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Old 30th July 2013, 00:44   #151
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
In such a situation the 3 cops should have:

-Called for backup
-Fired shots in the air to disperse the crowd
-Use tear gas if available

In no country's police training manual does it recommend to shoot the tire of a bike. 100cc bike tires are so thin...its like going for a bull's eye.
I think they did fire in the air. If there is a mob who is attacking you in spite of firing in the air to warn them, what are the cops to assume?

I don't understand how people are condemning the polices action. Yes they are there to maintain law and order. But when people who think they are above the law, start attacking our law enforcement forces, are they supposed to sit there and watch? They fired shots in the air, and if in spite of that people continued pelting stones or whatever at them then they are justified in firing at the bike.

I don't think we have enough correct information to come to any conclusions. We do not even know whether the duo on the bike threw something at the cops and then tried to flee? That is another possibility.

I think the Police deserve the benefit of the doubt here. Yes, some may be corrupt, etc, but I don't think any one will really take out his gun and fire without enough provocation. The Police are not Salman Khan in some movie to indiscriminately fire at civilians.

I think in any other country if police is attacked I'm sure they will do the same thing which happened here.
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Old 30th July 2013, 00:51   #152
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
, are they supposed to sit there and watch?
Maybe they should've if they cant think of anything sensible.

Turn on the TV. there are umpteen instances all over the world where a mob gets formed, protests and causes a ruckus. Do you see the police shooting into the mob and killing & maiming people??

The cops are trained on how to deal with mob. Like I said, they are supposed to call for back up among other options.
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Old 30th July 2013, 01:00   #153
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Maybe they should've if they cant think of anything sensible.

Turn on the TV. there are umpteen instances all over the world where a mob gets formed, protests and causes a ruckus. Do you see the police shooting into the mob and killing & maiming people??

The cops are trained on how to deal with mob. Like I said, they are supposed to call for back up among other options.
What if the mob went to the extent of killing them? In a city where people pull out guns and shoot toll attendants at point blank at being asked to pay toll, are the Police supposed to expect rowdy mobs who don't believe the law applies to them to stop at throwing stones?

Either way, I don't believe the Police was wrong in firing. I do believe it was an honest mistake that someone had to lose their life, and I am sure everyone including the cop wished it hadn't happened.

But it did.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 30th July 2013 at 01:01.
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Old 30th July 2013, 01:06   #154
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
What if the mob went to the extent of killing them? In a city where people pull out guns and shoot toll attendants at point blank at being asked to pay toll, are the Police supposed to expect rowdy mobs who don't believe the law applies to them to stop at throwing stones?

Either way, I don't believe the Police was wrong in firing. I do believe it was an honest mistake that someone had to lose their life, and I am sure everyone including the cop wished it hadn't happened.

But it did.
Akshay the guy was shot in the back. Which means they were fleeing. Which means they did not present any danger to the cops. The cops had the option of calling for backup, other chowkies, other intersections down the route for blockades, barriers etc., and could then have chased after the bikers if at all.

Instead the officer took his gun and shot the fleeing pillion.

He was trying to shoot out the tyres of one bike out of 40? Why?

Not even considering my earlier post about the sheer impossibility and foolishness of such a move, where even trained snipers would have missed more often than not.
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Old 30th July 2013, 01:19   #155
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Akshay the guy was shot in the back. Which means they were fleeing. Which means they did not present any danger to the cops. The cops had the option of calling for backup, other chowkies, other intersections down the route for blockades, barriers etc., and could then have chased after the bikers if at all.

Instead the officer took his gun and shot the fleeing pillion.

He was trying to shoot out the tyres of one bike out of 40? Why?

Not even considering my earlier post about the sheer impossibility and foolishness of such a move, where even trained snipers would have missed more often than not.
Sir please do consider that the biker may have done something before fleeing, considering the rest of the mob was pelting stones or whatever, and standing ground inspite of shots being fired in the air, I don't think they would randomly shoot at the one bike that tries to flee.

I really don't believe the police are that trigger happy to fire at a random biker.

Also I believe that the fact that he even tried to shoot a tyre shows the bike would have been pretty close, I don't think anyone would try and shoot a tyre from hundreds of yards away.

Again my only point is before bashing the police, lets give them the benefit of the doubt. If they had to even fire in the air it shows that they were pretty threatened. We don't hear of Police firing in the air often, so it must have been a bad scene.

Either way there isn't enough of information for any of us to come to a judgement, or to bash the police.
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Old 30th July 2013, 01:31   #156
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Sir please do consider that the biker may have done something before fleeing, considering the rest of the mob was pelting stones or whatever, and standing ground inspite of shots being fired in the air, I don't think they would randomly shoot at the one bike that tries to flee.
If the biker is fleeing then he is not an immediate threat to the police. If he is not an immediate threat to the police, then there is no need to fire at the biker or the bike to make him stop.

Circumstantially speaking, there are enough "facts" known to at least raise the question whether what the police did was justifiable or not.
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Old 30th July 2013, 02:24   #157
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Why do people take the side of a person who lost their life?

These guys were stunting on public roads which they were not supposed to do. Reports say the person riding the bike was under the influence of alcohol - He wasn't supposed to do this either.
The guy who was killed came out of his place without informing his parents - He wasn't supposed to do this either.

Cops on the other hand were less in numbers and the mob was outnumbering the cops. Cops did fire warning shots in the air but no luck. The mob started pelting stones at them, what could they do? The number of active patrolling teams would be less during nights. Cops must have had less options to choose from.

In this case, Cops deserve a benefit of doubt. Why would anybody pullout their gun and shoot somebody? They know what would be the consequences. It's just that things happened the way it wasnt supposed to happen.
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Old 30th July 2013, 06:23   #158
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Quote:
What if the mob went to the extent of killing them? In a city where people pull out guns and shoot toll attendants at point blank at being asked to pay toll, are the Police supposed to expect rowdy mobs who don't believe the law applies to them to stop at throwing stones?

Either way, I don't believe the Police was wrong in firing. I do believe it was an honest mistake that someone had to lose their life, and I am sure everyone including the cop wished it hadn't happen
THat is the very definition of a violent mob and if the cops dont know how to control it, then they dont know how to do police work
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Old 30th July 2013, 06:42   #159
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Surprised to see some people defending police shooting down a stunt biker in the back.

If they were shooting at the tyres of bikers who were fleeing, who was throwing stones?

Does police want us to believe they were doing stunt biking; police challenged them from a distance; then the bikers stopped, found stones miraculously in the night that too on Parliament street; threw them while police waited in the distance; then got onto the bike & tried to flee AND THEN police shot at them?

3rd rate movie plots have a better story than this!

I bet if at all some stone pelting was there it was done only AFTER the police shot the poor boy & then it would have not just been the bikers, but also angry locals.

Lets face it, our police is uneducated, arrogant, ill-trained, ill-equipped & inadequate to handle protests & such situations that are not violent without using excessive & proportional force, this is the issue.

This happened in capital Delhi, one of our better police forces.. imagine how much worse it would be for poor citizens in rural areas & 2nd rung towns.

Police reforms are the need of the hour; unfortunately its in the hands of the states, not the Centre & no Govt has dared/wanted to push for it so far. I hope this incident forces the hand of the Govt to do so; maybe a push from Supreme Court via a PIL will help.
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Old 30th July 2013, 09:25   #160
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Exclamation Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

To my Knowledge, the place of the incident is a VIP area. I have hardly ever seen any stones/construction material in the middle of the street in any of the VIP area(Please,correct me if i am wrong).

The picture below shows stones in the middle of the street. I still find it hard to believe the presence of stones lying there in the middle of the street.


http://www.indianexpress.com/picture...ng/3126-6.html
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:12   #161
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I think Delhi Police thought, "let's eliminate the threat before it goes out of control and starts threatening us and innocent people". Isn't that how policing supposed to work?

I wonder what would have happened if this incident had happened in a country with strict implementation of law and order. Wouldn't the policeman have received a medal for his bravery?
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:22   #162
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I think whatever happened on the night of July 27 was unfortunate. At the end of it a young life was lost. I have been following this thread closely and felt there is a need for all of us to calm down and see in what ways can we as a community make any difference.

If you are performing stunts, regardless of where you are performing OR how or what you are using (2 wheels, 4 wheels, no wheels) to perform them -- you are cheating death. Period. It is time we respect our roads and other road users.

Coming on the issue of the police firing at the bikers...I don't think there is any point in arguing on whether it was an appropriate action or not. Unless 'true' facts (example: CCTV footage, eyewitness accounts) are known/made public, it will be a pointless argument. I feel--sitting in our comfort zones, it is easy to criticize and condemn, but it is also important to look within sometimes; find solutions if at all we can.

We have been labelling the deceased as a 'victim'. I beg to differ. The real victim is his family who now have to suffer his loss for the rest of their lives. It seems his mother did not even know when he slipped out of the house while she was fast asleep.

Instead of blaming the cops or the biker himself, I feel we should give a thought to what we must 'encourage' and 'allow' in our society. If I look at the bike ads, a majority of them glorify their product's ability to pull wheelies, stoppies ...and what not! then there are shows like 'MTV stuntmania'. Yes they do display warnings and disclaimers, but are these enough? Is our youth mature enough to take these shows at pure entertainment value?

I'm sorry for a really long post....but I'll close with one final observation. On Sundays or public holidays, I often see a bunch of guys (few women too!!) on superbikes..Hayabusas, Harleys, Ninjas going in a pack to Delhi or towards Gurgaon on NH8. I have been observing them for a few years. Here's what I have come to admire about them:
  • They are always wearing their full protective gear
  • They are all wearing helmets
  • Some of them have the most capable superbikes, but still I have never found them cutting between lanes, intimidating other road users, performing wheelies, stoppies, etc.
This is the kind of biking behavior that should be enouraged and endorsed, by everyone, including manufacturers, marketing cos., entertainment cos, etc.


In contrast, I have seen the other breed of bikers that forget about safety gear, they would invariably never even wear helmets! Unruly would be an understatement to describe their behavior and attitude to other motorists. They too go in packs, but are mostly found in and around the New Delhi area. Yes, their bikes may not be as powerful, but certainly potent enough to cause serious damage to others and themselves.

It is time they learnt to appreciate 'life' a bit more than they do now!

Last edited by Masda : 30th July 2013 at 10:23.
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:24   #163
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

The one thing clear here - the masses are fed up with the recent lawlessness, some have such personal incidents with some rowdy bikers, masses want blood, they are happy they got blood, notwithstanding whose blood it was. That is inconsequential "as long as these rowdy gangs learn a lesson"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Surprised to see some people defending police shooting down a stunt biker in the back.

If they were shooting at the tyres of bikers who were fleeing, who was throwing stones?

Does police want us to believe they were doing stunt biking; police challenged them from a distance; then the bikers stopped, found stones miraculously in the night that too on Parliament street; threw them while police waited in the distance; then got onto the bike & tried to flee AND THEN police shot at them?
Exactomundo! There's a police innova chasing you sirens blazing at somewhere between 50-70 kph, you are a stunter, doing a decent speed - but you stop, dismount, pick up stones, aim, and then run? LOLMax it is!!

I am now expecting the police story to mention that there was a song and dance sequence in the middle as well, which preceded the stone throwing.

Quote:
I bet if at all some stone pelting was there it was done only AFTER the police shot the poor boy & then it would have not just been the bikers, but also angry locals.

Lets face it, our police is uneducated, arrogant, ill-trained, ill-equipped & inadequate to handle protests & such situations that are not violent without using excessive & proportional force, this is the issue.
Agree - I don't buy the argument that taking on the police allows them the right to murder in cold blood, even in advanced nations. Here's a canadian example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_G-...ummit_protests Look at the damage and the number of protesters killed.

There is also the element of the so-called stone pelting - was it to evade arrest or to actively take on the police and kill them? Police should know better and only then to respond. Clearly, a police failure here. I agree with u here.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
We all know Biker's Gangs are a menace. There were some 150 odd chaps speeding on the road. It is sad that a life is lost but they were asking for it. I expect mad stunts on the public roads to cease for quite some time.

I have no sympathy for the PUCL lady who was bleating as usual on the box last night.
Completely disagree. Rowdiness is not solved through officially sanctioned murder. They are police, not a random trigger-happy militia.

What next? All new car buyers who do triple digit TDs on the expressway should be shot dead as well? 1-2 ton vehicles are a greater nuisance at triple digit speeds, you know? All of us who drive at speeds above 100 should be shot dead too? Atleast 80% of travelogues or initial ownership reports even on a safety minded forum like TBHP have stories of folks regularly doing triple digit speeds on their cars that are patently illegal. Let's shoot those who do the saddlesore and the GQ runs too? Let's shoot dead someone who drives his car at 100 on the expressway and changes lanes quickly. Kill them. Every single one of them. Then when we are all dead, the streets would be safe, right?

Hyperbolic logic of any sort does not justify the police's taking away of a kid's right to his life, esp one that was fleeing, and not someone trying to murder a policeman.

Last edited by phamilyman : 30th July 2013 at 10:48.
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:32   #164
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

The Delhi police have challaaned over a 1000 bikers since 5th July 2013. They have also had discussions with community elders to try and curb the menance.

Even professional bikers support the police action.
http://www.firstpost.com/india/delhi...rs-993455.html

Yet, armchair critics will determine whether the police was justified in firing. They conveniently ignore the facts that these bikers were breaking the law, were attacking the cops, and got their just desserts.

I for one, am totally in support of the police in this case. I do not see any reason to mallign the police as Trigger happy, and to term this case as "Manslaughter" or "Cold blooded murder".

To those who keep harping that the guys were fleeing and should have not been shot, well, going by that convoluted logic, any criminal who is fleeing should be allowed to go, even Kasab should have been allowed to flee.
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:34   #165
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Suppose if one of the police personnel died because of the stone throw. Will this thread exist then?
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