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Old 13th August 2013, 13:01   #3331
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Lesser number of repetitions with more weights will help to build muscles.
Guys in my gym who have good looking bods do pushups between the sets and generally spend double the time I spend exercising.
I've been focusing on this to try and push myself. Its yielded great results,especially with biceps,shoulder,lats and legs to an extent. The weaker areas remain chest and triceps. My muscles tire put way too quickly!
Over the last 2 weeks, been doing push-ups regularly too. I can do 20 with proper form now. Just hope in a few weeks i'll be able to bench more.

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Originally Posted by Dodge_Viper View Post
For point1: As far as I can suggest is to start up with Whey protein (assuming that you would be taking up supplements for the first time). Ultimate whey protien is recommended over ON's whey (this was suggested by my tutor who is a professional). Please stay away from Creatine. Creatine is not the stuff to start with. It will give serious health issues if proper care is not taken.

Since you mentioned your stamina is increasing but not as you expect, do you include cardio training? Cardio is a good way to increase stamina. Also distribute your workout in 3-3 days. 3 days heavy weights and 3 days light weights with more reps. More continous reps will also help in increasing your stamina.

And each person's body style is different. One person may look like Arnold in 6 months and doing the same workout another person might not.

Do share your fitness routine which you follow.
Thanks for the detailed reply! I do atleast 15 mins of cardio every single day. Either the elliptical or treadmill coupled with 20 mins of abs workouts immediately after weights. My schedule is as follows:

Day 1: Lat workouts (Lat pull downs with different grips,T bar and dumbell)
Day 2: Triceps (tricep stretch,,kickbacks,rope extensions)
Day 3: Chest(Bench press,incline press,seated fly's,inclined dumbell raises)
Day 4: Biceps (Dumbell curl,barbell curl etc)
Day 5: Shoulder(Dumbell shoulder press,dumbell raises,side lateral raises)
Day 6: Legs (Leg extensions,curls,calf raises etc)
Sunday rest, repeat same cycle the following week. Each day after weights I do about 50 declined sit ups, leg raises and V up's followed by about 15 mins of cardio)



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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Ah, finally something I can answer.

What is the purpose of your workout? If it is martial arts, then you have been going it the wrong way. Don't get influenced by big muscled people doing martial arts in the movies. Martial artists need fast functional muscles, not bulky muscles. Think Bruce lee, Jet Lee, Jackie Chan... Not Arnold, Stallone.

Focus more on body weight calisthenics and less on free weights. It is sustainable on a long run while taking normal food. I haven't taken single supplement in 29 years of workout. I still practice martial arts at 44.
I was hoping you'd reply,thanks

Yes over a period of a year or so will want to go back to martial arts. My body type is currently skinny fat (thin arms and legs but belly fat to an extent) so my martial arts instructor suggested I build some muscle to help with strengthening the joints for all the streches which is why I decided to join a gym. So far, it looks like i'm more into free weights and need to switchover to weight calisthenics. Just looked up a few videos and realized I don't do any of those exercises

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Old 13th August 2013, 13:39   #3332
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Kindly excuse this rather noobish question,but i'd love to hear what the experienced guys here think.

I've been avoiding supplements as much as I can, but looking at all my buddies' gains through supplements i'm thinking if I should take it. I have a few questions regarding supplements:
  • Should I take Whey Protein or Whey Isolate ? Also which brand is recommended ? I searched the thread and ON Gold Standard wasn't highly spoken off, Myofusion seems more popular.
  • Should I also take Creatine or Whey alone will suffice ?
  • Once I start, how many months will I have to take it for ? Is it till I build muscle or I'll have to continue taking it post that for however long I want big muscles. This is important since after a year or 2, I want to go back to martail arts. Thanks to my lean body I get injured 3 out of 5 days with martial arts!!
  • How long will a 5lb tub last considering they're pretty expensive at 5k or so a tub
  • Should I just increase the egg count and chicken ? Boiled eggs,tandoori chicken are quite difficult to eat after a certain point of time as I get bored with the taste :(
As far as my knowledge goes, creatine supplement is required to 'perform better' and mostly guys take it to be able to either lift heavier or do more reps/sets (and mostly by those going for the 'ripped body' look). Whey protein is good just to increase the protein intake apart from your regular proteins from food. As it states, its just a supplement (to your natural protein enriched food sources).

On the whey protein box/tub itself, it will mention how many spoons full you will get from it (and the serving spoon will be included in the box/tub, so spoon fulls by that count).

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Focus more on body weight calisthenics and less on free weights. It is sustainable on a long run while taking normal food. I haven't taken single supplement in 29 years of workout. I still practice martial arts at 44.
Firstly, why does this thread not have a 'thanks' button? Just curious.

And my question. What are the minimum requirements for anyone to try learning any specific martial art, in terms of body weight/mass? Particularly, are there any specific ones obese* people can try to learn which can aid in reducing body weight, bringing agility, etc?

* (for reference here) between 100 and 108kgs. Thanks Samurai/Sharath.

Last edited by k_ajay : 13th August 2013 at 13:49.
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Old 13th August 2013, 13:55   #3333
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Kindly excuse this rather noobish question,but i'd love to hear what the experienced guys here think.

Why Proteins ?
I've been working out for 2 months now and I eat about 6 egg whites a day with about 200 gms of chicken for protein to bulk up. My stamina and ability to lift weights has gradually increased but the results aren't exactly great i.e I could only lift the barbell when doing a bench press with NO weights at start, now I can do about 10 reps with 2.5 kgs before I tire out,anything higher is only with the trainer's assistance. Biceps i'm much better but max is 7.5 kgs.

I've been avoiding supplements as much as I can, but looking at all my buddies' gains through supplements i'm thinking if I should take it. I have a few questions regarding supplements:
  • Should I take Whey Protein or Whey Isolate ? Also which brand is recommended ? I searched the thread and ON Gold Standard wasn't highly spoken off, Myofusion seems more popular.
  • Should I also take Creatine or Whey alone will suffice ?
  • Once I start, how many months will I have to take it for ? Is it till I build muscle or I'll have to continue taking it post that for however long I want big muscles. This is important since after a year or 2, I want to go back to martail arts. Thanks to my lean body I get injured 3 out of 5 days with martial arts!!
  • How long will a 5lb tub last considering they're pretty expensive at 5k or so a tub
  • Should I just increase the egg count and chicken ? Boiled eggs,tandoori chicken are quite difficult to eat after a certain point of time as I get bored with the taste :(
I don't know much about supplements as I have never used them nor have I bothered to find out more about them. Think that ON supplement became famous after that recent John Abraham-Chitrangada Singh movie. Seen many people queue up for that.

From your post, I see that your purpose of hitting the gym is to have core strength more than merely a sculpted body.

I fully endorse Samurai's views on calisthenics. Why else do all army exercise guide books around the world use the simple: push up, pull up, chin up and sit up regimen, apart from running? Cos army people need core strength, not mere pumped up muscles.

Since you have a lean build, try this first.

Run on the treadmill for say about 40 minutes. Start at 8 Kph. (yeah I know it's slow but don't worry). Increase the speed by .5 kph increments every week. So by the end of 2 months, you should be doing about 12 Kph to 13 Kph speeds. Breathe deep while you're at it.

Once you manage about 7-8 Kms of running per day, you'll find that your belly fat will begin burning. In the 7-8 Kms of running, I suggest that you run at 12-13 Kph for 30 minutes, and then slow down in 0.5 Kph or 1 Kph decrements per minute until you hit the 40-45 minute mark. Never stop suddenly. Also try to run on your toes and not on your heels (good for your knees). Keep up your protein intake while at it (eggs, not chicken).


After your running each day, do about 10-15 minutes of cycling. 6-8 resistance should be great. Also stay hydrated while doing cardio since you'll be losing a lot of sweat while running and cycling.

Now, the running and cycling will take care of your stamina and will keep your heart healthy. Let's move to core strength.

For core strength, you've already been doing push ups. Good start.

Now, you need to hit the king of all upper body exercises: pull ups. This will give you fantastic strength in your upper body and back.

I suggest a routine that works for me.

After running and cycling, you hit the pull up circuit. Try doing one pull up at a time. If you find it difficult, try doing negatives. Plz use youtube for more info. In say 2-3 months, you should be able to do 10 pull ups per rep and five reps. So, that's about 50 pull ups per work out. That'll take serious strength (atleast for me). You'll be surprised that your body is actually capable of delivering this through practice.

After pull ups, you can do chin ups. This will give your biceps and forearms strength but it is easier than pulls ups. Aim for 10 pulls up per rep, and 5 reps.

Then you can move on to push ups. After all the pull ups and chin ups, push ups will be a piece of cake. You can hammer out about 6 reps of 15 push ups each. That's about 90 push ups a session.

You can also include free squats (use a pole or something for balance to get the technique right. Again, youtube will help.) After free squats, you can also use parallel bars for hip raises, etc.

Begin varying the position of each exercise each day but doing all the exercises won't hurt at all.

This work out is old school, but very, very effective. You don't need a gym to be strong and definitely not any supplements. You will notice that this whole session doesn't have any weights involved. Your body weight will ensure that you get uniform muscle development. (sometimes, many people who do free weights will have skewed muscle development, as usually one part of the body is stronger than the other. Say, your right arm might be able to lift more than the left, etc) You'll be surprised that many body builders will struggle to turn out 50 pull ups in 5 reps. And yes, you'll get that V-Shape of the back too with all this work.

NOTE: Increase the work out loads gradually. For the first two weeks, you might not be able to do one dead pull up/chin up also. Keep at it. Slowly increase the number, till you hit say 10 in each rep. Never hurry. Just enjoy the workouts. Also, you can use this program for 4-5 days a week. You'll be burning about 700 Kcalories per workout i guess.

Follow this routine for 6 months and then get back to martial arts. I have been to martial arts sessions. I agree that they're extremely demanding. Esp, the mixed martial arts which is done more as an exercise. But, this 6 months work out program will get you up to speed. I'm pretty sure of it.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 13th August 2013, 14:28   #3334
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
From your post, I see that your purpose of hitting the gym is to have core strength more than merely a sculpted body.
Thanks for the wonderfully detailed post! Its almost like a trainer handing out what you need to do

I already do most of the exercises mentioned above, albeit finish it all in 30 mins tops.

Treadmill: I run at 8 kph for about 5 mins (out of 20 mins in all) after which I tire out, should work on increasing that I think. Usually start at 6 and increase 4 times (.5 increments) till I hit 8, once I reduce from 8kph, i'm running at 7 or so.

Pull ups and Chin ups: I do the weight assisted type now. I can do about 10 with the weights at 25 kg or so. Do 3 sets of 10 reps. Trying to do the one without any assists but looks like I need to develop more strength. So I just grab onto the bar and hold for about a minute or so.

Cycling is for a mere 6mins or so, with resistance set at 4 or 5. Will have to increase that.

Push ups are only at 20 or so now. Will need a lot more stamina to increase the reps I believe

Last edited by bblost : 13th August 2013 at 14:29. Reason: Please avoid quoting large posts in full.
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Old 13th August 2013, 14:46   #3335
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
Firstly, why does this thread not have a 'thanks' button? Just curious.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post2738979 (Suggestions for Team-BHP from Team-BHPians)

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
And my question. What are the minimum requirements for anyone to try learning any specific martial art, in terms of body weight/mass? Particularly, are there any specific ones obese* people can try to learn which can aid in reducing body weight, bringing agility, etc?
I suggest Judo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Follow this routine for 6 months and then get back to martial arts.
The routine you described is very good, but also very intense for beginners to ramp up that fast. I would suggest he should ramp up according to his comfort level.
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Old 13th August 2013, 15:08   #3336
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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post


Push ups are only at 20 or so now. Will need a lot more stamina to increase the reps I believe
My 2 paisa after seeing the current status.

I think your cardio is too less right now.
Set first target of 5 k run on treadmill and then focus on speed work also try 100 pushups program it really works here is the link

http://www.hundredpushups.com/

There is an android app as well which is lot more user friendly.

Very soon you will realise it is no big deal.
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Old 13th August 2013, 15:33   #3337
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
As far as my knowledge goes, creatine supplement is required to 'perform better' and mostly guys take it to be able to either lift heavier or do more reps/sets (and mostly by those going for the 'ripped body' look).
Creating increases the ability of the muscle to shift weights over short distances/times, and to recover after a shorter rest to do this again. Supplementing is helpful if you don't eat red meat.
By itself, it does nothing for the body - the actual lifting heavier and working harder using progressive overload is what builds muscle. And the effect of bulk or ripped isn't to do with creatine, it is to do with what your diet looks like. The usual effect of creatine is opposite of ripped, it softens muscle definition because of extra water retention in the muscles.

Last edited by Sawyer : 13th August 2013 at 15:34.
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Old 13th August 2013, 17:10   #3338
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Then you can move on to push ups. After all the pull ups and chin ups, push ups will be a piece of cake. You can hammer out about 6 reps of 15 push ups each. That's about 90 push ups a session.
Mind Posting Your Photo, I'd seriously like to take a look at it. I nut shell i am expecting it to be similar to Bhaag Milkha Bhaag

Last edited by Samurai : 13th August 2013 at 18:16. Reason: fixed the quote
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Old 13th August 2013, 17:47   #3339
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Mind Posting Your Photo, I'd seriously like to take a look at it. I nut shell i am expecting it to be similar to Bhaag Milkha Bhaag
Haha. How I wish. For bhaag milkha bhaag body, you need to do something like this I guess-> http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...g-milkha-bhaag

And I think, one can follow the Bhaag Milkha Bhaag routine only if one is paid for it.

On another note, the routine I described won't give you big mass but good strength. So, no Bhaag Milkha illusions. Even if you try running, cycling, push ups, chin ups and pull ups at 50% of the level I've described, you'll notice significant strength changes in say 4-6 weeks. Try it.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 13th August 2013, 17:54   #3340
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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Haha. How I wish. For bhaag milkha bhaag body, you need to do something like this I guess-> http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...g-milkha-bhaag

And I think, one can follow the Bhaag Milkha Bhaag routine only if one is paid for it.

On another note, the routine I described won't give you big mass but good strength. So, no Bhaag Milkha illusions. Even if you try running, cycling, push ups, chin ups and pull ups at 50% of the level I've described, you'll notice significant strength changes in say 4-6 weeks. Try it.

Cheers,

Jay
This is nothing against you,but your advise is BS, don't get cross on it, a newbie or even a moderate exerciser can get serious injuries if they try to follow you. We have a responsibilty to fellow member whom we are advising. 8 kilometres, at speed of 13kph, then 20 minutes of cycling at 8 resistance. Followed by strength training. Chin up/ pull up. Squats after such intense cardio. Think about it. I am not a trainer, I guess neither are you. And claiming significant changes in 4 weeks ( a month!). Come on if you are serious and determined enough " significant" change would come in a year.
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Old 13th August 2013, 18:23   #3341
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Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post

This is nothing against you,but your advise is BS, don't get cross on it, a newbie or even a moderate exerciser can get serious injuries if they try to follow you. We have a responsibilty to fellow member whom we are advising. 8 kilometres, at speed of 13kph, then 20 minutes of cycling at 8 resistance. Followed by strength training. Chin up/ pull up. Squats after such intense cardio. Think about it. I am not a trainer, I guess neither are you. And claiming significant changes in 4 weeks ( a month!). Come on if you are serious and determined enough " significant" change would come in a year.
I somewhat concur to you.

Speed of 13 for 30 minutes for someone who is doing 5 minutes is too much.
That is why I said set a goal of 5 km and once you hit it then think of speed.

Frankly another cardio after 45 mts of running is not good untll goal is marathon
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Old 13th August 2013, 18:41   #3342
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Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
This is nothing against you,but your advise is BS, don't get cross on it, a newbie or even a moderate exerciser can get serious injuries if they try to follow you. We have a responsibilty to fellow member whom we are advising. 8 kilometres, at speed of 13kph, then 20 minutes of cycling at 8 resistance. Followed by strength training. Chin up/ pull up. Squats after such intense cardio. Think about it. I am not a trainer, I guess neither are you. And claiming significant changes in 4 weeks ( a month!). Come on if you are serious and determined enough " significant" change would come in a year.
It would have done a lot of good if you had read his post carefully.

"Run on the treadmill for say about 40 minutes. Start at 8 Kph. (yeah I know it's slow but don't worry). Increase the speed by .5 kph increments every week. So by the end of 2 months, you should be doing about 12 Kph to 13 Kph speeds. Breathe deep while you're at it."

Jay advised that one should start at 8 Kmph. and then gradually build it up to 13 kmph.

"Once you manage about 7-8 Kms of running per day, you'll find that your belly fat will begin burning. In the 7-8 Kms of running, I suggest that you run at 12-13 Kph for 30 minutes, and then slow down in 0.5 Kph or 1 Kph decrements per minute until you hit the 40-45 minute mark."

and regarding doing all the activities, he had a special mention that it will take weeks to get even one chin up done -

"NOTE: Increase the work out loads gradually. For the first two weeks, you might not be able to do one dead pull up/chin up also. Keep at it. Slowly increase the number, till you hit say 10 in each rep. Never hurry. Just enjoy the workouts. Also, you can use this program for 4-5 days a week. You'll be burning about 700 Kcalories per workout i guess."


Thanks Jay, great post.
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Old 13th August 2013, 18:43   #3343
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Mind Posting Your Photo, I'd seriously like to take a look at it. I nut shell i am expecting it to be similar to Bhaag Milkha Bhaag
To be honest by running you do not get that body. How many olympics sprinters of India do you see who sport that Rambo* kind of body?
Yes, you may now go home and cry as much as you want

So which olympics athletes really are muscular (in Rambo sense) - you will realize that usually it is the afro-americans. Genetics, not training.

If you want a Rambo body, you will have to do "intense bodybuilding". (which means heavy heavy weights and eating without abandon so that you can lift heavier the next time for months, and then stripping your fat away, crash diet and doing the pump style with medium/light weights again for weeks/months)


Bhaag Milkha Bhaag body = Rambo style of body = pumped and lean = fake or highly temporary, unless you are genetically blessed.

Last edited by alpha1 : 13th August 2013 at 18:48.
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Old 13th August 2013, 18:50   #3344
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It would have done a lot of good if you had read his post carefully.

"Run on the treadmill for say about 40 minutes. Start at 8 Kph. (yeah I know it's slow but don't worry). Increase the speed by .5 kph increments every week. So by the end of 2 months, you should be doing about 12 Kph to 13 Kph speeds. Breathe deep while you're at it."

Jay advised that one should start at 8 Kmph. and then gradually build it up to 13 kmph.

"Once you manage about 7-8 Kms of running per day, you'll find that your belly fat will begin burning. In the 7-8 Kms of running, I suggest that you run at 12-13 Kph for 30 minutes, and then slow down in 0.5 Kph or 1 Kph decrements per minute until you hit the 40-45 minute mark."

and regarding doing all the activities, he had a special mention that it will take weeks to get even one chin up done -

"NOTE: Increase the work out loads gradually. For the first two weeks, you might not be able to do one dead pull up/chin up also. Keep at it. Slowly increase the number, till you hit say 10 in each rep. Never hurry. Just enjoy the workouts. Also, you can use this program for 4-5 days a week. You'll be burning about 700 Kcalories per workout i guess."


Thanks Jay, great post.
Buddy let us not go in direction of " read his post...." To you it is a good post, great, don't change the direction.

How long do you think it will take a average person, let's say somewhat in middle age with job/ family to take care of to build upto 7-8 Kms daily with 13 kph, even 3 times a week with all other exercises mentioned. At least. A year if one can keep up with dedication. Lot of time body will break/ go in fatigue, plateau.

You like the advise excellent, don't comment on how I implemented the advise, comment on how you can benefit on it.

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Yes, you may now go home and cry as much as

Bhaag Milkha Bhaag body = Rambo style of body = pumped and lean = fake or highly temporary, unless you are genetically blessed.


Why do you wish for me to cry,I am the one supporting your logic.

Last edited by Samurai : 13th August 2013 at 18:58. Reason: back-to-back post
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Old 13th August 2013, 18:55   #3345
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Why do you wish for me to cry,I am the one supporting your logic.
Eeks, I misunderstood the context of your post, my post should've been in response to JayPrashanth.
And the crying would be done by shashank.nk (iff he has any notions that callisthenics will lead to bhaag milkha bhaag style body)

Sorry for the mix up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
I
From your post, I see that your purpose of hitting the gym is to have core strength more than merely a sculpted body.

I fully endorse Samurai's views on calisthenics. Why else do all army exercise guide books around the world use the simple: push up, pull up, chin up and sit up regimen, apart from running? Cos army people need core strength, not mere pumped up muscles.

Cheers,

Jay
Funny, if that is the reason then army should also have squats (albeit without any extra weight) in their regimen.
No?

The reason why army folks have the regimen is simple - to increase endurance. No one cares in the army if you can lift one person or three. But everyone cares if you can run for miles with your full gear. The basic strength requirement in army is pretty average demanding for most human males who are physically fit / active (and in their 20s). It is the stamina / endurance aspect that they wish to work on.

Running / route march trains their lower bodies and heart/lung system for endurance.
push up, pull up, chin up and sit up trains the upper body for endurance.

Last edited by alpha1 : 13th August 2013 at 19:03.
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