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Old 29th July 2013, 18:25   #136
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by AbhishekB86 View Post
What country do you live in, Norway? I see Pune and I see a thread with goons attacking an innocent driver. Click new posts to view. As far as stereotypes go I can pelt 15 back at you but that's not what the thread is all about. You're crossing a line buddy let's just be a little dignified, yes?
You are free to have your own opinions bro. I am pointing out what is universally accepted about the police-citizenry dynamic the world over. I can of course quote links to prove my point. What line do you find crossed, or what dignity breached? Its a statement based on fact.

A city's police reflects its citizenry. A city gets the police it deserves. The police of a city is largely made up from and by those that make up the bulk of the city. And the attitudes that are prevalent and form it.

Facts.
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:28   #137
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Interesting.
So does the board endorse summarily shooting down those that do not abide by this?
Well,I read your post couple of pages ago on age and it reiterates the fact that numbers mean nothing.

What exactly is the problem you see here - a bunch of hooligans,making merry at wee hours while clearly being inebriated,trying to use their numerical superiority when chased by the cops.They clearly thought that they could escape the law and live another day.

I don't see a problem with the way the cops dealt with it - thats exactly what cops world over would have done.Where I live,the cops wont hesitate to pull the trigger the moment they are attacked,even if its stone,its the intent to attack the cop and escape that matters.Do you really not understand the danger they posed - they could have killed a innocent person while trying to give a slip to the cops.They could have killed a cop with their stone pelting.Thank God none of that happened.

Oh and between Dear General Bikram Singh,COAS - if you are reading this board,kindly note the point.Being pelted upon by stones doesnt warrant a response with the service fire arms.Can you please add this note to the SOPs carried by your boys.

Last edited by jraj : 29th July 2013 at 18:31.
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:33   #138
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Well,I read your post couple of pages ago on age and it reiterates the fact that numbers mean nothing.

What exactly is the problem you see here - a bunch of hooligans,making merry at wee hours while clearly being inebriated,trying to use their numerical superiority when chased by the cops.They clearly thought that they could escape the law and live another day.

I don't see a problem with the way the cops dealt with it.Do you really not understand the danger they posed - they could have killed a innocent person while trying to give a slip to the cops.They could have killed a cop with their stone pelting.Thank God none of that happened.

Oh and between Dear General Bikram Singh,COAS - if you are reading this board,kindly note the point.Being pelted upon by stones doesnt warrant a response with the service fire arms.Can you please add this note to the SOPs carried by your boys.
Let me spell it out for you one more time. Read it slowly this time around to comprehend.

The job of the police is to maintain law and order.

Delhi Police failed.

The job of the police is to apprehend the culprit and bring him to justice.

Delhi Police failed.

The job of the police is NOT to be judge, jury, and executioner.

Delhi Police failed.

What are the facts?

The boy was shot in the back. While fleeing.

This was not a self-defense response in order to warrant the use of lethal force.

This was the misuse of power. "Sactioned" street rage.

Last edited by ebonho : 29th July 2013 at 18:35.
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:38   #139
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
You are free to have your own opinions bro. I am pointing out what is universally accepted about the police-citizenry dynamic the world over. I can of course quote links to prove my point. What line do you find crossed, or what dignity breached? Its a statement based on fact.

A city's police reflects its citizenry. A city gets the police it deserves. The police of a city is largely made up from and by those that make up the bulk of the city. And the attitudes that are prevalent and form it.

Facts.
Links? What links? An article by times? An editor's take? Haha. Who you do you believe? These are the same people who stand in the corner of Def Col road in a small puddle of water and point out how water logging is drowning Delhi. Who's my source? My friend at a major news channel. Does Delhi drown? Yes. Is news over the top? What do you think.

Your ignorance is baffling.

Where do they come from? Who's the quote unquote Delhiite? Do you know any? I am not one. So whos the real Delhite? 99% aren't. Who can claim Delhi to be their city of origin? Maybe a few in an area called Old Delhi.


We've had 3-4 people narrate their horror stories on that stretch including me. Do I deserve it? Do the women in this city deserve the apathy of cops post sexual assault? Are we punching and lathi charging our way to work & back? Are we beating up cars who come in our path on team bhp meets?

Do our women deserve the apathy melted out by our cops because oh..we function like that. Then why do we protest? Why do people like me bother spending 31st December 2012 in 4 degrees centigrade standing up for our friends, sisters & mothers.

Any idiot with an MP sticker can come & bully us and they do as and when they please. We're learning to stand up.

Don't tell me we deserve our cops because if your facts are so strong you would know our cops don't protect us. They are amazingly low in number and protecting the elite and the VIP's. We're the real victims my friend.

I am not at all sensitive towards the anti-Delhi sentiment but when you get personal and tell me this is what I deserve you're crossing a line.

I don't expect you to understand. Stay in your cocoon and be ignorant. God bless.
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:41   #140
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
You find something that does not ring true about it vis a vis Delhi police and the Delhi populace?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I am pointing out what is universally accepted about the police-citizenry dynamic the world over. I can of course quote links to prove my point. What line do you find crossed, or what dignity breached? Its a statement based on fact.

A city's police reflects its citizenry. A city gets the police it deserves. The police of a city is largely made up from and by those that make up the bulk of the city. And the attitudes that are prevalent and form it.
As a part of Delhi's populace / citizenry, I find your comments to be inflammatory, intentionally offensive and provocative. Whether the police acted correctly or wrongly in the situation being discussed, there is no need to troll by making comments such as the one in bold above.

The insinuation about all of Delhi's citizens (and that includes me) being corrupt / irresponsible / incompetent, is definitely crossing a line of decency.

EDIT:
@AbhishekB86: I think we are all proud to be called citizens of Delhi, wherever in the country or world our origins may be. Please don't expect people past 42 to learn about dignity if they don't know about it already.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 29th July 2013 at 18:47.
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:45   #141
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
As a part of Delhi's populace / citizenry, I find your comments to be inflammatory, intentionally offensive and provocative. Whether the police acted correctly or wrongly in the situation being discussed, there is no need to troll by making comments such as the one in bold above.

The insinuation about all of Delhi's citizens (and that includes me) being corrupt / irresponsible / incompetent, is definitely crossing a line of decency.

Thank you sir. I think our friend forgot an important rule. Let's spell it out to him.

6. No personal attacks on any member will be entertained. This includes any direct / indirect attempt at trolling. All members are part of the Team-BHP Family and any discriminating or derogatory comment will be dealt with severely.

Edit : Absolutely agree SSTraveller. I hope the gentleman understands the underlying point. You can't stereotype and indirectly troll an entire city's 'citizenery'

Last edited by noopster : 29th July 2013 at 19:35. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 29th July 2013, 18:52   #142
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

This thread has got into an unseemly shouting match that will have no winners. Leave that to Messrs Arnab Goswami and his panelists. I think we can all agree that none of us want our streets to turn into the Wild West, with policemen and speed demons taking potshots at each other. Even shooting in the air, is not warranted. What if a bullet loses trajectory and enters into someone's bedroom? Smart law enforcement is what will make us Indians very happy. Give me a choice between a good local politician and a good local policeman, and I shall take the latter, any day of the week.
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Old 29th July 2013, 19:00   #143
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Let me spell it out for you one more time. Read it slowly this time around to comprehend.

The job of the police is to maintain law and order.

Delhi Police failed.

The job of the police is to apprehend the culprit and bring him to justice.

Delhi Police failed.

The job of the police is NOT to be judge, jury, and executioner.

Delhi Police failed.

What are the facts?

The boy was shot in the back. While fleeing.

This was not a self-defense response in order to warrant the use of lethal force.

This was the misuse of power. "Sactioned" street rage.
Facts - what facts?Did you leave out the point that the biker gang pelted stones on the cops intentionally on your facts?

Can you please elaborate on how exactly do you expect the police to maintain law&order?By just blowing a whistle and charging with a lathi?
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Old 29th July 2013, 19:02   #144
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Sigh ...... so emotional, and for what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...y-deserve.html

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/76902/

http://www.iadb.org/idbamerica/archi...00e/e800f2.htm

http://www.envio.org.ni/articulo/3304

Bottom line: People get the police they deserve.

This is not me saying it. This is not me painting every Delhiite with a broad brush. This is definitely not me being provocative or trolling.

This is the opinion of senior Police officers, and administrators, and social scientists, the world over. These are just a few of many many references if you bother to look.

Suman, Abhishek, SS, any other Delhiite who wishes to take offense where none was implied - Delhi is a city of now over 19 million souls.

The cross section of society you guys represent is probably not more than 5% of that.

Hope you understand. Delhi cops are a reflection of the Delhiite. And as one of you said, who is the typical Delhiite?

If the shoe fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jraj View Post
Facts - what facts?Did you leave out the point that the biker gang pelted stones on the cops intentionally on your facts?

Can you please elaborate on how exactly do you expect the police to maintain law&order?By just blowing a whistle and charging with a lathi?
Another fact.

These biker gangs have been a menace in Delhi for some time now.

A menace to law and order and society in general.

Who is supposed to be responsible for keeping them in check and preventing things from coming to a point where these gangs became the menace they now are?

Who is tasked with the responsibility of clamping down on these gangs?

Answer: The Delhi Police.

It is truly a sorry state of affairs if the police force of a city of 19 million needs to shoot to kill to take on a group of rowdy bikers who are drunk and are pelting stones.

It reeks of apathy and incompetence and an attitude where human life really does not mean a lot.

Last edited by noopster : 29th July 2013 at 19:36. Reason: Back-to-back posts
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Old 29th July 2013, 19:13   #145
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Sigh ...... so emotional, and for what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...y-deserve.html

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/76902/

http://www.iadb.org/idbamerica/archi...00e/e800f2.htm

http://www.envio.org.ni/articulo/3304

Bottom line: People get the police they deserve.

This is not me saying it. This is not me painting every Delhiite with a broad brush. This is definitely not me being provocative or trolling.

This is the opinion of senior Police officers, and administrators, and social scientists, the world over. These are just a few of many many references if you bother to look.

Suman, Abhishek, SS, any other Delhiite who wishes to take offense where none was implied - Delhi is a city of now over 19 million souls.

The cross section of society you guys represent is probably not more than 5% of that.

Hope you understand. Delhi cops are a reflection of the Delhiite. And as one of you said, who is the typical Delhiite?

If the shoe fits.
Bottom line : I don't know about the shoe but sense for sure fits only those who are sensible.

I will continue to take offense and will not even bother looking at your supposed facts backed by the telegraph and the likes. Could you not find any videos from India TV to drive home the point, sir?

Emotional? No. Offended? Yes. Let me ask you a question now.. why so narrow minded? Why are the doors to the expansion of your mind shut by prejudice and stereotypes?

Unless you're neighbor is posting this, it is YOU who is offending people here and it is YOU who is generalizing. It is YOU who needs a reality check. Wake up from your slumber.

The difference between those who act and you is the difference between the world and the world wide web.

I really hope the MOD team is paying attention to the issues being raised by SS Traveller and me for the benefit of the forum. Also this isn't going anywhere because we're highly deviating from the topic.

Trigger happy cops exist everywhere my friend. More so in other cities who have encounter specialists. I do not take it as a reflection of Mumbaikars. If only your ego would let you understand.
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Old 29th July 2013, 19:18   #146
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by AbhishekB86 View Post
Bottom line : I don't know about the shoe but sense for sure fits only those who are sensible.

I will continue to take offense and will not even bother looking at your supposed facts backed by the telegraph and the likes. Could you not find any videos from India TV to drive home the point, sir?

Emotional? No. Offended? Yes. Let me ask you a question now.. why so narrow minded? Why are the doors to the expansion of your mind shut by prejudice and stereotypes?

Unless you're neighbor is posting this, it is YOU who is offending people here and it is YOU who is generalizing. It is YOU who needs a reality check. Wake up from your slumber.

The difference between those who act and you is the difference between the world and the world wide web.

I really hope the MOD team is paying attention to the issues being raised by SS Traveller and me for the benefit of the forum. Also this isn't going anywhere because we're highly deviating from the topic.

Trigger happy cops exist everywhere my friend. More so in other cities who have encounter specialists. I do not take it as a reflection of Mumbaikars. If only your ego would let you understand.
I agree we are deviating from the topic at hand.

Namely the callous and high handed attitude of the Delhi Police.

Let's agree to disagree.
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Old 29th July 2013, 19:43   #147
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Mod Note: Please keep tempers in check and avoid personal attacks while commenting on what is undoubtedly a sensitive subject.
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Old 29th July 2013, 23:18   #148
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

It is truly a sorry state of affairs if the police force of a city of 19 million needs to shoot to kill to take on a group of rowdy bikers who are drunk and are pelting stones.

It reeks of apathy and incompetence and an attitude where human life really does not mean a lot.
Couldn't agree more to that.

3 cops taking on a gang of 40 is nothing but stupidity. It is not improbable that the cop who fired the gun did actually intend to shoot the victim and not the tyres. But why do we care, eh? As long as the victim is not someone we know...
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Old 29th July 2013, 23:41   #149
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

+1 Pgsagar
Last time when a group of bikers from certain community was creating mess on Delhi roads, cops were blamed for non action. If they had acted tough then, some political bugger along with bunch of jokers from media would have created hype with Police targeting certain group. Its very easy to criticize the actions of Police/Security forces.
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Old 30th July 2013, 00:27   #150
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

In such a situation the 3 cops should have:

-Called for backup
-Fired shots in the air to disperse the crowd
-Use tear gas if available

In no country's police training manual does it recommend to shoot the tire of a bike. 100cc bike tires are so thin...its like going for a bull's eye.
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