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Old 12th March 2015, 15:08   #871
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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^^ My opinion is, nobody should have made the film. Not when the matter is in court. Not when the accused are under death sentence and have appealed. Now after all this publicity, the judiciary and even the president may have no choice but to uphold the sentence.
....
But I concede that had the film not been banned, it would have sank without a trace.
The same argument was raised by Brinda Grover on TV. What N Ram retorted was that the Rajiv Gandhi is still under some appeal, so by the same logic should still be blocked, not possible. Also, what Sanjay Hegde stated was that after the HC all appeals and arguments are only on evidence on record, so these things have no effect.
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Old 12th March 2015, 15:09   #872
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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^^ My opinion is, nobody should have made the film. Not when the matter is in court. Not when the accused are under death sentence and have appealed. Now after all this publicity, the judiciary and even the president may have no choice but to uphold the sentence.

Now before you jump the gun asking "do they not deserve the death penalty?', let me say they do, but the due process of law should not be influenced by trial by media.

But I concede that had the film not been banned, it would have sank without a trace.
I don't believe in influencing due process, but it's not a concept limited to law alone. Suppressing critical inquiry is also influencing due process.

The govt. had no business intervening with the documentary. They should've left it to its own fate, it would've sunk or swum on its own merit (or lack thereof, as you say). We live in a democracy, suppressing content/debate on a topic (however controversial) shouldn't even be an option, and it's impossible to do it in today's connected world anyway. All the govt. achieved with its ham-fisted approach was publicity for the film and ridicule for itself.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 12th March 2015 at 15:12.
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Old 12th March 2015, 15:15   #873
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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The same argument was raised by Brinda Grover on TV. What N Ram retorted was that the Rajiv Gandhi is still under some appeal, so by the same logic should still be blocked, not possible. Also, what Sanjay Hegde stated was that after the HC all appeals and arguments are only on evidence on record, so these things have no effect.
N.Ram is more British than the British, I am not surprised!

But he is missing the crux. The Rajiv case accused are not shown on camera justifying the killing and bad mouthing Rajiv; but that is eactly what is happening with Mukesh Singh. He is digging his own grave. His dumbness is being exploited.
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Old 12th March 2015, 15:22   #874
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

@Gansan; I do not like any of the three named by me. may I add that N Ram made The Hindu lurch left and is considered by many to be a communist paper. I think you missed the point that the SCI arguments will totally be on the arguments on record! No additional evidence will be admissible. As for Mukesh Singh the earlier he is hanged the better. I feel the monster juvenile deserves the same.
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Old 12th March 2015, 15:28   #875
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

By banning this documentary in India, government has done a favor to BBC and provided free marketing. Without so much of a hoopla created by our media and politicians this too would have passed almost unnoticed.

Important point here is not so much the documentary instead how Indian society is so hypocritical. When it comes to this documentary condemnation is quick and rape is said is bad, but in the homes women are not treated as equal.

Lets take a very simple example for highly educated people - how many men here would be okay if their wives were to earn more then them or would these men be willing to relocate for a wives job. If I were to put a poll for this question here on top, the psyche of the men in our country will become pretty self evident.

We need to treat women as our equal and respect their choices and wishes.
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Old 12th March 2015, 15:33   #876
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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Not exactly. But if an ugly duckling holds up a mirror to show my ugliness to me, it will irritate me! Is our society incapable of introspection?
If she is ugly, hold another mirror at her face. Here you are just making this excuse because you are uncomfortable seeing your mirror.

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But he is missing the crux. The Rajiv case accused are not shown on camera justifying the killing and bad mouthing Rajiv; but that is eactly what is happening with Mukesh Singh. He is digging his own grave. His dumbness is being exploited.
If Godse's letter justifying the killing of Gandhi can be the bible of many in this country, what is the objection to airing Mukesh's opinion on his crime? And isn't his opinion similar to what most Indian males hold? Yes, to varying degrees, but the general attitude here is "she brought it on her". Most men even while condemning the rape does not fail to add, "what was she doing at 9pm with a male friend"?

Last edited by blacksport : 12th March 2015 at 15:39.
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:04   #877
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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Her own country has a recent issue of young girls being sexually exploited, and the case being hushed up for political correctness! And her country is no.3 when it comes to pedophilia! Did she make documentaries about those? I wish our film makers go there and make documentaries, to hold a mirror to their face!
Well, this wasn't Leslee Udwin's original idea to produce this documentary. You see, she was invited here in India by an Indian film producer who was later kicked out by Leslee after supposedly she saw the kind of stir this documentary can create. This whole episode makes me smell fish in the 'holy purpose' of Leslee here to bring about some real 'mirror'. In fact the whole issue was based on false precincts. Permissions granted to someone, (whose name is missing from even the credits roll) on certain grounds which were openly flouted and then this friend of victim claiming fake stories/interviews planted in the documentary.


http://www.kractivist.org/did-leslee...ndiasdaughter/

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/nirbhayas...097-3-244.html

I mean yes, the cause seems to be noble and yes it comes with a lot of resistance from the society/authorities, BUT this doesn't mean that rules of engagement will be flouted and fake stories will be planted.

Overall a fish curry that has gone horribly wrong and smelly, IMHO.
OR MAYBE, controversy was what Udwin wanted to get the attention she is getting now!

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Who in your opinion is entitled to make this particular documentary then? Don't say an Indian, because someone will probably start a 'regionalism' argument about how the person from ABC region has no business pointing a finger at XYZ region.
As I mentioned, Leslie was invited to produce this documentary by an Indian producer. Please refer to the attached screenshot and link given above in this post.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
But I concede that had the film not been banned, it would have sank without a trace.
Differ here with you Gansan. I think the film was already a rage topic of debate before it was banned. NDTV even had a full one hour show on primetime hours before Govt. banned it. There were people talking about in social media with their point of view bundled even before the screening on YouTube.

Though, it somehow coveys correctly whats screwed in our society - where rapists have long gotten away with a mere 7 years of imprisonment, juveniles have it better with 3 years, lengthy legal proceedings, humiliating cross examinations and then most of the times a little support for the victim from her own family.
This must enrage those who are lawmakers here to pass a tough law that fast tracks hearings and provides for ample punitive measures that become deterrent for people to commit this crime. By all means, Hang them or castrate them - that's my opinion - may be on a harsher side, but till the time we change our laws and punitive measures and its ease of verdict making, it will not matter what kind of educational reforms are brought, how many number of such documentaries are made or how many times people protest on streets.

>>> P.S.: FB screenshot where it is alleged that Leslee was asked by an Indian Producer to come on board for the production of this coumentary and later how Leslee sidelined her host
vv
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Last edited by 1lokesh : 12th March 2015 at 16:10.
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:08   #878
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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If Godse's letter justifying the killing of Gandhi can be the bible of many in this country, what is the objection to airing Mukesh's opinion on his crime?
Well, that comparison appears very wise, but actually it is otherwise!

were Godse's views made public during his trial or after his death?
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:26   #879
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

Please don't compare Godse with rapist Mukesh. And let's not get into unrelated territories.
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:30   #880
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

I am aghast, amazed and ashamed with some of the views presented on this topic by few of the members.

These are the things you feel wronged on:

1. This documentary was made to dent India's image - Really? Does India have anything positive to show about women security? Do you feel the Indian women is safe?

2. This documentary makes India look like a land of rapists - It does not, but what it does, is show us a mirror that we are a nation where women are objects - you can do whatever you want and how dare they question it?

3. This documentary shows that we are the only country where such a problem persists: Never says it, never pretends to do it either.

There are problems everywhere in the world, but are we such a nation of people which cannot take criticism? We keep crying that others have done this , others have done that, it is a conspiracy against us. Never own up to anything.

The documentary has barely scratched the surface of the India we have become - you may feel outraged that a 'white person' is telling that to you, then you might as well live in a cave.
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:33   #881
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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As I mentioned, Leslie was invited to produce this documentary by an Indian producer. Please refer to the attached screenshot and link given above in this post.
I genuinely wonder why the 'Indian' producer saw it fit to invite an 'outsider' instead of making it in-house or with a local filmmaker. We have lots of talented documentary filmmakers, I know some myself and they're brilliant. What was the need to go to 'colonial' BBC (which BTW is an irresponsible comment given the BBC is one of the few remaining credible media organisations in the world)?

I'm not sure what you wanted to point out with the last part of your post, but it's a damning picture of everything that's wrong with our (pseudo) democracy. Why is there a gag order on this 'Indian' filmmaker (if true), and by whom? And if the (unproven) claim that this person wanted out of this venture because of the realization that this could cause a furore, then I don't think they have any business dealing with sensitive material in the first place. What other reaction is a documentary on rape supposed to evoke, if not furore, indignation and (hopefully) social introspection and eventually change? Doing the right thing is never easy (esp. in this country), but is that sound justification to give up?

I've seen the issues faced by documentary filmmakers first-hand so I can empathize and even give them benefit of doubt but given the lack of any credible evidence provided (yet), this whole 'we were making it originally but we got shafted' story sounds too much like the other person developed cold feet and is now trying to claim credit, but is too afraid to even reveal their name(s). Also, why haven't they approached the BBC claiming ownership of concept/content? All the social media posturing is fine, but what procedural steps have they taken, if any? What (or who) is stopping them from taking the filmmaker (or even BBC) to the cleaners for wrongdoing, if there's any? Facebook can get you 'likes', not justice. Why not follow due process?

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.......I wonder when,if at all, men like the one here will change

https://www.facebook.com/logical.ind...type=1&theater.....
Horrendous and shameful!

I wonder what would have happened if a 'foreign' journalist happened to be in the vicinity and this incident showed up on 'their' media.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 12th March 2015 at 16:52.
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:39   #882
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

Forgetting the (un)intended consequences of the documentary like the german professor incident,I wonder when,if at all, men like the one here will change

https://www.facebook.com/logical.ind...type=1&theater

Unfortunately,we as a society have deep disrespect towards women which is why some men will always feel its their right to "teach women a lesson".
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:48   #883
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

It is nitpicking when someone claims that in journalism "rules of engagement" reigns supreme. Am not in favour of breaking laws, but tell me, where in the world investigative journalism happens without trampling on laws? What about sting operations? Any credible journalist will go after the content.

Again, the nitpicking is just to circumvent the real issue.
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Old 12th March 2015, 17:14   #884
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'Respect Women' is echoed throughout the country whenever there is a crime against that gender.

But people don't give a second glance to one major crime that is the foundation of making women seem inferior to men and making the gender not wanted in many families. Dowry.

I am sure many here would have gotten it while marrying. Wonder what is their justification for that.

I am not talking of the harassment happening after the marriage. That is well publicized. I am mentioning the cases where a whole new house is setup when the girl is getting married to a groom.

That is one crime that I can attribute to the most of the Indians. The others here are more of an exception rather than a rule even though it is a tragic.

Last edited by SchumiFan : 12th March 2015 at 17:19.
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Old 12th March 2015, 19:53   #885
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

^^^Hopefully someone (Indian or otherwise) will make a documentary on that evil too (maybe many already exist) and then we can have another debate on whether it showcases India as a dowry-hungry nation to the world.

There is a WhatsApp joke (actually a jpeg) doing the rounds, which goes something like this.
Lifecycle of a Malayalee : [Born] -> [What will people say] -> [Died]

Which tries to bring out the Malayalee's (maybe applies to other Indians too) constant worry about what others think about him or his actions.

All this talk of how the world will see India as a land of rapists, after seeing the documentary is what comes to mind.
Guys, the world has better things to do than worry about India. Just like we have better things to do than worry about them & what is happening in their country.
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