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Old 28th July 2013, 15:08   #31
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Why don't they have any alternatives to bullets . They could use rubber bullets or tear gas to any other things . Shooting bullets is not the only solution .
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Old 28th July 2013, 17:47   #32
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I recall a case which happened near my Mumbai residence in Dahisar. There is this relatively new east- west flyover which connects the western express highway in Dahisar east to Link road at Dahisar west, near Anand Nagar. There was this menace of bikers riding at crazy speeds on the flyover and doing dangerous stunts. There had been injuries to senior citizens and innocent people crossing the roads and I had witnessed one such accident and along with some others helped take an injured senior citizen to the hospital.

I was told by a taxi driver that these monsters start racing late night from Bandra-Worli sea link and continue onto western express highway all the way till Dahisar. They bet that the winner gets to keep the loser's bike. One day, nearby residents and many members from a Marathi political outfit (very famous) gathered and hid near both ends of the flyover with bats and sticks. When these bikers entered the flyover, they were surrounded by these residents and political outfit, and beaten black and blue and handed over to the police. This nuisance stopped for a few months, but unfortunately continues to happen now.

I suspect the wheelie demons will still continue doing this even after the shootout in Delhi. If they had brains to comprehend the situation, they would not be doing this in the first place.

Note: I am not advocating citizens to take the law into their hands. But sometimes, when the establishment fails, people will resort to their own means to stop this nuisance.

Last edited by hrman : 28th July 2013 at 17:50.
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Old 28th July 2013, 18:11   #33
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
That is a very one-sided view of the situation. The police didn't go in firing indiscriminately on the bikers. It was only presumably after the bikers refused to disperse and instead starting lobbing stones at them that they resorted to firing.
It is one sided, especially when we see that the community of automotive fanatics unanimously support shooting a young boy, because he was violating traffic rules. No doubt about that that.

In the past (and in the present) the police have regularly exhibited superior mob control skills in various parts of the country. And in many of those cases, the mob were out for blood.
These are just a few young boys! Nuisance and irritant - YES.
So, should we KILL THEM? - Yes, I guess!

And about not firing indiscriminately - they say that they fired towards the tire of one bike. That one bike was inside a swarm of many bikes, all moving haphazardly. After the bullet left the gun, some other biker came in its path. I cannot believe that the trained gun user did not consider this to be a possibility!

If that's not indiscriminate - what is?

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Agree - This is lunacy! Those policemen must justify their actions or be tried for cold blooded murder.

I am sorry - life is gray and its not so simple that you can justify the equivalent of murder. It is very easy to type words sitting cocooned at your home - think of the parents who lost their child.
I do not know of a large urban center any where in the world where young boys don't get a bit unruly with there bikes. Example - Harley gangs of the US, the ghost riders of EU and many others.
And I do not know of any country which supports and appreciates shooting them.

Now I do.

Last edited by sen2009 : 28th July 2013 at 18:15.
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Old 28th July 2013, 18:30   #34
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Default Re: Police fire at bikers performing stunts in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Agree - This is lunacy! Those policemen must justify their actions or be tried for cold blooded murder.

I am sorry - life is gray and its not so simple that you can justify the equivalent of murder. It is very easy to type words sitting cocooned at your home - think of the parents who lost their child.
Err,you mean the parents who were responsible enough to let their teenage son venture out on the streets at wee hours and that too drunk and that too possibly endangering the lives of people travelling on the same road?

I really dont understand the logic here.The report says,the bunch of bikers were performing dangerous stunts not very far from the parliament circle,drunk and then not responding positively to the cops there to check them out.

What exactly do we want the cops to do?And add to that the biker gang easily out numbering the cops and trying to use it to advantage?

Last edited by jraj : 28th July 2013 at 18:34.
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Old 28th July 2013, 18:59   #35
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Default Re: Police fire at bikers performing stunts in Delhi, one dead

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Err,you mean the parents who were responsible enough to let their teenage son venture out on the streets at wee hours and that too drunk and that too possibly endangering the lives of people travelling on the same road?

I really dont understand the logic here.The report says,the bunch of bikers were performing dangerous stunts not very far from the parliament circle,drunk and then not responding positively to the cops there to check them out.

What exactly do we want the cops to do?And add to that the biker gang easily out numbering the cops and trying to use it to advantage?
Probably police could have assembled a larger force, or gotten some mob dispersing things like tear gas. Maybe they could have come back the next day with better arrangements.

But no. Because we want the cops to shoot those boys and "make an example".
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Old 28th July 2013, 19:08   #36
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Default Re: Police fire at bikers performing stunts in Delhi, one dead

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Probably police could have assembled a larger force, or gotten some mob dispersing things like tear gas. Maybe they could have come back the next day with better arrangements.

But no. Because we want the cops to shoot those boys and "make an example".
Really??The article clearly said,one patrol vehicle went to spot to check out and the bikers gave it a slip.It was another patrol vehicle which got the news and they were being pelted stones upon

Any police force anywhere in the world would do the same.When people try to overpower the cops,they would definitely retaliate - 1.to bring the situation under control 2.they too have a family to go back home to.I don't know in which country the police force would go home and come back the next day to same spot with a good plan to handle the situation.

Just look at what the responsible mother had to say here - Punit Sharma, also 19 years old, was injured in the incident. Tests conducted at the hospital show he was riding his bike under the influence of alcohol. Punit's mother said the police firing was unwarranted. "They are just kids, the police should not have fired."

Last edited by jraj : 28th July 2013 at 19:11.
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Old 28th July 2013, 19:11   #37
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Unfortunate that the cops had to fire. I feel that was a little too drastic an action. Because to me it looks very sad that the cops have to use firearms to scare away a group of bikers. They could have very well just called in more PCRs and support, used road blocks and a million other options they have access too. Using real bullets to scare them away was a very bad call, however much nuisance the bikers were creating. If this becomes a norm then I can't imagine where we will be headed as a society.
Sir, do we remember that less than two months ago a policeman lost his life while trying to stop such bikers in a "legitimate" way (and i wont term this latest incident as a revenge fight flagged by police). We all know how easy it is to vanish in thin air when we can maneuver anywhere on a bike.

Even we as citizens are entitled for self defense in case of a lethal attack on us. And with a recent firing incident, as recent as 72 hrs old at Narela (where a policeman was shot and in retaliatory fire the attacker was shot dead), do we really feel that policemen should have waited till some biker pulled up a few shots towards them? Besides, the attempt(and intention) was to immobilize the bike by shooting at tire and it is indeed sad that an unruly youth lost his life in that.
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Old 28th July 2013, 19:49   #38
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Somehow I am not regretting the loss of life. I would say good riddance. I know it is harsh on the parents who lost their child, but I also know that the child would have in all probability killed someone in a road accident. We all know how awesomely fast our judicial system is. There would have been no repercussions.

Bad thing is that this is not going to deter the idiots. The belief in the impotency of Police and Judicial system is just too deep.
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Old 28th July 2013, 20:02   #39
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Build racetracks. Build racetracks. Build racetracks.

Build then small, cheap and very accessible.
No one can promise this is the ultimate solution to all street racing, but how about having the kids release their pent up energy in a safe, controlled and productive way by developing the sport.
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Old 28th July 2013, 20:34   #40
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I don't know if killing is the solution here but people who aren't from Delhi need to face this mob to understand how they behave. Once on my way to Kitty Su at the Lalit I was abused multiple times. They wanted to instigate me to race but I swallowed my pride and gave no reaction. These aren't 5 or 10 bikes but many.. So many that they form lines behind each other when stationary and block central roads leading up to Connaught Place.

These guys assemble outside Goldakkhana and those familiar with CP and India gate will know there are several ways to escape. The India gate circle is immense and it isn't like a straight road. In fact the whole area is round. They always manage to disperse. They perform stunts in the middle of the road and the cops chase 1-2 but most manage to get away. Do you think they have any fear of the police? They do so to irritate the cops so as to seek thrill in the chase and the getaway.

As I have noticed most of these guys belong to areas ranging between Punjabi Bagh to Karol Bagh. Also how long does it take for a pillion rider to jump out and break a barricade of a road where are no cops? We all know how our bikers can squeeze out of places and climb things that would put 4/4s to shame.

This nonsense has gone on for too long now. A simple thing like picking up someone from the New Delhi station at midnight sometimes becomes an intimidating experience thanks to these idiots.

The police could have been better prepared to tackle them since the menance is almost years old but they were not. Another perspective is that in most countries when people get violent self defense is a legitimate response.

I hope this serves as a wake up call to those guys. They have harassed enough number of women, children and men every night for years now. They need to stop.
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Old 28th July 2013, 22:02   #41
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

1) Whatever be the crime of these bikers, killing a human for this is simply unacceptable.
2) Shooting at a tyre using a real gun was the most foolish thing a police could have done. And as some one said its not a 6" car tyre, its just a 3-3.5 inch tyre which was a moving target.It can be that the police lost his aim and wheelie is a cover-up story.
3) In self defense if police have acted to kill the biker when he was not carrying a weapon, then what should the police and army personnel do in Kashmir and other critical areas. Are they allowed so easily to fire?
4) Bikers nuisance is not new to Delhi police and has been going on for long,why were they not ready to tackle this menace with non-lethal weapons?
Few other points:
1) Were the bikers innocent, no not at all. A group of 150 hooligans endangering safety of other road users and also of women and family people is simply not acceptable.
2) Should the police be strict on such people? Yes off-course I mean very very strict, but killing a human doesn't justify here. Let us be truthful how many of us guys have not done wheelies and have driven fast enough to endanger other peoples life and limb? Do we justify to be killed for the same reason? Just because the guy belonged to a group of say 100-150 bikers, can we justify his killing.

Personally I am a biker too and although I have not tried wheelies but sometimes I have gone near 70-80 kmph on street roads (not very crowded, calculated risk) and I think its enough to kill a pedestrian. So do I deserved to be killed. I just cant accept it. But still I feel that yes I was wrong at sometimes.
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Old 28th July 2013, 22:24   #42
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Was the police right in shooting which resulted in murder of a hooligan - A big No.

Have those miscreants been troubling residents - For the past couple of years & has been shown n number of times of Zee/Aaj tak & other NCR based news channels. Even I recall it seeing every 4-6 months.

This issue has been for long and I think Administration & Government should have handled this much earlier with planning.

Maybe blocking the road (where there are no gateways) & rounding 'em up & trialing 'em in court would have been a good deterrent.

Media always sensationalizes whatever info arrives at them. Better take it with a pinch of salt.

And they are labelled as Bikers? That is the most shameful thing for the biking fraternity. Most biker friends on my friend list commute in riding gear (set) as & when they can, ride responsibly & respect & give way to other road users.

Government and Administration need to sit together and work on how to curb this. Merely shooting won't help. Most hooligans are in young, impressionable age, maybe they can be taught to value their lives as well as others.
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Old 28th July 2013, 22:35   #43
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Sir, do we remember that less than two months ago a policeman lost his life while trying to stop such bikers in a "legitimate" way (and i wont term this latest incident as a revenge fight flagged by police). We all know how easy it is to vanish in thin air when we can maneuver anywhere on a bike.
Hey first of all please dont call me Sir man .

Now danger to life is a occupational hazard from Day 1 for anyone enrolling in the Police force and Army. So this cannot be used as a reason to show so much panic and start firing at the slightest hint of trouble. In a country which is debating abolishing death sentence for even the heinous of crimes, pulling stunts on a bike surely does not merit such action. Now I am not going to take sides here since we don't know the exact story but please don't think that the cops are so helpless. Because they really aren't. This is a regular menace on our roads. And with the kind of resources and informers police has, they surely could have had placed enough barricades etc to stop these guys. Even catching one of them could have led to more arrests. Afterall these are the guys we trust to keep us safe from murders/rapists/terrorists. So a bunch of unruly bikers are not that hard to tackle for them if they really decide to deal with it. In such instances I always remember a dialogue from a bollywood movie: " If the cops decide to take action, then no one can steal even a pair of shoes from outside a temple". Sounds slightly over the top but it does convey the message.
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Old 28th July 2013, 22:50   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
In such instances I always remember a dialogue from a bollywood movie: " If the cops decide to take action, then no one can steal even a pair of shoes from outside a temple". Sounds slightly over the top but it does convey the message.
So someone's watching singham on star gold tonight.

Anyways I fully support the police's action but yes the killing was a bit over the top. They should have questioned first.
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Old 28th July 2013, 23:04   #45
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

2 ugly sides of coin - Delhi Police & Stunt Bikers.

Whether I support death ? No - a young life lost even before he got chance to realize what nuisance he was creating.

Whether I justify Police Firing - What other option did they had???

Stunt Bikers influenced in their kid days by Road Rash and Dhoom, and trying to enact both at the same time after pelting stone and trying to flee the crime scene using their biking skills, What other option to stop them. The decision making process when some one moving ahead at may be 80-100 Kmph, its a reflex decision and not one that can be taken logically,

I have personally seen these Stunt Bikers being rogue having no respect for any one else on road. They never care about life of others. People are trying to sympathize death of one rogue youngster who was drunk and doing dangerous act in high speed in a road which could have killed some innocent. Common man its time the law enforcing agencies act hard on these hooligans across every city in India.
I have no sympathies for them since ages, and I believe (and looking at reactions, is quite visible as well) they have done nothing to earn public sympathy.
p.s. I have always used word stunt bikers and not bikers for these rogue elements in society.
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