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Old 1st May 2013, 14:53   #1
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Default Video: Boeing Cargo Plane Crash @ Bagram Airfield

Well technically this accident did not take place in India but the video pertains to a Boeing cargo plane crash at Bagram airfield -Afghanistan. The horrific video was captured in the dashcam of a passing vehicle. (Courtesy - Youtube)

!

Last edited by Rajeev1 : 1st May 2013 at 14:55. Reason: Grammar correction
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Old 1st May 2013, 22:40   #2
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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Originally Posted by Rajeev1 View Post
Well technically this accident did not take place in India but the video pertains to a Boeing cargo plane crash at Bagram airfield -Afghanistan. The horrific video was captured in the dashcam of a passing vehicle. (Courtesy - Youtube)
The angle of attack is way too high for a passenger/cargo jet! Its trying to do a fighter jet kind of vertical climb and it stalled. I am mighty sure that its not pilot error, because no pilot in his right mind would take of with such high AOA! Seems like a jammed elevator and subsequent stall and the horrific crash! Or a severe turbulence(Nose Updraft) just after takeoff!

Well, someday after the investigations conclude, this could be aired on the national geographic Air crash investigation

Last edited by Rehaan : 3rd May 2013 at 16:02. Reason: Hi, please avoid quoting an entire large post. It inconveniences our small screen & mobile readers. Thanks.
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Old 1st May 2013, 23:39   #3
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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The angle of attack is way too high for a passenger/cargo jet! Its trying to do a fighter jet kind of vertical climb and it stalled. I am mighty sure that its not pilot error, because no pilot in his right mind would take of with such high AOA! Seems like a jammed elevator and subsequent stall and the horrific crash! Or a severe turbulence(Nose Updraft) just after takeoff!

Well, someday after the investigations conclude, this could be aired on the national geographic Air crash investigation
Sagar - i was following the discussions on another forum and it was being mentioned that this aircraft was carrying at least 7 military vehicles.

The thought process is that those vehicles may have broken loose during takeoff and slid to the back of the aircraft therby creating this steep AOA and the consequent crash. Like you said - the reason would be out only after a thorough investigation.
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Old 1st May 2013, 23:49   #4
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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Originally Posted by Rajeev1 View Post
a Boeing cargo plane crash at Bagram airfield -Afghanistan.
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it was being mentioned that this aircraft was carrying at least 7 military vehicles.

The thought process is that those vehicles may have broken loose during takeoff and slid to the back of the aircraft therby creating this steep AOA and the consequent crash.
Since the accident took place in Afganistan and it was carrying military cargo, militant/terrorist attacks also can't be ruled out.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 08:05   #5
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The angle of attack is way too high for a passenger/cargo jet! Its trying to do a fighter jet kind of vertical climb and it stalled. I am mighty sure that its not pilot error, because no pilot in his right mind would take of with such high AOA! Seems like a jammed elevator and subsequent stall and the horrific crash! Or a severe turbulence(Nose Updraft) just after takeoff!

Well, someday after the investigations conclude, this could be aired on the national geographic Air crash investigation
Load shift during take off was the cause.
"Several observers on the ground reported the National Air Cargo Boeing 747-400 had just lifted off and was climbing through approximately 1200 feet when it's nose sharply rose, the aircraft appeared to have stalled and came down erupting in a blaze... According to a listener on frequency, the crew reported the aircraft stalled due to a possible load shift."
It was quite painful to watch and must have been quite scary for the crew, in their last moments attempting to save their aircraft.

Last edited by skanchan95 : 2nd May 2013 at 08:10.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 08:28   #6
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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Load shift during take off was the cause.
"Several observers on the ground reported the National Air Cargo Boeing 747-400 had just lifted off and was climbing through approximately 1200 feet when it's nose sharply rose, the aircraft appeared to have stalled and came down erupting in a blaze... According to a listener on frequency, the crew reported the aircraft stalled due to a possible load shift."
It was quite painful to watch and must have been quite scary for the crew, in their last moments attempting to save their aircraft.
So the cargo was not fastened securely then? It beats me how can someone make such elementary mistake. So it means that all the cargo was not fastened properly. Because i had seen on one of the USAF shows in National geographic where in the crew had mentioned that the fastening straps are strong enough to withstand the force of two cargos ahead of it , if at all they come crashing back! Looks like a likely sabotage. Only the investigation can reveal more info!
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Old 2nd May 2013, 10:03   #7
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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So the cargo was not fastened securely then? It beats me how can someone make such elementary mistake. So it means that all the cargo was not fastened properly. Because i had seen on one of the USAF shows in National geographic where in the crew had mentioned that the fastening straps are strong enough to withstand the force of two cargos ahead of it , if at all they come crashing back! Looks like a likely sabotage. Only the investigation can reveal more info!
It probably was a case of negligence. Also, you have take note that this was a civilian Boeing 744 on military charter, so the aircrew *may not* be as well trained as their military counterparts. But that being said, such crashes have happened in the past, not only on military flights but civilian flights as well. There was one episode on NG's Air Crash Investigations, where a Beechcraft 1900D crashed after take off under similar circumstances due to weight imbalance, which had made the aircraft "tail heavy". It stalled and crashed into a Hangar.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 10:05   #8
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

Last edited by GTO : 3rd May 2013 at 13:17.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 13:16   #9
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Some of the largest air fleets are owned and operated by air freight companies, infact some fleets like Fedex, UPS, Atlas etc. are several times larger than the largest passenger air lines. A look at their safety records as also the air freight industry in general shows a very well regulated industry that is operationally far more safer than passenger airlines.

Rather than speculating let us wait for the incident report to be made public.

Meanwhile you can read some details about the crew (7 in all) & cargo here http://www.nationalaircargo.com/info...ht_NCR102.aspx

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It probably was a case of negligence. Also, you have take note that this was a civilian Boeing 744 on military charter, so the aircrew *may not* be as well trained as their military counterparts.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 13:41   #10
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

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Some of the largest air fleets are owned and operated by air freight companies, infact some fleets like Fedex, UPS, Atlas etc. are several times larger than the largest passenger air lines.
That is factually incorrect, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#By_Fleet_Size

Fedex, for example, has 654 planes (the largest in the cargo side), which would only be fifth overall after SkyWest, Delta, United and Southwest.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 13:18   #11
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Default Re: Video: Boeing Cargo Plane Crash @ Bagram Airfield

Mod Note : Air Crash video posts moved out into a new thread.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 17:18   #12
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Default Re: Video: Boeing Cargo Plane Crash @ Bagram Airfield

From the video it looks like the aircraft stalled during the takeoff. At first glance it looked like this happened due to incorrect takeoff angle in case the pilot was inexperienced, but that's unlikely.

After watching it a couple of times, I observe the plane struggling to gain control and swaying to a side during its final seconds. My guess is the plane faced some problem with one of the engines during the takeoff, which caused the stalling. Engine failure during a takeoff will give the pilot very less time to react, stalling is almost certain due to the angle of takeoff and sudden loss of thrust.

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Old 3rd May 2013, 17:27   #13
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Default Re: Video: Boeing Cargo Plane Crash @ Bagram Airfield

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
From the video it looks like the aircraft stalled during the takeoff. At first glance it looked like this happened due to incorrect takeoff angle in case the pilot was inexperienced, but that's unlikely.

After watching it a couple of times, I observe the plane struggling to gain control and swaying to a side during its final seconds. My guess is the plane faced some problem with one of the engines during the takeoff, which caused the stalling. Engine failure during a takeoff will give the pilot very less time to react, stalling is almost certain due to the angle of takeoff and sudden loss of thrust.
But the loss of thrust will not cause the nose to pitch up so rapidly! The pilots would have made some corrections to bring the nose down. Going by the high AOA, it looks like a tail heavy result!
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Old 3rd May 2013, 18:42   #14
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Default Re: Video: Boeing Cargo Plane Crash @ Bagram Airfield

A USAF KC-135 tanker goes down in Kyrgyzstan.

http://rt.com/news/us-plane-crashes-kyrgyzstan-771/

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A US military cargo plane carrying fuel has crashed at the Kazakhstan-Kyrgyzstan border shortly after taking off from American air force base at Manas. The search operation for the aircraft and crewmembers is underway.

The KC-135 refueling tanker lost contact with the US Transit Center, deployed at Manas International Airport outside Bishkek at 2:30pm local time (08:30 GMT) between Chorgolu and Cholok-Aryk - two villages in the Chuysky region of Kyrgyzstan.

The airplane reportedly caught fire as it hit the ground. According to the Emergency Situations Ministry it had broken into three pieces when it crashed into an uninhabited area.

The Pentagon and US Central Command confirmed the information about the plane crash.

The search and rescue operations are currently underway. There is no information about casualties.

"We did not see a parachute or anything like that. That is why we think that the airplane crewmembers are dead," local people told the media.

Kyrgyz Prime Minister Jantoro Satybaldyev held an emergency meeting in connection with the crash, according to media.

The Manas base is being used as a key transit center for US and allied troops since the beginning of the Afghan War in 2001. In 2009, the base was turned into a transit hub for the delivery of non-military cargo for the international coalition occupying Afghanistan. That followed a string of conflicts, prompting a significant increase in the cost of renting the base.

In late 2010, then-US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated that her country would not consider shutting down its Manas transit center until troops were pulled out of Afghanistan in 2014.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 19:01   #15
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Default Re: Video: Boeing Cargo Plane Crash @ Bagram Airfield

I saw the Bagram episode on CNN yesterday. The thoughts expressed were that it was carrying very heavy cargo, and they suspected that the cargo was not fastened properly.

The news correspondent also said that unlike civilian airfields, where 747s take of at a lower angle of ascent (take around 40 minutes to reach 30000 feet), the ones at military bases like Bagaram take of at a very steep angle to gain height rapidly. This is to avoid being fired at from the ground by enemies.

Therefore, the steep angle of ascent, coupled with improperly fastened load caused the aircraft to tip its nose up suddenly and thereby lose control.

I pity the poor pilot and crew.
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