Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th March 2013, 18:03   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
xingamazon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,399
Thanked: 107 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

OMG, I am reminded of the hype and the pride Bhuvan had generated during its launch.

ISRO had declared we can get better accuracy than Google map. !!!

There were lot of people who suddenly assumed ISRO is a cool organization. Some even predicted demise for Google Maps in India. But we all know how Bhuvan launch went, I dont expect ISRO's Sat-nav to be any different.

I checked Bhuvan recently, and as expected it still looks the same..
http://bhuvan-noeda.nrsc.gov.in/proj.../municipal.php
xingamazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2013, 18:21   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
I too would like to understand the business model of GPS satellites. I have a turn-by-turn navigation system preloaded to my Moto Milestone. So I have already paid Motorola for the software and map. Who pays for the uplinking and data transmission between phone and satellite when I use this navigation system?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
The GPS receiver manufacturers pay a "royalty" to the GPS firm via the "chip".
Different chip = different resolution = different royalty paid.
Of course even I am not aware of the actual money flow.



There is no Upload to satellite.
Imagine the GPS satellite as clouds raining their signal (coordinates and time) down on earth.
Your receiver catches these "rain drops" from multiple satellite, and calculates the latitude/longitude/elevation on earth.
The phone downloads the google map using internet, and marks your position based on the latitude/longitude calculated.
In case of Nokia, you may the map pre-loaded on your phone/device.
All these signals are encrypted. Obviously in this age of super fast computers, every encryption can stay secure only for a while. from wikipedia.

Quote:
Initially, the highest quality signal was reserved for military use, and the signal available for civilian use was intentionally degraded (Selective Availability). This changed with President Bill Clinton ordering Selective Availability to be turned off at midnight May 1, 2000, improving the precision of civilian GPS from 100 meters (330 ft) to 20 meters (66 ft).
vivekiny2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2013, 19:49   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,920
Thanked: 5,779 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Any idea what is the business model for satellite navigation? What i mean to ask how does an organisation that runs the satellite earn money? I understand GPS & GLONASS are essentially military in character, but GALILEO is a civilian initiative, so how will it make money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
I too would like to understand the business model of GPS satellites. I have a turn-by-turn navigation system preloaded to my Moto Milestone. So I have already paid Motorola for the software and map. Who pays for the uplinking and data transmission between phone and satellite when I use this navigation system?

On GPS and Glonass you have to thank the respective governments of the USA and Russia. Or to be more precise; the respective tax payers. Because these organizations do not make money they only spent it!

Galileo is slightly different. All of its current (development) cost are coughed up by the various EC Governments and the European Space Agency, ie the EC tax payer. The basic Galileo services will be free of charge identical to GPS.

Galileo offers a number of features/services above and beyond providing position (i.e. the basic free of charge function). The idea is that for these other functions/features commercial models will be developed. I'm very skeptical about this. Just my opinion.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_gps Which if anything provides an interesting historical perspective of the funding. Which, as usual for these Mega Government run projects reads like a horror story!

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 01:16   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulkool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,250
Thanked: 484 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

All latest phones and devices support glonass because if you want to sell the product in Russia it has to compatible with glonass.
Rahulkool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 06:56   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,920
Thanked: 5,779 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
All latest phones and devices support glonass because if you want to sell the product in Russia it has to compatible with glonass.
Technically not necessarily, because GPS works in Russia as well. I guess it's more a marketing thing that appeals to the Russians.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 09:18   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
joybhowmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,314
Thanked: 1,885 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
All these signals are encrypted. Obviously in this age of super fast computers, every encryption can stay secure only for a while. from wikipedia.
Selective availability (refers to your quote from wiki) and encryption of GPS signal are two very different things.
Selective availability refers to a less accurate signal (degraded signal) being made available for public use, whereas the more accurate signal was reserved for military use.

The equivalent military use signal was encrypted - but that's of course a different matter - quite unrelated to the generation of a degraded signal for public use.

Selective availability has been abolished since May 2000, following US Presidential decree.

Source: http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/
joybhowmik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 09:28   #22
BHPian
 
rrsteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 144022
Posts: 918
Thanked: 817 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post

On GPS and Glonass you have to thank the respective governments of the USA and Russia. Or to be more precise; the respective tax payers. Because these organizations do not make money they only spent it!

Galileo is slightly different. All of its current (development) cost are coughed up by the various EC Governments and the European Space Agency, ie the EC tax payer. The basic Galileo services will be free of charge identical to

Jeroen
It is confusing. Russian company NIS - GLONASS has just invested in a branded showroom in Delhi. And it will open 2 more such showrooms in India. I wonder it is the purpose of this.
rrsteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 10:11   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,920
Thanked: 5,779 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
It is confusing. Russian company NIS - GLONASS has just invested in a branded showroom in Delhi. And it will open 2 more such showrooms in India. I wonder it is the purpose of this.
Not difficult to find out: Have a look at their website:
http://www.nis-glonass.in/nis-glonass/

The way I read it is they will be trying to sell commercial services based on location/position. They're targetting the usual segments; car manufacturers, transport sector, emergency services, public toll road institutions etc.

Most of these services are based on some sort of tracking mechansim which obviously uses GLONASS for its position.

There is a variety of these type of services operational in Europe, the US and propably some Far East countries.

For instance in my home country the Netherlands the govermemant was seriously considering replacing our road tax (you need to pay a fixed monthly fee for every car on the road) by a GPS based system where you would be charged not a fixed fee but on the basis of actual miles travelled. Where and when you would travel would be charged differently (e.g. more expensive during rush hour etc). Eventually, they did not pursue, but there is a whole host of applications you can think of it that are based on your position.

Companies like Fedex are already using tracking system so they know every second where there trucks/parcels are, etc. etc.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 10:26   #24
BHPian
 
rrsteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 144022
Posts: 918
Thanked: 817 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Not difficult to find out: Have a look at their website:
http://www.nis-glonass.in/nis-glonass/

Companies like Fedex are already using tracking system so they know every second where there trucks/parcels are, etc. etc.

Jeroen
In Europe& US , Insurance telematics is another area where such services are employed.

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking that GLONASS is just an equivalent of GPS - a GNSS signal. So I thought how was it earning money by just providing a GNSS signal, which different devices latch on to?
rrsteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 10:54   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulkool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,250
Thanked: 484 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Technically not necessarily, because GPS works in Russia as well. I guess it's more a marketing thing that appeals to the Russians.

Jeroen
Its not needed technically i know that but its done by Russian government. To make their system more popular.

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

Quote:
To improve development of the user segment, on August 11, 2010, Sergei Ivanov announced a plan to introduce a 25% import duty on all GPS-capable devices, including mobile phones, unless they are compatible with GLONASS. As well, the government is planning to force all car manufacturers in Russia to make cars with GLONASS starting from 2011. This will affect all car makers, including foreign brands like Ford and Toyota, which have car assembly facilities in Russia.

Last edited by Rahulkool : 19th March 2013 at 10:57.
Rahulkool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 10:57   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,920
Thanked: 5,779 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
In Europe& US , Insurance telematics is another area where such services are employed.

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking that GLONASS is just an equivalent of GPS - a GNSS signal. So I thought how was it earning money by just providing a GNSS signal, which different devices latch on to?
Correct all GLONASS does is provide a location, just like GPS. There some differences in how they do it, accuracy and such. But it is position information nothing else. So its really up to these sort of companies to develop business models that do something with the position information.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 11:02   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,920
Thanked: 5,779 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Its not needed technically i know that but its done by Russian government. To make their system more popular.

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS
Just noticed this too. Well, free market is an unknown concept in many parts of the world. Whether its good or bad is a matter of debate.

Plenty of examples where even the capitalistic good old US of A doesnt really adhere to the free market principles and protects its own!

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2013, 12:00   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
nilanjanray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,808
Thanked: 2,221 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

India has an agreement with Russia to use military grade GLOSSNAS signals. Hedging the risks w.r.t. GPS.

I think India will eventually create its own equivalent (China is already doing that). No current or 'going-to-be' superpower - unless ready to play second fiddle - wants to be dependent on another country for such a critical thing such as satellite navigation/location services.
nilanjanray is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2013, 13:59   #29
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,048
Thanked: 3,591 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

It will be needed for the Armed Forces, so why not set one up!
sgiitk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2013, 14:52   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,469
Thanked: 697 Times
Default Re: India to have its own Satellite Navigation system soon!

All our modern war equipment comes from other countries. I guess if they need navigation, those countries would be offering accurate signals from their GPS satellites? not the ones used by civilians.

For anything else, I am not sure we need to have our own satellites. Our space agencies/armed forces could be selling a flawed use case to the govt. Just like other companies so that they have something to work on
srishiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Waze - Free satellite navigation for your smartphone ByDesign Gadgets, Computers & Software 420 8th June 2017 10:46
In Dash Navigation vs Navigation Module vs Separate Navigation SirAlec In-Car Entertainment 27 20th January 2014 22:19
Skoda Superb - Satellite Navigation integration? PM - B In-Car Entertainment 4 25th March 2012 18:16
Hyundai launches i20 with satellite navigation h@r$h@l The Indian Car Scene 87 3rd June 2011 13:50
2011 i10 Asta A/T - its Korean, its new, its fast, its red, and its coming. nirupesh Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 1 8th January 2011 10:45


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:03.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks