Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th July 2013, 23:05   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,630
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I am not supporting the actions of Police, but what were the options with them ?

Having traveled to Delhi several times, I have observed that people lack any sort of driving sense. Be it a 4, 3 or 2 wheeler.
Next, comes in these wheelie bikers. They are supremely arrogant, with an ignorant attitude submerged in Bullying behavior. They view safety and laws with utter disdain, which is certainly not good for society. Generic notion is that more rough and arrogant the person, stronger he is. I really am not aware how this culture gets into them, but its omnipresent.

Another thing that makes me wonder is the copious amount of time they have. Once, I was being followed in the cab when I was on an official visit to client after a close shave with a bike.

Slowly, but steadily, this brash behavior is spreading over the entire nation. Bikers with no helmet ride at high speeds in city and that too on wrong side. Usually riding parallel and talking to each other ( may be discussing how brave they are ), not realizing that they have actually blocked the road. A single female 2-wheeler ride will mostly be followed for a few miles, and couples riding on 2-wheeler too are being troubled. Its a nightmare to be stuck in traffic jam with these bikers, specially if you are with family.

Police had to take some action as they were certainly attacked. The bikers were trying to escape, and if one tries to accelerate hard with a pillion on a bike, wheelie gets easier. I have experienced this multiple times and hence always avoid hard pick up when a pillion is riding. Wish Police acts much stronger on all these road users who are actually sort of "anti-social" individuals. On famous news channels its shown every year that on a particular day, a few thousand bikers would make life of other road users hell. These activities have to stop and awareness has to spread that doing wheelie on public road is not an act filled with valor.
aaggoswami is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 00:14   #47
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,907
Thanked: 1,121 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

In many countries you will be fired upon by policemen for not stopping when asked to. No wonder those countries have discipline of high order. Discipline is totally absent in our country from all spheres. Traffic mayhem , wrong-side overtaking, incessant honking etc are examples as are jumping queues, talking loudly over phone in publice places in uncouth language, total absence of small words like sorry, thank you etc. when situation warrants etc. etc. This country needs to be ruled by iron hand. Better a benevolent dictator than a wimpy democrat. So more power to police.

All those supporting those crooks on motorcycle, you guys shed tears for criminals and terrorists. Please also shed some tears for soldiers and security forces and poilcemen dieing in the line of duty.
pgsagar is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 00:32   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
sameerg001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dwarka, Delhi
Posts: 1,499
Thanked: 417 Times
Default

Sad to see a young life wasted like this. Now his parents will suffer for whole life, just because he was a pillion with his friend and were doing stunts.

Crazy country we live in, where people committing crimes like rape /murder etc are not shot dead, but those breaking traffic laws are.

The situation could have been controlled easily, I don't see any point in justifying this act of police.

God give strength to his parents, to bear this pain.
sameerg001 is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 00:51   #49
Senior - BHPian
 
GrammarNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,000
Thanked: 1,563 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I am not supporting the actions of Police, but what were the options with them ?
Tear gas, Lathi charge, barricades, water cannons. Expected a more planned approach. What if some terrorists were hiding amongst them, waiting to attack! Quite a possibility. They should've resisted & contained them and detained them all. Unfortunately in our POOR country, police hasn't been provided with the necessary equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
...They are supremely arrogant, with an ignorant attitude submerged in Bullying behavior. They view safety and laws with utter disdain, which is certainly not good for society. Generic notion is that more rough and arrogant the person, stronger he is. I really am not aware how this culture gets into them, but its omnipresent.
This is true, noticed this since schooldays. Most of them are just so very contemptuous about almost everything! But one Delhi-ite, being a friend said its an option they're forced to choose for the kind of environment there.

IMO Delhi-ites are like that because the northern region has faced constant aggression from foreign invasions over the centuries, and that somehow that aggressiveness stuck on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Slowly, but steadily, this brash behavior is spreading ... A single female 2-wheeler ride will mostly be followed for a few miles, and couples riding on 2-wheeler too are being troubled. Its a nightmare to be stuck in traffic jam with these bikers, specially if you are with family.
To an extent this is there in Bangalore too if its too late in the night (post 11:30pm). Glad the police here aren't going crazy about slightly tinted glasses.
GrammarNazi is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 01:27   #50
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Delhi/Cuttack
Posts: 372
Thanked: 176 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

This is just not acceptable from any police force. Unless there is a clear and imminent danger to a person's life, the police has no business firing live ammunition on the streets. And to all those posters here on the forum who are taking the moral highline - please have a rethink - the question is very similar to a situation where you have run a red-light and the police fires on you because you refused to stop.

Guns are not for idiots, and this is idiocy. Hope they are punished - this is clearly against any system of proportionate action which is the very basis of police work - am dead sure that the police manual does not at any point teaches this.

Sheesh! Firing live ammo (and killing a person )for an motor Vehicle act offence - the tragedy and the stupidity and the sheer absence of brains or training.

Ps: Though it is of no real help, I hope they sue the shit out of the Police department - In a western country, something like this can result in the police department paying millions in compensation.

I was at Le meridian last night for a reception. - which is very close to the incident. I left an hour before the incident happened. There were a couple of nakabandis at India Gate. What if I had knocked a police barricade - if the same cop was there, should he have fired at me. Seriously what is wrong in this country. And as I read back more of this thread - people are using terms like the police reaction was a 'bit over the top', 'what would police do' - a bit ? really? Someone just lost his life because of some idiocy. What would the police do? It should do nothing if it is incapable of not doing this.

Last edited by manolin : 29th July 2013 at 01:39.
manolin is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 02:10   #51
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 408
Thanked: 109 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Last year when we(Me, wife and son) went to visit Hampi, we faced a same situation in Bellary. There were around 100 bikers, they had gathered in the city centre in mid day and doing all stupid stunts. Literally they blocked the main junctions for more than an hour, even when the police came, they couldn't do anything.

The bikers were teasing and scaring everyone. It was very bad and made me me to think, is it the country where my son has to grow, in any other developed country, the police would have used force to control. But not that day.

I remember telling my wife, these bikers should be removed from society(not necessarily shoot or kill them) so that they can never trouble innocent citizens. They amount teasing they did for young couples, girls on bike, if it is in US, if not police, citizens would have opened their guns shut down these guys.

I support police here, if the version what they are saying is true. These idiots could have killed innocent lives and it is the responsibility of police to avoid that, even if it means to shut down(though not a big supporter of killing by any means).

Last edited by manjubp : 29th July 2013 at 02:13.
manjubp is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 02:29   #52
BHPian
 
sen2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 536
Thanked: 609 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Its nice to see some sensible opinions pouring in.

We start with killing a 19 year old boy, who clearly doesn't realize what he was doing. And then we start advocating dictatorship to the country which has earned democracy at the cost of many a great leader's life.

No doubt that we are running into moral bankruptcy - its just that those bikers aren't leading that race.

Police needs preparation and plan to control a mob, especially one which is formed by young boys. And even more so, when this is a known problem existing for many years. A proper plan and sustained action could have controlled this menace in a lawful and lasting manner.

But, that's not what we want. We want blood.

Last edited by sen2009 : 29th July 2013 at 02:30.
sen2009 is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 06:18   #53
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,402
Thanked: 3,430 Times
Default

+1. When we have teams and plans like the disaster management team for stuff like earthquakes than couldn't the police have sketched out a plan of action to nab these idiots? Its not like this was the first time they did these stunts or the last time. They even repeat such acts always in and around the India gate area.

Having said that we need to clearly understand one major point that has kind of got lost in the discussion. The cops did not shoot to kill in this case. They used it to probably help disperse these rowdies. You can call it bad judgement but not bad intent. It makes a very big difference between the two. Hence people who are scared of getting shot next time they jump a signal can take a sigh of relief.
drmohitg is online now  
Old 29th July 2013, 07:48   #54
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,008
Thanked: 21,593 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

How things work in Mumbai:
Police force gets complaint / tip-off of a rowdy gang racing / performing / harassing other road users. Next night, a trap is laid and they are nabbed. Some are caught, some get away. Bikes and licences are confiscated. A night or two later, the rider is out on bail or just freed. No problem. He will start riding once again on some other bike and harass other road users again.
The races: Say South Mumbai to Bandra (roughly 20kms) at breakneck speeds between 2 riders. Their gang follows. Winner keeps the loser's bike - which generally goes to a rider whose bike has been confiscated in a raid.
While on the road, if a rider bangs into another vehicle, his gang will waste no time in beating the driver up. Not too long ago, a girl was harassed badly by a rider's gang when he went into the back for her car at Bandra. About 12 years ago, one night while returning from a party, I was the target myself. My fault? I had a few female friends including a foreigner in the car. These frenzied idiots were just weaving around, shouting and making lewd gestures. One fool even hit the car with a sharp object and chipped the paint. I was fuming but had to keep calm. What else could I do? Next morning I lodged a complaint with the police. What happened? NOTHING.
So for me, these guys are better off dead than alive simply coz they never learn.
Aditya is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 08:06   #55
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 11,729
Thanked: 9,040 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Let me tell you what happened to a friend of mine last week.

He was driving cautiously minding his own business on a clear service road when he slowed down for a junction. He gently braked and he hears a thud and a person flying forward and bouncing of the A pillar.

He gets out and finds his rear bumper caved in, rear door dented, tail light smashed. The biker was doing a high speed wheelie and the engine smashed into car and there was an imprint of the tyre on the roof.

All the passers by were supported, called an ambulance for the bikers, waited till the police came and gave witness statements. The police were most supportive and called these bikers a menace. They were hoping that these guys would not come out of hospital.

Anyway, a whole day was wasted getting the formalities sorted out. An FIR was required since a person was injured. The police guided us through the process. They are frustrated with these folks since the punishment is lax.

The biker family came to file a case much later claiming my friend braked too hard but the police told them to get lost.
ajmat is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 08:19   #56
BHPian
 
dreadknight5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 68
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Police fire at bikers performing stunts in Delhi, one dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Agree - This is lunacy! Those policemen must justify their actions or be tried for cold blooded murder.
The cops don't need to justify their actions. They were performing their duty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I am sorry - life is gray and its not so simple that you can justify the equivalent of murder. It is very easy to type words sitting cocooned at your home - think of the parents who lost their child.
Well it is the job of every parent to make sure that their kid is bought up with proper moral values, with common sense and it is also the job of every parent to keep a close tab on the play-toys they give to their children. For example: if you give your kid a high powered bike, he for a fact will be prone to do something immature. So it is the responsibility of every parent to hand stuff to children only when they feel comfortable with their kid's maturity levels.

For example : you will not hand a 5 year old kid a mobile, but you will be comfortable handing the mobile to say a 9 year old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Yeah - that was patently stupid but again I believe they could've shot not to kill but to warn. Unnecessary loss of life even there.

In general in life the principle is to assume innocent until proven guilty. Popping a bunch of wheelies does NOT give any policeman license to kill. Such policemen should only be tried for cold blooded murder of innocents. I cannot imagine how shooting at the tyres led to a pillion dying (shooting wide by almost 3-4 ft!) - clearly our police is far from the trained efficient force they pretend to be. They are clearly not too fit to carry their weapons!
Well yeah, the cops probably need to be trained better with guns. To be honest, if you observe the guns the cops carry in general you will find them to be antiquated models. So if they had assault rifles with scope magnification or guns with rubber bullets, the result could have been different.

I have zero sympathy towards the Bikers. They had it coming. Even a 10 year old knows what is right and what is wrong. You cannot cite that the bikers were young and brash as an excuse. Such examples is a necessity for the greater good.

Lack of strict rule implementation is the prime reason behind us indians not respecting laws of the land. IF the cops didn't do anything and say the bikers in their drunken frenzy ran over a pedestrian, a whole bunch of people would have crucified them. It is really a no win scenario.
dreadknight5 is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 08:23   #57
BHPian
 
pratyush6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RNC - BLR
Posts: 471
Thanked: 498 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I have seen a few of these idiots in Bangalore as well. I simply do not have any sympathy for these morons. They endanger their life and lives of others.

In this case they even attacked the Police. IMHO Delhi Police is not a body of saints themselves but I wonder what options did they have. Yes, it would have been better if they had Rubber Bullets or something so that the chap atleast did not lose his life.

Is there any deterrent to these guys - No. There needs to be a very harsh stand taken by the society and by the police. I sincerely hope the Media does not paint this squarely on the Police.

In our country its the law abiding citized who is wary about the Police rather than the other way around. Biker menace needs to stop - NOW.
pratyush6 is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 08:37   #58
BHPian
 
dreadknight5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 68
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
In many countries you will be fired upon by policemen for not stopping when asked to. No wonder those countries have discipline of high order. Discipline is totally absent in our country from all spheres. Traffic mayhem , wrong-side overtaking, incessant honking etc are examples as are jumping queues, talking loudly over phone in publice places in uncouth language, total absence of small words like sorry, thank you etc. when situation warrants etc. etc. This country needs to be ruled by iron hand. Better a benevolent dictator than a wimpy democrat. So more power to police.

All those supporting those crooks on motorcycle, you guys shed tears for criminals and terrorists. Please also shed some tears for soldiers and security forces and poilcemen dieing in the line of duty.

I agree with you. What everyone sees in the cops is a source of corruption. Corruption also comes when there is not enough power in the hands of the law. The cops know that even murderers get away scott free thanks to the lawlessness in the land. They also know that if they try to be honest and upright they get punished by the porkiticians. So they tend to take the path of least resistance which is corruption.

People have to realize that the cops are not superbeings from another planet. They have ends to their patience levels. Imagine, you having to do potentially dangerous work 10 hours a day for measly salary, get crucified by public and porkiticians and head in the middle of the night and face drunken youngsters who insult you further by pelting stones on you.

How much can one take ? The Bikers had no business creating a ruscus in middle of the night. One of them paid the price. Hope rest of them grow some grey cells inside and realize that life is too precious to squander in such meaningless escapades.

What I feel the state governments should do is to create and maintain racetracks in every major city. People can use those tracks to race to their content while not endangering anyone.
dreadknight5 is offline  
Old 29th July 2013, 08:52   #59
Mik
BHPian
 
Mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GGN>BLR
Posts: 359
Thanked: 296 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Its easy to take the moral high ground and lament on a life lost.
Duh! actions have consequences. Equating a drunk, "miscreant" gang on bikes stoning police vehicles, teasing girls and hounding innocent by standers while creating a ruckus on the road is not the same as "jumping a red light". It is over-simplification of the problem.
You need to be stuck in one of these situations to understand the mind-set of these miscreants. I was terrorized as my wife was with me when i was stuck in the midst of this kind of gang. Hell, if i had a gun on me I would have used it to good effect. Preferably real over rubber!
India Gate and lutyens delhi as a whole has too many exits and it would take the whole of Delhi police to effectively barricade it, let alone at two at night!
The loss of life ,while unfortunate, probably saves lives. What is needed right now is a staunch endorsement of the police force so that they don't get demoralized. Only strict action will stop this menace. Too many parents in Delhi don't think twice before letting out their children with hefty pocket money and the latest bikes(On the other popular forum on motorcycling I have seen posts by minors who are being gifted 250cc and above bikes by their parents) No, I am not against bikes. I love it more than driving my car but I am mindful about the dangers and my responsibility.
Hoping for a safer Delhi with at-least one less nuisance on the road.
Mik is online now  
Old 29th July 2013, 09:04   #60
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,582
Thanked: 3,244 Times
Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

When the police wants, they can do things properly, nab the bad boys and no one gets hurt: http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...e-delhi-police

As for those who claim that just because the bike was wheelieing (do we have that on video or is it just speculation?), so the police's missed shot is pardonable, please do the math:
Name:  pillionwheelie.jpg
Views: 1287
Size:  48.4 KB
(via biketoq.com)

Assuming a 17" radius wheel (Pulsar) - they are off by atleast 3+ feet, and ideally around 4-5 feet to kill the pillion. Supporting trigger happy police that miss so widely (or were spraying bullets if you look at it coldly) makes no sense whatsoever. When was the last time the police shot at car guys trying to avoid a speed trap and get away (even that's illegal, right?).

As for everyone moralizing so much on the rowdy bikers - I presume all of you want death for all sorts of minor crimes. Its an invisible line from there to a police state that abuses its powers and kills individual freedoms.
phamilyman is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Road rage : Had an altercation with political goons who threatened me StrangeWizard Street Experiences 57 11th May 2016 15:34
Owner asks for Mercedes after parked Nano catches fire. EDIT : One more on page 5! lambuhere1 Street Experiences 87 28th February 2013 18:08
Morris Street : A Customised Street Rod, made in Delhi GTO The Indian Car Scene 26 22nd July 2012 18:46
Moto Unit-The Stunt Factory (New Stunt Team from Delhi) BANDHAV Motorbikes 12 29th March 2010 13:16
Palio catches fire after collision with truck, 3 dead tsk1979 The Indian Car Scene 41 15th February 2006 20:00


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:59.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks