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Old 12th March 2015, 20:16   #886
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
You refer to this as merely a sensation?

Well, takeout the sensational content - like Nirbhaya stating to her family that she is sorry for the trouble she brought out to the family, just before dying, OR the crude statements from rapist and his lawyer, from this so called documentary - and then see what viewership it commands.

Actually, this documentary was hard-marketed for commanding large viewership by making rapist's statements public - much before actual release date.

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And do you also feel that if not for this film the world does not know about the plight of women in India? Women from a variety of countries have been subjected to rape in India - Russians, Swedes, Japanese, etc. You imagine embassies are unaware, and they consider India safe for women?
Open your eyes, and look around.
This documentary does not reach to the target audience (Indian uneducated public), other part of world already know about plight of women in India. Then what was the purpose of this documentary other than creating sensation?

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As for the documentary and as far as BBC is concerned, this is just another series for them on a particular topic;
So you are suggesting that BBC has already made series of documentaries titled "Daughter of America", "Daugher of Englend", Daughter of Saudi Arabia" and in turn made "Daughter of India"? or Daughter of India was first of its kind, and similar documentaries for other countries are in pipeline. Please enlighten us.


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However, in India, pretending that this issue does not exist is being hypocritical.
I never denied existence of issue, I only say - documentary is not for addressing the issue, but for creating sensation.
Indian public has been already aware and active, there is some effect on lethargic judiciary, some interesting changes are happening (like live-in relationships are now within purview of rape law) - no body says issue does not exist. I do not know whom you are painting hypocritical.

On the other side, BBC is not hypocritical by disrespecting a ban by a sovereign nation, lady director is not hypocritical while giving a platform to a rapist to present his viewpoint.

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Now that's an excellent post to put things in perspective. Well-said!
BBC documentary or not, all the world already knows about how unsafe India is for women
What is the purpose of the documentary then? If not awareness then sensation?


On a totally different aspect, most of the members here agree that issue is with Indian male mentality, which probably cuts across all sections of Indian male population. Also, part of the women population is pardons rape by their menfolk.
A hypothetical question what if in a two party poll scenario, one party opposes to consider a rape as a crime (in line with current projection of male mentality) while second party is asking for severe punishment for rape considering it a serious crime. Which party would get most votes?

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Old 12th March 2015, 20:37   #887
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It is nitpicking when someone claims that in journalism "rules of engagement" reigns supreme. Am not in favour of breaking laws, but tell me, where in the world investigative journalism happens without trampling on laws? What about sting operations? Any credible journalist will go after the content.

Again, the nitpicking is just to circumvent the real issue.
Only that this documentary is not really a piece of investigative journalism. You don't seek official permissions to shoot a sting operation. Once you acquire a permission from a govt body basis certain conditions, you ought to be fair and fulfill your part of the deal.

It would be really important now to mention again, in case it's not caught your attention, that authorities asked again and again for unedited footage of the shoot as per conditions of the permission, but those repeated pleas were ignored.

Brushing this under the carpet in the name of 'investigative journalism' would be setting a bad precedence for future abuses and just think about the trust deficit that authorities will have when some other journalist seeks permissions next time.

Last edited by 1lokesh : 12th March 2015 at 20:45.
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Old 12th March 2015, 21:09   #888
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

What I have seen so far is that the ban brigade is sure one one thing: that the documentary is rightfully banned. But they are not sure what reason should be attributed to it.

So they begin with: "It shows the country in poor light".

Once that is countered, they shift the post to: "It gives a platform to the rapist".

When that gets countered: "Let them fix their country first".

And then: "It is sensationalist".

Then: "They flouted the law making it".

See the drift?

They just nitpick, because they know that apart from their false pride they don't have a real reason to tell. And the guilt needs to be hidden. Looked away from.

As the saying goes: "Out of sight, is out of mind". Just close the eyes and be happy that it is alright.
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Old 12th March 2015, 21:19   #889
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
What I have seen so far is that the ban brigade is sure one one thing: that the documentary is rightfully banned. But they are not sure what reason should be attributed to it.

So they begin with: "It shows the country in poor light".

Once that is countered, they shift the post to: "It gives a platform to the rapist".

When that gets countered: "Let them fix their country first".

And then: "It is sensationalist".

Then: "They flouted the law making it".

See the drift?

They just nitpick, because they know that apart from their false pride they don't have a real reason to tell. And the guilt needs to be hidden. Looked away from.

As the saying goes: "Out of sight, is out of mind". Just close the eyes and be happy that it is alright.
People have listed multiple reasons against documentary. However, in your opinion, there should be only one reason against it!
OR, 'ban brigade' should have compiled all the reasons and posted in one go and then should have gone silent!

Also, as per your opinion 'ban brigade' wants to close their eyes and ban all news on this rape case or any other rape case!
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Old 12th March 2015, 22:23   #890
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
This was very interesting. But I am unable to verify its authenticity.

Searched using the dates and Macualay
http://www.portcullis.parliament.uk/

I have a strong feeling this might be a hoax. Can you please verify its authenticity.
There may be parts of society that agree with that. Some would argue that the British website would probably document colonisation of India as a mere Business Transaction.

However, I humbly apologise for making an unverified comment. I don't intend to harbour extreme feelings about any country.

Maybe I was abit impulsive when I felt bad about how all Indian men were are being targeted. Apologies.

Last edited by WorkingGuru : 12th March 2015 at 22:31.
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Old 13th March 2015, 09:30   #891
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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Originally Posted by JLS View Post
People have listed multiple reasons against documentary. However, in your opinion, there should be only one reason against it!
OR, 'ban brigade' should have compiled all the reasons and posted in one go and then should have gone silent!

Also, as per your opinion 'ban brigade' wants to close their eyes and ban all news on this rape case or any other rape case!
You missed this:

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
See the drift?
There is an Asterix book which I read long ago in which Asterix, Obelix and Dogmatix are returning from hunt with 2 dead boars, when they come across a roman patrol. A fight ensues and the Romans are beaten to pulp. Back at the camp, the Romans are asked what had happened to them. One guy says: We were attached by two Gauls. When others start laughing, another guy adds: "and there were two boars". A third guy says: "and a dog too".

I don't remember the exact story, but as I said above: "Do you get the drift"?

All the reasons given by the ban brigade are frivolous, and they are hoping that all those reasons would add up and lend credibility to their call for ban.

The real reasons are buried deep inside, and you don't want to let it out.
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Old 13th March 2015, 09:34   #892
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

There is no point in endlessly arguing! Sensational documentaries like these presenting us badly will make an impact at international level and have repercussions elsewhere. The denial of seat to an Indian male student at Germany is a case in point.

It will also hurt the economy badly. The tourism sector comes to mind immediately.

The most vociferous support for this film comes from those working in the IT sector, from what I have seen. Let H1B visas be denied on this count, and then we will see what tune they sing!
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Old 13th March 2015, 09:43   #893
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

I may add that reading about the ban reminded me of King Camelot ordering the waves back. Another interesting point was the media reporting that it has been blocked but is still accessible using a proxy server!
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Old 13th March 2015, 11:05   #894
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

Well if there is this hypothesis of a "ban brigade" then there is also this "propaganda brigade" that will just blindly follow "self proclaimed liberals" to be a screaming part of the same tribe without actually knowing what real problem is. They would relentlessly brag about
1. Freedom of expression and then
2. Mirror to the society and then
3. Poor safety ranks of India and then
4. Investigative journalism and then
5. Stereo typing differing views as a "ban brigade"

My humble submission is please get back to the point when you are done with unnecessary name calling. Healthy discussions would warrant you to present facts, logic and reasoning rather than medieval stories which rarely connect back to current topic. Referring to Gauls and Romans and Boars and Dogs would only deteriorate the discussions and "drift" away from the main issue here.
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Old 13th March 2015, 11:50   #895
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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I may add that reading about the ban reminded me of King Camelot ordering the waves back. Another interesting point was the media reporting that it has been blocked but is still accessible using a proxy server!
I think you meant King Canute. But your point is nevertheless valid. I would have no trouble watching this film in HD within the comfort of my home should I choose to. (I did not watch it only because I knew it would make me extremely angry). Frankly I don't see what business the government has to dictate what I may or may not watch and I wonder how long it will take them to realize that the supreme arrogance of such an action is matched only by its futility.
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Old 13th March 2015, 11:53   #896
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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I think you meant King Canute. But your point is nevertheless valid. I would have no trouble watching this film in HD within the comfort of my home should I choose to. (I did not watch it only because I knew it would make me extremely angry). Frankly I don't see what business the government has to dictate what I may or may not watch and I wonder how long it will take them to realize that the supreme arrogance of such an action is matched only by its futility.
Yes, I did mean King Canute. Thanks for correcting me. I was wondering why a Google search was not throwing up more information.

@1lokesh; Of the English TV Media, only Times Now favoured a ban, others were for no ban. My own reaction was let the viewer decide whether he wants to see it or no. I downloaded it and saw it, nothing prurient in the whole thing. Quite decent, but for the talk of the convict, and shockingly his lawyers. What also hit me again was the police brutality against the demonstrators.

All that this hullabaloo has achieved is to give it popularity. Otherwise Channel 4 documentaries are watched by maybe 200,000 and then buried in history. I have myself had quite a few requests for the recording.

It is odd that I am siding with many I may dislike and even detest, M Tewari, Sanjay Hedge, N Ram, ... Yes, I am a liberal in certain matters, but even more so am all for individual choice.

Last edited by sgiitk : 13th March 2015 at 11:58.
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Old 13th March 2015, 12:16   #897
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

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The British have only one agenda, to attack, defame & ruin the social structure of India.
Attachment 1348861
I tend to think that this is a huge baloney.
India always had beggars and thieves and robbers.
And petty warring kings and emperors simply illustrate that people WERE after riches and power and territory (nothing much different from people of today).
Corruption was also very much prevalent.

The only thing true in that piece of McCaulay's address is how to create demand for English goods. Because they wanted to establish trade with India, but not pay in gold/silver/bullion, therefore the desired way to buy pepper would be to barter with something else: tea and opium perhaps?
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Old 13th March 2015, 12:56   #898
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-british-rape/

United Kingdom's Daughters !
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Old 13th March 2015, 13:04   #899
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

Just hang the culprit and set an example. No ifs and buts and debates if the rapist would kill the women in such cases and all those useless stuff. Instill fear by hanging offenders as soon as the judgment is out after a fair trial. Period.
Other criminals like murderers will also justify their killing and incidentally some will probably subscribe to their reasoning as well. This does not mean that I should listen to what the murderer has to say.

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Old 13th March 2015, 13:06   #900
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Default Re: The Delhi Bus Rape Case. UPDATE: Ram Singh Suicide, 4 others sentenced to death

All that the government achieved with the ban is getting more people to watch it. I was in an Uber Go last night in Delhi and the driver asked me if I had watched the ''Nirbhaya movie'' and how he felt that chaps like Mukesh Singh should be hanged. He had it on his phone. His friends had seen it. His family had seen it. So whatever the government was trying to achieve by banning the film clearly didn't work.

Oh, and about the bad impression of India and its attitude towards rape, and people bringing up the fact that rape happens all over the world, yes it does. But in India the statistics are heavily under-reported.

Do women feel safe in indian cities? That's what we should be debating. Not statistics.
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