offer the capital punishment for the accused. Hope that the punishment is executed soon so that the accused don't have a chance to appeal against.
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Old 15th September 2013, 14:08   #756
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I am worried about another aspect. The better thing from a rapist's perspective seems to be kill the victim and witnesses and take all evidence out. That seems to be the best chance of not getting caught for them. I can't think of a solution , but we could see more murders and disappearances post rape which is equally disturbing! Sad state of affairs, and the feeling of helplessness is killing.

Also, this case saw the light quickly as all the perpetuators were nobodies... If there were any influential guys involved, we would have been talking about how many loopholes our system has.

Nevertheless, Pat on the back to civil society... vigilance has helped fast track this case. This motivates citizens to participate in more such social cases.
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Old 15th September 2013, 14:42   #757
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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Also, this case saw the light quickly as all the perpetuators were nobodies... If there were any influential guys involved, we would have been talking about how many loopholes our system has.
Even these guys would have gotten away with this crime if it wasn't for the media attention and civil society's movement. Neither was the girl influential nor the accused (now convicts). When the girl and her friend were lying on the road the cops dithered about jurisdiction and what not instead of helping the injured. That showed that the cops were not going to take this case seriously despite the gruesome nature of the crime.

That is my biggest compliant against our system. Every time justice has been done it's only because of the pressure of the media. Jessica Lal and Nirhaya case are examples of that. The day justice is swiftly served to the downright poverty stricken person away from the glare of the media, that is the day we can confidently say that our justice system is working. Sadly, that day seems as far off today as it was before Nirbhaya's case.

Take a look at another gruesome crime:Woman's shocking tale of sexual abuse.

Somewhere in the article it says the woman was advised by her colleague to approach the janta darbar of the CM with her complaint. It is a damning case against the police and clearly shows how they still are callous and unmoved by crimes against women. I feel the CM apart from asking cops to take immediate action should also ponder over why the common man is so hesitant to approach the cops.
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Old 15th September 2013, 17:25   #758
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Besides, isn't it possible that rapes may reduce if we have a strong deterrent in law?
Doubt it. There is very little to no evidence anywhere in the world that stiffer sentencing, or death sentence acts as a deterrent. In fact the countries with relatively high serious crimes and severe punishments including death penalties, don't see a reduction in crimes, murders or rape.

I this particular case, I'm not saying these four shouldn't get the death penalty, but thinking it will act as a deterrent is naive and has never really happened. You need major changes in Indian society and culture with respect to the position of women. Legislation and punishment are only a part of it and won't do much, if anything at all, by themselves.

I'm not going to speak out for the various human rights groups and organization.They can do that for themselves. But I will say that they have been very vocal for many years on the situation of women in countries such as India. They condone the death penalty and you can agree or disagree, but I do believe they usually have a very good grasp of the real problem and how that needs to be tackled. They, like many, don't believe that punishment is going to change much. They have seen plenty of evidence over several decades all around the world. If you skip passed the part of no death penalty I still believe this article provides a reasonable and balanced overall view:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/...men-2013-09-13

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Old 15th September 2013, 17:59   #759
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You need major changes in Indian society and culture with respect to the position of women.
Is this particular to India? Because I am not so sure if India has more rape as compared to other 'enlightened' countries. I think India has less rape cases per capita as compared to a lot of developed countries.
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Old 15th September 2013, 18:06   #760
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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Is this particular to India? Because I am not so sure if India has more rape as compared to other 'enlightened' countries. I think India has less rape cases per capita as compared to a lot of developed countries.
carboy I'd agree with your argument here (even US has very high rape rate. As per US Dept of Justice, 1 out of 5 women have been sexually assaulted and conviction rate is less than 6%)

But i guess the major difference is the difficulties victims have to face in their quest for justice, should they decide to pursue. Its appalling the the kind of stigma attached to the victims for being raped and some of them even commit suicide because of that.
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Old 15th September 2013, 18:12   #761
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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But i guess the major difference is the difficulties victims have to face in their quest for justice, should they decide to pursue.
What about Steubenville - the whole town including the judges and the police tried to suppress the rape case because the accused were in the local college football team & the whole town was fans.

Also if the conviction rate in the US is less than 6% - what does it mean about the difficulties victims have to face there in their quest for justice?

Last edited by carboy : 15th September 2013 at 18:17.
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Old 15th September 2013, 20:13   #762
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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Doubt it. There is very little to no evidence anywhere in the world that stiffer sentencing, or death sentence acts as a deterrent. In fact the countries with relatively high serious crimes and severe punishments including death penalties, don't see a reduction in crimes, murders or rape.
I agree with you. The justice given out is between the victims and the culprits. The only positive aspect of death penalty is that it allows the victims to make peace with the crime and move on; There is no correctional aspect for the criminal.

In such heinous crime, the punishment isn't much of a deterrent either. To be conscious of punishment, one needs to be rational thinking and should feel that their life is worth living. Most of these people are beyond that point.

For society, its not a time to rejoice or take comfort, it is a sad sad moment. For it is the failure of society that produce such monsters. A working society needs to instill a sense of worth and standing among all its people. It needs to go into introspection mode and see what needs to change, instead of hoping that the law will solve its deficiencies.

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Old 15th September 2013, 21:28   #763
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

This is a case which is so charged up that anything except a death punishment has been seen as a reprieve for the accused.
However to 'celebrate' a death is something I cannot be party to. I could not do it when Kasab was hung, I would not do it when these 4 would be (if they are, finally).

But my bigger question is this: Death is still an escape for these inhuman acts. In my opinion if there was a way to make them pay for all their lives, every single day, every single moment, I would have that any day over a death sentence.

The other flip side of the question is - these men 'only' fear death. Any maybe - just maybe - Men across this lawless land will wake up to the idea that 'Rape will cause them their demise', then there might be a reduction in the actual number of case across this country.

The facts of this case were so mind numbing that we all start seething with anger but how many of us do the small things correctly? When I say correct, I dont only mean you behaving in the right manner but stopping and interfering others when they leech/pass vulgar comments/make sexist remarks in offices or in our friend circles?
We may be unpopular for being the pain in the wrong place for pointing others but we need to begin. For those who have kids - How many of you are teaching your Sons to behave with respect?

I remember when I was a kid my father told me, "Do whatever you want - play,study,have fun but never ever think of passing any comment or making any lewd remarks against a girl; in that case I will be the first person to beat you black and blue".

Lets all be responsible. This is our country, lets stop it from going down the drains.

I know I have gone slightly OT but felt that things could be discussed in a manner which is forward looking. Any comment is welcome.
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Old 16th September 2013, 08:51   #764
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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I remember when I was a kid my father told me, "Do whatever you want - play,study,have fun but never ever think of passing any comment or making any lewd remarks against a girl; in that case I will be the first person to beat you black and blue".

I know I have gone slightly OT but felt that things could be discussed in a manner which is forward looking. Any comment is welcome.
I dont think it's OT at al. In fact spot on. Part of what society and culture is like, comes from the values parents give to our children.

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Old 16th September 2013, 10:40   #765
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide. The 4 others sentenced to DEA

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Hope that the punishment is executed soon so that the accused don't have a chance to appeal against.
Unfortunately, this is not an option in India (or most countries). Every convict has an option to appeal to higher court. In many countries, the punishment get more severe if the higher court upholds the conviction. Not so in India. But then, what can be worse than death? May be hard labour without weekend break for 10 years (with all the earnings going to victim's kin) and then execution.

So case will drag few more years in different higher courts. Let's hope that it goes till filing the mercy petitions, and our president Mr. Mukherjee rejects them like he usually does.

I just remembered: in school they taught us that a convict's fate is sealed after the president rejects the mercy petition. But recently, a court agreed to reconsider the punishment of some death row convicts just because president's mercy plea rejection process took some 15 years! Anything is possible in India!
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