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Old 29th October 2009, 15:18   #2146
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Default Hypertrophy

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Myofibrillar Hypertrophy = very little increase in visible muscular mass actually.
Anyone targeting building muscles actually is more into sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.
If you have got muscular gains by 5 rep scheme, you count yourself blessed genetically.
However, on an average 5 reps is just too less of a stimulation for the muscle to grow.

Plus the weight which you use for 5 reps is so high that your body starts improving the neuron firing (for generating force), which is not really ideal for putting on muscular mass. Thats why the term CNS fatigue comes into picture (which takes pretty long to recover).

In my experience, if the exercise is not inducing pump naturally, the weight is too high, and the reps are too low.
Hi Alpha,

Have you seen the strongmen of yester years, Body builders of the 60s and 70s and 80s and powerlifters, are they bulky or skinny?

What about Frank Zane, Mike Mentzer, Tom Platz, Samir Bannout, they surely worked iron the old way.

What kind of hypertrophy do you think is predominant in them.

I agree with CNS, but I would also like to add, pumping is basically filling your muscles with fluid, and increasing blood circulation.

The ideal rep range for developing Myofibrillar Hypertrophy is 5-8 reps.

1-4 reps vs 5-8 Reps
30-60% vs 90% of muscle fibres recruited for doing the work.

Beyond 8 Reps the chances of lactic acid build up is rapid, thereby, causing muscular fatigue.

Also CNS training is very important for any iron worker.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Go easy with the genetically blessed, it was a term coined to promote the sales of supplements to those who were not supposedly "genetically blessed".
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Old 29th October 2009, 15:42   #2147
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Default Work & Force

Work = Load X Reps
Force = Work/ Time

Lets say 1 Rep takes 3 seconds

then

For 1 Tonne Work

if weight is 10kgs X100Reps = 1000kgs and 1000/ (3 secs X 100)
is 20X50 = 1000kgs and 1000/ (3 secs X 50)
is 30X35 = 1050kgs and 1050/ (3 secs X 35)
is 35X30 = 1050kgs and 1050/ (3 secs X 35)
is 50X20 = 1000kgs and 1000/ (3 secs X 20)
is 100X10 = 1000kgs and 1000/ (3 secs X 10)

For the same work (1000kgs) the force varies depending on the number of reps, the reps add fatigues.

You can try 5reps X10 sets (Major Lift) + 5 sets of Repetition workout with body weight exercises.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th October 2009, 13:05   #2148
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Default Anda

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Originally Posted by NK@Hyd View Post
Great! I am a vegetarian and eat eggs. Now don't get me started on "But dude, eggs are non-veg!"
If ANDA, then why not ANDE Ki MAA?
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Old 30th October 2009, 13:58   #2149
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
If ANDA, then why not ANDE Ki MAA?
Classic

@Somspaple- Protein taken within 30-40 mins after workout is more effective. Carry the shaker with you,mix with water and drink. Takes at the most 2-3 mins. I do it in my office regularly.
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Old 30th October 2009, 14:17   #2150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Alpha,

Have you seen the strongmen of yester years, Body builders of the 60s and 70s and 80s and powerlifters, are they bulky or skinny?

What about Frank Zane, Mike Mentzer, Tom Platz, Samir Bannout, they surely worked iron the old way.

What kind of hypertrophy do you think is predominant in them.

I agree with CNS, but I would also like to add, pumping is basically filling your muscles with fluid, and increasing blood circulation.

The ideal rep range for developing Myofibrillar Hypertrophy is 5-8 reps.

1-4 reps vs 5-8 Reps
30-60% vs 90% of muscle fibres recruited for doing the work.

Beyond 8 Reps the chances of lactic acid build up is rapid, thereby, causing muscular fatigue.

Also CNS training is very important for any iron worker.

Regards,

Arka

PS - Go easy with the genetically blessed, it was a term coined to promote the sales of supplements to those who were not supposedly "genetically blessed".
1. Bodybuilders never have been skinny. Neither have strongmen. Whether you take 60s or 90s.
2. The old way is actually doing higher reps (12 to 15 which is certainly more than 5 reps), higher volume (6 sets at least, instead of 3 which is modern approach)
3. Agreed about 5-8 reps for myofibr hypertrophy. However, that doesn't lead to perceptible increase in muscular size. Bodybuilding is more concerened about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - which is markedly more perceptible (measured by tape). However, sarco increase doesn't lead to very huge strength gains - the gains are more on the endurance and ability to perform more work in shorter time.
4. Mike Mentzer is often used as a defense for heavy duty workout - where you do one set of extremely heavy weight per body part and rest for one week atleast. However, most ppl don't know that he propagated heavy duty only after coming into Olympia scene. Till then he was doing the old school high volume workout.
5. CNS training is only to increase strength. Sure, if you are looking at powerlifting championship, or to impress others at gym, you would want that - however, the shortcomings of CNS overloading is that it takes atleast a week for it to receover. Whereas your muscles recover by 72 hours. Giving them a rest of 7-3 = 4 days is not going to help muscles grow.
6. With regards to pump - as I said - it was my experience. Lifting extremely heavy and taking one week break is something that I tried and got nothing out of it.
7. Genetically blessed means different ppl have different built up.
You can be big boned, and your results will be totally different from someone who is thin boned (more muscles, more strength for less effort).
You can have a fast metabolism, and that allows you to increase your diet. Whereas a person with slow metabolism, will have to take care of his diet - and as a result his muscualr progression is slower.
Your muscle/tendon insertions into bones, allow you to take heavier/lighter weight than others, and when developed, will look also different from other ppl.

The higher rep and volume training principle is from olden days only - golden age they call. That when Vince Gironda, Harold Poole, Larry Scott, Sergio Olivia, Arnold, Serge Nubret etc were known names.

Its recently that many powerlifters have started coming into bodybuilding, brining in their training philosophy. But then even then if you see Ronnie Coleman who used to do powerlifting - changed his workout to 12-15 reps and higher sets, because by doing 5-8 reps and two-three sets you are only gonna increase strength - but visually it doesn't bring out fast results.
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Old 30th October 2009, 14:22   #2151
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PS: Tom Platz has had fabulous quads - right?

You know his training priciple for legs?

Sets after sets after set - using minimal rest.
And using suboptimal weight that doesnt cause failure at each set.
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Old 30th October 2009, 16:39   #2152
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I adore these Pros because of their sheer hard work and work ethics.
At the same time, they suck big time because they keep rest of the world in cold. One cannot match these guys in appearance as they consume $hitload of anabolics and other chemicals. May be couple of Bibliographies could shed some light on this one. 99% of the guys training in gym want to look like them but little do they know about the hard truth and their bodies are chemically modified.
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Old 30th October 2009, 16:56   #2153
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Default Rest and Recuperation

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
1. Bodybuilders never have been skinny. Neither have strongmen. Whether you take 60s or 90s.
2. The old way is actually doing higher reps (12 to 15 which is certainly more than 5 reps), higher volume (6 sets at least, instead of 3 which is modern approach)
3. Agreed about 5-8 reps for myofibr hypertrophy. However, that doesn't lead to perceptible increase in muscular size. Bodybuilding is more concerened about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - which is markedly more perceptible (measured by tape). However, sarco increase doesn't lead to very huge strength gains - the gains are more on the endurance and ability to perform more work in shorter time.
4. Mike Mentzer is often used as a defense for heavy duty workout - where you do one set of extremely heavy weight per body part and rest for one week atleast. However, most ppl don't know that he propagated heavy duty only after coming into Olympia scene. Till then he was doing the old school high volume workout.
5. CNS training is only to increase strength. Sure, if you are looking at powerlifting championship, or to impress others at gym, you would want that - however, the shortcomings of CNS overloading is that it takes atleast a week for it to receover. Whereas your muscles recover by 72 hours. Giving them a rest of 7-3 = 4 days is not going to help muscles grow.
6. With regards to pump - as I said - it was my experience. Lifting extremely heavy and taking one week break is something that I tried and got nothing out of it.
7. Genetically blessed means different ppl have different built up.
You can be big boned, and your results will be totally different from someone who is thin boned (more muscles, more strength for less effort).
You can have a fast metabolism, and that allows you to increase your diet. Whereas a person with slow metabolism, will have to take care of his diet - and as a result his muscualr progression is slower.
Your muscle/tendon insertions into bones, allow you to take heavier/lighter weight than others, and when developed, will look also different from other ppl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
PS: Tom Platz has had fabulous quads - right?

You know his training priciple for legs?

Sets after sets after set - using minimal rest.
And using suboptimal weight that doesnt cause failure at each set.
Hi Alpha1,

No where have I suggested to workout to failure with free weights.

Failure can be CNS or Muscular (Lack of Oxygen/lactic acid build up), The idea is to go near both and recover with in a few minutes (1-5 mins between sets)

The catch to building muscle is Myofibrillar Hypertrophy.

Exercise is a shock to your system, as a result your system prepare (grows/repairs/cramps up) to the shock.

Give it the right amount of shock, vary the shock.

the One Body part Once a week does not work fast enough and is very specialized.

The Bulgarian Power lifters lift 28 times a Week.

Russians train their Power Lifters 5 times a Weeks.

The Key is Repetitive work out 2-3 times a Weeks.

a few examples

Day#1 Pushing Exercises
Squats
Bench Press
Standing Military Press
Forearms

Day#2 Pull Exercises
Deadlifts
Pull-ups/Chinups
T-Bar Rowing
Neck

Or

Day#1 Chest & Lats (Back & Neck)
Day#2 Shoulders & Legs
Day#3 Arms (Biceps/Triceps/Forearms)

Or

Day#1 Legs & Chest
Day#2 Shoulder & Lats (Neck)
Day#3 Arms (Biceps/Triceps/Forearms)

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th October 2009, 17:38   #2154
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@Arka - I have heard that most people dont do biceps, triceps and forearms in one day, why is that and why do you suggest they be done n the same day?
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Old 30th October 2009, 17:42   #2155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Alpha1,

No where have I suggested to workout to failure with free weights.

Failure can be CNS or Muscular (Lack of Oxygen/lactic acid build up), The idea is to go near both and recover with in a few minutes (1-5 mins between sets)

The catch to building muscle is Myofibrillar Hypertrophy.

Exercise is a shock to your system, as a result your system prepare (grows/repairs/cramps up) to the shock.

Give it the right amount of shock, vary the shock.

the One Body part Once a week does not work fast enough and is very specialized.

The Bulgarian Power lifters lift 28 times a Week.

Russians train their Power Lifters 5 times a Weeks.

The Key is Repetitive work out 2-3 times a Weeks.

a few examples

Day#1 Pushing Exercises
Squats
Bench Press
Standing Military Press
Forearms

Day#2 Pull Exercises
Deadlifts
Pull-ups/Chinups
T-Bar Rowing
Neck

Or

Day#1 Chest & Lats (Back & Neck)
Day#2 Shoulders & Legs
Day#3 Arms (Biceps/Triceps/Forearms)

Or

Day#1 Legs & Chest
Day#2 Shoulder & Lats (Neck)
Day#3 Arms (Biceps/Triceps/Forearms)

Regards,

Arka
If thats the premise of your argument, then its not entirely correct.

Bodybuilding.com - Size Means Strength? - Jamie Hale
http://www.trainwiser.com/f109/sarco...ep-range-5284/
Muscle hypertrophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dude, what you are saying is not wrong - but its mainly powerlifting oriented with some emphasis on bodybuilding. Doesn't give the same results.
However, you will get great results doing powerlifting routines, IFF you spice things up by taking gear.
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Old 30th October 2009, 17:45   #2156
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Originally Posted by spawnofsatan View Post
@Arka - I have heard that most people dont do biceps, triceps and forearms in one day, why is that and why do you suggest they be done n the same day?
I do them in a single day.
Has anyone actually forbidden you to do on same day?
As long as you are giving sufficient rest, it doesn't matter.

Last edited by alpha1 : 30th October 2009 at 17:47.
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Old 30th October 2009, 19:23   #2157
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My wrist joint have severe pain while doing barbel curls . I can't do even a single rep .I am doing 5 min warmup and streching before doing any exercise. what should i do to cure this pain foreever. Can anyone help ?
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Old 30th October 2009, 22:04   #2158
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Originally Posted by ajai View Post
My wrist joint have severe pain while doing barbel curls . I can't do even a single rep .I am doing 5 min warmup and streching before doing any exercise. what should i do to cure this pain foreever. Can anyone help ?
You can wear gloves with straps on wrists- they help.
Try doing warm up and stretch for 15 mins atleast.

Did you checked with a physician- it can be an internal injury?
You must cure this before going further with exercising.
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Old 30th October 2009, 22:12   #2159
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Q for all experts-

I started gymming again in may 09.
Currently am weighing - 87kgs and height is 6.2
Current body fat - 15.32%

When i started weight was more than 100 and BF - 22%

I believe i had hit a plateau off late as am not able to see much improvements.
Had decided to follow this routine and need suggestion for exercises to be included for each body part.

Day1- Chest+ triceps+ upper abs
Day2- Biceps + Shoulder + lower abs
Day3- Legs and Back

Kindly pour in your suggestions keeping in mind i will be doing 4 exercises of 3 sets each for each body part.

Also let me know if biceps + back and Shoulder + legs combination is better.

Thanks.

Last edited by harry10 : 30th October 2009 at 22:14.
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Old 30th October 2009, 22:25   #2160
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I have a very important query.

I have just bought a bucket of Iso sensation 93 from a dealer here.

its in chocolate flavour.

I Already had one bucket earlier bought from a very trustable dealer in chandigarh.

now the problem is that on comparing both of them there is a slight variation in colour.the one i just bought is lighter in colour.Also a texture of the powder is slightly different.the one i just bought being a bit rough in texture.

Now regarding the taste the chandigarh one is sweeter than the one i just bought when the same quantities are mixed into the same amount of water.

Are these discrepancies normal.i mean the month of manufacture is same for both so can there be this much difference in manufacturing of whey.

Also some pointers in veryfying fake whey would be helpful from the seasoned gurus.

Thanks.

I need help ASAP so that i can decide on returning this pack.i won't have a problem in returning back this pack.
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