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Old 29th July 2013, 09:14   #61
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Originally Posted by manolin View Post
This is just not acceptable from any police force. Unless there is a clear and imminent danger to a person's life, the police has no business firing live ammunition on the streets. And to all those posters here on the forum who are taking the moral highline - please have a rethink - the question is very similar to a situation where you have run a red-light and the police fires on you because you refused to stop.
Please maintain a sense of perspective. The bikes were NOT shot at for a traffic violation. By the way, if I were stopped for running a red light and instead of stopping, took off driving dangerously, endangering others on the street, then tossed objects out of the window with an intent to harm the officers pursuing me, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally. All what is different here?

The problem in taking a neutral or nuanced stand is that you get accused of all kinds of nonsense. Suddenly I am a "supporter of killings".
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Old 29th July 2013, 09:22   #62
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I will not say anything other than this, a line i read in some novel:

For the greater good, some things have to be sacrificed.
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Old 29th July 2013, 09:26   #63
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

For all the people condoning police action, remember this. If those unruly miscreants get away every single time for their illegal activities, what is there to stop them from becoming a bigger thug or rowdy in the future. The loss of one life here should be made as an example to prevent further loss of innocent lives.
This kind of activities should be nipped in the bud so as to make them better citizens.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:03   #64
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I feel sorry for the lad who lost his life. But people need to understand that sometimes going over the line is done at your own risk. Rest in peace. Why would any sane person pelt stones on cops is something i am unable to understand though. However another part of me says that the police could have called for reinforcements and arrested everyone. The sad part is that the pillion got hit though, of all things.

P.S: The shooting incident in bangalore, pfft. They did know that the guy was a motorcycle racer seeking thrill. Why in the world would they shoot at a young lad and that too in the abdomen? I really feel the police should be taught to handle stuff professionally and in this instance, i feel the security lads have been pretty trigger happy. I wish these guys had something called tazers for handling these domestic problems or are our policemen so unfit physically that they can't get in range to use it?

Last edited by Arch-Angel : 29th July 2013 at 10:10.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:34   #65
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

I have faced this innumerable times at india gate, bangla sahib & nizamuddin.
Having been caught in this melee so many times, trust me, it gets very scary, very fast. This was my place of residence, so I had no choice. A couple of times I have been chased by a few bikers but they stopped after they used to see which area i was heading into.
I absolutely HATE these guys with all my heart.
But the worst I always wished for was for them to get some road rash, or get thrown into a cell, and their bikes confiscated and sold for scrap.
I have seen the kind of knee-jerk reaction that the cops had. They received complaints that repeated 100-200 bikers converge on these areas, and specific dates too. They turned up with a few barricades, and a few PCRs. And then they gave up after a bit, letting them run amok.

You are the police, and you KNEW how many of the guys were going to be there, and you know how many people it would require to handle them.
WHY the hell did they not turn up with enough manpower?

I dont condone the cops letting off a round directly at the guy. That was not the way to go about it. If you have seen the quality and quantity of manpower the DP brings trying to stop this madness, you will understand the inadequacy.

But I seriously hope this serves as an adequate deterrent to this set of bikers. By the law of averages, there will be trouble makers amongst you. Most of you may think I'll just swoop by in that gap, between the two cars. You may or may not be that adept with your bike. When you hit me and die, or hurt yourself, your buddies will converge and make my life miserable. You may not care about spending time with your folks and family, but I do.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:38   #66
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by Arch-Angel View Post

P.S: The shooting incident in bangalore, pfft. They did know that the guy was a motorcycle racer seeking thrill. Why in the world would they shoot at a young lad and that too in the abdomen? I really feel the police should be taught to handle stuff professionally and in this instance, i feel the security lads have been pretty trigger happy. I wish these guys had something called tazers for handling these domestic problems or are our policemen so unfit physically that they can't get in range to use it?
Correction, the cops chased the biker who jumped into a military compound. the military found him speaking in urdu to his friends to rescue him, they asked him to surrender, but he did not (must have thought they were unarmed cops), then he was shot down.

The military did not know he was a biker fleeing the police, they thought he was an intruder, add to that he was speaking urdu in a hushed manner, you can draw conclusions on what they had to assume
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:49   #67
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Correction, the cops chased the biker who jumped into a military compound. the military found him speaking in urdu to his friends to rescue him, they asked him to surrender, but he did not (must have thought they were unarmed cops), then he was shot down.

The military did not know he was a biker fleeing the police, they thought he was an intruder, add to that he was speaking urdu in a hushed manner, you can draw conclusions on what they had to assume
Hmm. If that's the case, i would say the police had a benefit of doubt or rather, the military. However, why would a military compound be bang in the middle of the city? I am not saying it is wrong but a guy fleeing doesn't decide where he is headed. But, the guy speaking in urdu(hushed as you put it) would definitely have been suspect enough and the idiot didn't surrender. He paid for his stupidity then. Thanks for the details Ajit sir.

I did read about the asking for help in the post but, this detail about hushed urdu...hmmm.

Last edited by Arch-Angel : 29th July 2013 at 10:52.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:51   #68
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Sharply divided opinions on whether the shooting was justified or not.

It was a sad day because a motorcycle stunt rider/pillion was shot and killed while doing so many things that are completely illegal.

It is a sad commentary on the state of affairs of the law enforcing agency of the capital of the country, who are under-equipped, understaffed and undertrained (and IMO underqualified for the job). Yet these men in uniform try their hardest to follow orders, and keep important parts of the city safe. If this was anywhere else but the VVIP area, the action and results would have been different (read: the bikers would have been left alone to do their own thing).

It will be another sad day if, pressured by public opinion formed due to biased reporting by the media, certain men in uniform are suspended / penalized / sacked / jailed. The baying for blood has already begun (http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...1-1099752.aspx).

Anyone who has been at the receiving end of these bikers' ire (for something as simple as honking at a biker doing a stoppie in front of one's car at 50 km/h), will know whom to support - the bikers, or the cops.

The day penal / disciplinary action is taken against the errant cop(s) will be the night (and a few nights thereafter) that I'll definitely stay away from central Delhi.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 29th July 2013 at 10:56.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:52   #69
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Please maintain a sense of perspective. The bikes were NOT shot at for a traffic violation. By the way, if I were stopped for running a red light and instead of stopping, took off driving dangerously, endangering others on the street, then tossed objects out of the window with an intent to harm the officers pursuing me, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally. All what is different here?

The problem in taking a neutral or nuanced stand is that you get accused of all kinds of nonsense. Suddenly I am a "supporter of killings".
What were the bikers shot at for - a traffic violation? or for throwing stones at police - was he throwing stones while riding? for dangerous riding? was he close to hitting someone in a manner in which the other person could have died?

If anyone was taking a neutral view or nuanced view then they should stop generalising the incident as 'bikers were ganging', 'bikers were driving rashly' - was that particular biker putting any person's life in immediate danger at that moment. If meaning of immediate danger is not clear let me put in this manner - unless the situation was such that grevious hurt would have occurred to someone (with no other possible outcome), unless the police had fired, only in that case can police fire.

And yes, even if i throw objects at police with the intent of harming them, they are not supposed to fire, unless they have sanctioned orders in very specified circumstances. Heck forget police - if I were to throw a stone at someone, no, that person is not allowed to fire at me in return.

want more of nuanced view? Please pick up a police manual - every state has one which will lay down the rules of engagement by police - and see how much is required for firing live ammunition. You will find details on how, why, where police can and cannot fire - at a person or at a vehicle (because bullets can kill, even when not intended). In a different context see, http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ig...waist/1066631/

Anyways it is clear that our public (also evident here) is very blood thirsty - what are a few young lives here and there, thats all for the general good. They are sacrifices even if they were not aware of that fact. Educating them, reforming them is too slow a process and we can not wait for that. Stopping them without killing them is too costly a process. They can harm my car, dent my bumper, maybe break my arm - so let the police shoot them all, and shoot them before they do anything to me even if I am sitting 2000km away behind a computer.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:53   #70
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Tear gas, Lathi charge, barricades, water cannons. Expected a more planned approach. Unfortunately in our POOR country, police hasn't been provided with the necessary equipment.


This is true, noticed this since schooldays. Most of them are just so very contemptuous about almost everything! But one Delhi-ite, being a friend said its an option they're forced to choose for the kind of environment there.

IMO Delhi-ites are like that because the northern region has faced constant aggression from foreign invasions over the centuries, and that somehow that aggressiveness stuck on.
There we go stereotyping again. What if I told you that most of these boys don't speak Hindi as their language of choice? I am sure others who have been caught in a melly around Central Delhi would testify the same.

Yes a lot of people in Delhi roam around as kings but there's no adapt and become bad or suffer at their hands. As someone who's spent 4 years in the south I have a better understanding of Delhi now after I got back in 2009.

Delhi has more mix of people from everywhere. Considering there is no local party unlike in Mumbai which rules the roost and calls the shots, we've got a mix of a lot of north Indians from everywhere among folks from all areas of India. Remember this was the same city and the same people who propelled the Anna movement & the December 16th gangrape protests, I being part of the latter.

My point is not everybody is trigger or fist happy. There are countless reasonable people. I would invite you to Delhi team bhp meets to find out for yourself.

These are young boys who are choosing to break rules for the rush. It isn't forced upon them. Noone pointed a gun to their head to do wheelies or to trouble the elderly, the women, the men, the kids and so on and so forth. Senior community leaders from all communities have been requested by the Delhi Police to ask these youngsters to stop.

However scenes like the following haven't been curbed yet. Delhi Police could have done better but please understand the police force in Delhi is too busy attending to the VIP's and secondly they don't have the equipment to deal with this. The only time they have access to these weapons and detterents is when the protest is against the ruling govt. Case in point being closing down India gate and I getting lathi charged in the process of the women's right protests post Dec 16th.


Last edited by AbhishekB86 : 29th July 2013 at 11:07. Reason: typo
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:55   #71
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

Support the Delhi police in what they did. 100%. These guys are a pain in the butt. Even here in Bangalore they drag race and do dangerous stunts on cubbon road, m.g. road and even airport road.

Many times had to call the cops as they are doing this from 11pm till 4am in the morning especially friday, saturday and sunday.

THis will teach them a lesson! It was however unfortunate that a young life was lost!

Can't some rich industrialist buy some huge chunk of land and make an official drag strips like the one is USA. Open it ti public with a steep fee. Have offical teams for wining a drag team championship every year! Have some of the big guys sponser the event.

Have this better than the one is US. Have a nice decent hotel, Ambulance, pit crew areas etc. Make it official and then no of these bloody idiots will ever drag on the main roads.
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:56   #72
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Originally Posted by Recompose View Post
I remember another incident in Bangalore, where the biker lost his life after he entered the premises of a Brigadier in a gated Army colony to escape the police trailing him. Evidently, he didn't want to accept the consequences of his actions and had to pay dearly for it.
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However, why would a military compound be bang in the middle of the city?
What?

Quote:
I am not saying it is wrong but a guy fleeing doesn't decide where he is headed.
What would you do if some random bloke trespassed into your premises at 2 in the night?
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Old 29th July 2013, 11:01   #73
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. However, why would a military compound be bang in the middle of the city? .
The military compounds are what made Bangalore what it is today. The city grew around these and we need to be thankful for the military for preserving our green cover
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Old 29th July 2013, 11:14   #74
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

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Can't some rich industrialist buy some huge chunk of land and make an official drag strips like the one is USA. Open it ti public with a steep fee. Have offical teams for wining a drag team championship every year! Have some of the big guys sponser the event.

Have this better than the one is US. Have a nice decent hotel, Ambulance, pit crew areas etc. Make it official and then no of these bloody idiots will ever drag on the main roads.
If only that was the problem. You can have racing tracks to help the need to speed but what if that isn't what they're seeking. A lot of them are in scooter or very underpowered bikes.

The reason why they're different from biking enthusiasts is because it's not about thrills of the machine or riding but about defying law & order. It's the mob mentality to break law and order, to create chaos, trouble road users. Even if you build 5 race tracks it wouldn't be fun as long as they're not destroying something. Mob mentality is a different ball game altogether.
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Old 29th July 2013, 11:26   #75
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Default Re: Police fire after altercation with street stunt bikers in Delhi, one dead

There is no justification for using lethal force on youth just because they are acting out. Even in Kashmir at the height of public stone throwing by huge mobs, most of them paid goons, the police and CRPF use lathis and shields and body armor and rubber bullets. Even in an environment that is anti-India.

My stand on this is very clear. Forget sham suspensions and court of enquiries. If there is divine justice up there, may this police guy lose one of his own in a similar manner one day.

Last edited by ebonho : 29th July 2013 at 11:28.
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