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Old 17th February 2013, 21:14   #136
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
I've flown the MiG 21, MiG 27, Mirage 2000 and instructed on the HPT 32, HJT 16 and the HAWK AJT.
Interesting planes!

The whole procurement of the Hawk by the IAF was an interesting process to say the least. I remember that close to the contract signing or just after it, Bill Clinton threw a wobble. Not sure what India was doing, tension with Pakistan or so, but the US wouldn't allow any parts of the Hawks destined for India to be American.

The BAE design and engineering team more or less overnight changed out all American bits for various others. Lots of electronics, parts of the landing gear, generator etc. In the end I believe that proved to be not a bad thing. As the American GPS got swapped out for the French Sargent units. And they were also Glonass capable. With all the MIGs out here that must have been familiar.

One of the very few jets that I know of which the weapons system computers is capable of handling just about any type or brand of weapons. From American, to Uk, German, French. You order your Hawk with the respective pylons and the weapon system will be fully functional.

Amazing plane, they never stopped developing it really. From the initial Trainer only version to the latest multi role version. There's even a version capable of carrier operations.

And remember the most famous aerobatic display team in the world, the Red Arrows, fly Hawks. As far as I recall they are still flying the original T-1, although I seem to recall they will be replaced in the near future?

I don't know much about the MIGs or the Mirage though. I've seen plenty of them at various airshow and museums in Europe though.

Jeroen
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Old 18th February 2013, 16:04   #137
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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When you fly manually, you go through the same motion, fly by wire or not. In such a scenario, ie engine out, hand flying, and with fly by wire, you could envisage that the computers once they detect an engine malfunction occurs, start dialing in rudder, elevator, aileron to trim out any yaw. But I would think that it is counter intuitive for a pilot flying manual. This could lead to the pilot overcompensating,and could lead to Dutch roll or worse.

There are many engine problem scenario's where running the engine at reduced power settings or even at idle, are preferred to shutting down all together. Purely for safety measure. What I got drilled into me by Lufthansa flight school is:
- First of all, deal with the emergency and stabilize the situation
- Two, plan ahead on what would happen if the next failure occurs.

So keeping one engine running even on idle is a good preventive measure in case something happens to engine number two and you might have to shut it down all together. To a large extent you can program this. But under these circumstances, it comes down to pilot discretion and decision. Maybe run an engine into the ground, but maintain standby electrical and hydraulic power. And for that you need manual control of the engine, manual monitoring of the engine parameters. So how do you do that in the Rafale, or is it all programmed into the flight management computers?

Jeroen
Hi sir,

first of all, I am no expert aviator. Just baby experience during NCC days flying prop a/c's and Jet lessons received from my Commanding Officer. Secondly, personal work experience on FBW systems for Airbus/EADS aircrafts (includes fighters). So consider me more an engineer than a pilot!

While designing a FBW we do define max and min saturation limit to avoid PIO's (Pilot Induced Oscillations or overcorrections). Espcially in aircrafts with negative stability such as fighters, these factors are looked much more carefully and are usually defined to us by the design and flight test team.

So irrespective of auto/manual limits are always there.

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Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
I've flown the MiG 21, MiG 27, Mirage 2000 and instructed on the HPT 32, HJT 16 and the HAWK AJT.
Now you have to tell us more about the MiG 27 experience and the ex-backbone of IAF the MiG21's! (I assume you flew all the variants of the fishbed including the "Bison" variant?)
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Old 18th February 2013, 16:50   #138
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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I've flown the MiG 21, MiG 27, Mirage 2000 and instructed on the HPT 32, HJT 16 and the HAWK AJT.
Aaj to raaz pe raaz khul rahe hain!

So what's up pilot? I think you can write an autobiography that our members will lap up for sure... as long as your organization or the employer has no concerns about.

Last edited by Zappo : 18th February 2013 at 16:51.
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Old 18th February 2013, 19:15   #139
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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Aaj to raaz pe raaz khul rahe hain!

So what's up pilot? I think you can write an autobiography that our members will lap up for sure... as long as your organization or the employer has no concerns about.
Maybe someday..but the kind of response threads on the Armed Forces have got previously (remember the one by NanduChitnis) has be a bit worried and hence I am waiting for the right time.
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Old 20th February 2013, 09:54   #140
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

Thanks for thee explanation Jeroen and Neel, I did not understand much but it definitely gave me an idea
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The flame that you see in the pictures are the afterburner flames. More on afterburners here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterburner . The flame colour will depend on the efficiency of the afterburner system as brought out by Sandy X with a more efficient afterburner system producing a hotter and hence bluer flame. The Su 30 is powered by the Al 31 family of engines which are considered to be highly efficient and hence you will generally see blue afterburner flames in this aircraft. During harsh maneuvering however, the aircraft operates at very high Angles Of Attack (AOA) because of which a certain ammount of engine intake blanking can take place leading to a drop in engine efficiency and hence a more orange flame. In case of multi engine fighters, both the intakes may be operating at different AOA and hence blanking conditions and hence you might see a difference in the flame colour in the two engines.



While traditionally multi engine aircraft had seperate throttles for each engine, in modern fighters, the throttle simply acts a a thrust demand lever which is connected to the Engine Control Computer which independently controls the engines. In such fighters there is a single throttle as in the Rafale.


Interesting, I did not know that. So I guess any problems with one of the engine is all dealt with through automation? I guess asymmetric thrust is not a big deal on these jets as both engines are so close to the centerline of the plane anyway.

But still, could you for instance run one engine on idle and the other on full power? Maybe I'm just thinking to much from a GA/commercial airline pilot persepctive where on a twin that would still be the preferred option over running just one engine. If one engine runs hot, you throttle back, but as long as you can keep it running you keep it running.

Jeroen
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Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
Most of the modern generation fighters are Fly by Wire which further makes the job of handling asymmetric thrust easier.



In a fighter with both the engines close to the centerline, I do not really see the requirement, though in older multiengine fighters, pilots had to manage throttles separately, specially when the thrust of both the engines were not the same resulting in yaw. In modern fighters, the thrust of both are matched by the Engine Computer(ECU). In certain Thrust Vectored Aircraft, the ECU is known to adjust the thrust from both the engines separately in consonance with the pilots manoeuvre demands.

In the case one engine malfunctions, the ECU will take over and try to recover the engine, failing which the engine will be shut down with associated warnings to the pilot. Does it really matter if the pilot does the job manually as with two throttles or the ECU does the work for him?
Your experience on flying Migs and Mirage and also on how pilots are instructed will get many of us hooked to the thread am sure, will be looking forward to your thread on them
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Maybe someday..but the kind of response threads on the Armed Forces have got previously (remember the one by NanduChitnis) has be a bit worried and hence I am waiting for the right time.
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Old 20th February 2013, 09:54   #141
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

I had been there for Aero India, amazing feast for the eyes. Its good to see that IAF acquired some nice fighters. As this is my first time experience, I was on a high
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Old 20th February 2013, 14:11   #142
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
Maybe someday..but the kind of response threads on the Armed Forces have got previously (remember the one by NanduChitnis) has be a bit worried and hence I am waiting for the right time.
The tragedy with that great thread is that it is a career oriented thread and someone misinterpreted it as "mine is better than yours" kind of eulogy by Mr Chitnis and took up cudgels on him. Such a pity. Could have been worse, if it were some other forum. That sadly is the reality with internet discussion boards.


neel385, please do not let that dishearten you from writing about your career. Most people are interested in the technical aspects of your work.
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Old 11th October 2013, 13:24   #143
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
The ninth edition of Aero India 2013 will commence from 6th February 2013 and will end on 10th February 2013.
Fantastic pictures and very well detailed lukeskywalker.
Hope you won't mind me adding a few pics from my side onto the collection.

You have covered everything in detail and my pics are not half as good as yours. That would be the disclaimer.
However, more pics won't hurt anyone too right?

ALH MK III and Rudra (MK III weaponised version- Black helicopter)

Aero India 2013 - Pictures-dscn4300.jpg

LCH- tandem cockpit attack helicopter by HAL in the backdrop of US Airforce- KC 135 refueller

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KC 135 Refueler

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Rotor head, intake frames and the evergreen Chetak

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Cheetah- the workhorses of high Altitudes

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LCH- side profile

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The unique looking aircraft on ground

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The Black Knights- Pre flight

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Rudra in action

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The Red bulls... The leader of the formation is a lady, 54 yrs of age!!

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Inverted...!!!

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Interesting... Two of them are inverted

Aero India 2013 - Pictures-dscn4374.jpg

Aero India 2013 - Pictures-dscn4375.jpg

Last edited by dhanushmenon : 11th October 2013 at 13:27.
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Old 11th October 2013, 13:35   #144
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

Continued...

LCH in action

Aero India 2013 - Pictures-dscn4403.jpg

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The Black Knights... as tight as it can get

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Aero India 2013 - Pictures-dscn4464.jpg

The sarang made their entry then....

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High speed run

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And then the split...

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Aero India 2013 - Pictures-dscn4513.jpg
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Old 12th October 2013, 08:30   #145
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Default Re: Aero India 2013 - Pictures

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The Black Knights... as tight as it can get
Those Su-27s belong to the Russian AF's demo team - Russian Knights.
The Black Knights are Singapore AF's demo team flying six F-16Cs.
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Old 12th October 2013, 09:11   #146
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Those Su-27s belong to the Russian AF's demo team - Russian Knights.
The Black Knights are Singapore AF's demo team flying six F-16Cs.
Thanks. I stand corrected
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