Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2016, 14:40   #4231
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,622
Thanked: 957 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyadassi View Post

Can squat workout lead to soreness in the calves?
Absolutely.
But not necessary.

It depends on how you squat.
Do you squat back or do you squat down.

[edit: Oh well you can ignore the boring prose I have written below and head over to an excellent analysis that I came across:
http://strengtheory.com/squat-mechanics-the-red-pill/
http://strengtheory.com/how-to-squat/ ]


If you squat back, then your aim is to keep the Tibia as vertical as possible, as a result of which: your torso leans forward while descending, and your hamstrings drive you up while ascending. This will feel mostly like doing a cross between goodmorning and deadlift.
During the whole exercise your soles will be planted steadily because your tibia is close to vertical (the way you naturally stand).
In fact you may feel like all your body-weight is acting on the heels.

What is the purpose of calves? To change the angle between the tibia and the soles*! Since it hardly changes in this calves mostly do isometric contraction to stabilize your feet and legs.


If you squat down, then your aim is to keep the torso as vertical as possible, as a result of which: your knees travel out while descending (meaning the tibias make an angle), and your quads and glutes drive you up while ascending. This will feel mostly like doing "hindu squats".
During the whole exercise your heels will have a tendency to lift up, because the calves and tibia try to maintain the 90 degree angle with feet, that they are so used to.
In fact you may feel like all your body-weight is acting on the toes.

What is the purpose of calves? To change the angle between the tibia and the soles*! Since it changes considerably, the calves mostly do isotonic contraction to actually move your tibia, feet, legs in tandem. This in itself becomes some workout to the calves.

But can it replace heel raise for calves. I don't think so since the calve's range of motion in a deliberate heel raise will be far greater than what one may do while doing squat

* Actually it is more complicated than that since the calf muscle (gastrocnemius) is connecting the heels with the femur NOT the tibia. http://info.visiblebody.com/bid/2398...-Gastrocnemius
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I never diet, probably because of a proverb in my native tongue. It says "one who cheats his stomach, will cheat anybody...".

So I focus on workout.
But let me offer a counterpoint.
What does it mean when someone talks about dieting or a diet?
It boils down to one rationally realizing that trusting his eating instincts leads him to mostly overeat or consume junk food.
And why does this happen?

There are some genetic markers that cause faster satiety in some people.
Some will cause longer period of satiety.

Then of course there is a difference in food. The less water content in food, the more calorie dense it is (typically refined and processed food of any kind). But our stomach can only feel the volume of food, not the weight, not the calories.
So it is very easy to over consume calories while eating junk, but almost impossible to over consume full of water raw vegetables and fruits.

And then there are hormonal problems that people may have with Thyroid levels.

To this you may say - why bother. If the weight goes up, let it.
*sigh* but everyone's goals are different in life.
Some want to make money for enjoyment later in life, some want to enjoy today and thus not focus too much on "money making". Some want to make money because they don't have any other "noble" aim in life. Some are making money while fulfilling some other noble aim.
No one in the above is right or wrong - it is just that everyone has a defined a different objective and purpose.

Last edited by alpha1 : 17th June 2016 at 15:04.
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2016, 15:26   #4232
Senior - BHPian
 
fine69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,403
Thanked: 845 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

I'm back with another injury After ankle, knees, shoulder and wrist its the dreaded lower back!

So I was progressing well in squats but the moment I got out of the comfort zone and started lifting heavy (by my standards) I had a slight pain in lower back, not when I was squatting but when I was keeping the weight back on the squat rack.

I was doing 5 sets of 5 reps each and while my lower back did feel the pressure it was never painful. However, the moment I would be done with a set I would walk back to the squat rack (facing away) and keep the barbell back, left side first and then the right side. Since the weight was heavy I could feel the right side of my lower back take a lot of pressure (it was a little painful too) while keeping the weight on the right side of the squat rack.

Of course I was stupid to keep the weight back like this (one by one) but the damage had already been done. The lower back pain eventually went away but there was constant pain in the upper glute (right side only).

I stopped working out altogether and things were looking good and one day I decided to squat without any weight, did some 50+ pushups and about 25 chin-ups. The pain came back to the right glute the very next day.

Then I stopped working out for another 2 weeks but the pain in the glute persisted. Yesterday I decided to squat with just 35 kgs and the pain has returned not just to the glute but the lower back as well.

So I know not to squat for a long time and have decided to go back to swimming for a while. I might visit a Chiropractor too (opinions welcome, so far its this guy - http://back2health.in/about-2/team/) but still wanted to share my experience and get some hands-on insight if someone has faced issues with lower back.
fine69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2016, 15:34   #4233
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,351
Thanked: 14,178 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Whenever I tried to reduce weight via dieting, I end up feeling not so good. I feel bloated if I change the type of food, feel weak if I eat less, etc. I used to be 5'8" before losing hair, now that I shave my head, I have lost quarter inch in height. But I am usually at 85kgs, which is bad from BMI point of view. But they say muscular people can ignore BMI.

Anyway, I wanted to clarify something else. What qualifies as a cold chinup/pullup? Should one come to hanging position or just 150 degree at the elbow is enough? I just recorded my chinups, wanted to know it counts as cold or warm chinups. I usually do 7 per set, but in the video I could crank only 6 for some reason. My chin is going above bar every time, the low placement camera angle might not show it.


Last edited by Samurai : 17th June 2016 at 15:43.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2016, 18:50   #4234
Senior - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,954
Thanked: 1,591 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
I'm back with another injury After ankle, knees, shoulder and wrist its the dreaded lower back!
Ouch. Sorry to hear about your injury. I have been there a few times till last year. And then I hired a personal trainer who devised workouts for me centered around my weak points. Turns out I needed a stronger core and lats to strengthen my back! Huh. So, after a lot of deadbugs, side chops, ball slams, rows etc, I have been back pain free for more than 6 months. And in these 6 months, I have taken up cycling as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Whenever I tried to reduce weight via dieting, I end up feeling not so good. I feel bloated if I change the type of food, feel weak if I eat less, etc. I used to be 5'8" before losing hair, now that I shave my head, I have lost quarter inch in height. But I am usually at 85kgs, which is bad from BMI point of view. But they say muscular people can ignore BMI.
Reducing weight through dieting alone will give only temporary benefits. Better is to analyse and change your diet, if needed and pair it with some form of exercise.

What's your body fat %age? I ask because I'd like to know at what %age you can start to ignore BMI. Btw, I am only about a kg heavier than you, but 6' 3" and my weighing machine says I am at 17.5% body fat.
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2016, 19:20   #4235
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,351
Thanked: 14,178 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
What's your body fat %age? I ask because I'd like to know at what %age you can start to ignore BMI. Btw, I am only about a kg heavier than you, but 6' 3" and my weighing machine says I am at 17.5% body fat.
I have no idea about my fat percentage. I doubt I can use the pinch method correctly, how about a device like this?
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2016, 19:26   #4236
Senior - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,954
Thanked: 1,591 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I have no idea about my fat percentage. I doubt I can use the pinch method correctly, how about a device like this?
That looks good. The pinch method is one of the most accurate methods though, if done properly. That's why I rely on my weighing machine more to tell me whether I am moving in the right direction or not.
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2016, 21:45   #4237
mxh
BHPian
 
mxh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 218
Thanked: 191 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I have no idea about my fat percentage. I doubt I can use the pinch method correctly, how about a device like this?
These devices do work. I read somewhere that they send a minute amount of current through the body. And since muscle and fat conduct at a different rate, it shows up in the current readings and from that the body fat and other parameters can be deduced. Omron is a good brand; I have an Omron digital thermometer that's working fine for the last few years.
mxh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2016, 11:49   #4238
BHPian
 
Jaguar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 561
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
The pinch method is one of the most accurate methods though, if done properly.
Here is a video explaining how to measure body fat at home using the pinch method

Maybe the above method along with this would give a fairly accurate result.

Last edited by Jaguar : 18th June 2016 at 11:53.
Jaguar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2016, 12:03   #4239
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,351
Thanked: 14,178 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

I had seen enough pinching videos before I decided it is not for me. They seem to have skins that look disconnected from the muscle. When I try to do that, it hurts and my skin doesn't come out freely like that. So my reading will be zero every time.

Anyway, I ordered the Omron device. I know they are a legit company, their Bangalore unit used to be in the same building as my office.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2016, 15:48   #4240
BHPian
 
Piyadassi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: NCR Delhi
Posts: 52
Thanked: 63 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
What is the purpose of calves? To change the angle between the tibia and the soles*! Since it hardly changes in this calves mostly do isometric contraction to stabilize your feet and legs.
Thanks. You surely are one minefield of information. Curious to know more about you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
I'm back with another injury After ankle, knees, shoulder and wrist its the dreaded lower back!
Form, form, and form…

Let this never slip out of your mind. If need be lower the weight in case of slightest doubt. It should become your second nature and will stand you in good stead when you go heavy.

Having said that 5x5 programme or any such heavy weight low rep training protocol should be backed up with experience. That you were ignoring the turn torso made while keeping the weight back should have been immediately rectified by you.

Now coming to the glutes. If squat is the culprit it could be that right glute is taking more force to balance the weight. Next time observe how you unload the weight. Ideally, you should walk back and when the barbell is up against the frames slight bent of knee and it should be off your shoulder. Further, also pay attention to your posture while you are walking back.

However, your posture while you drive, the extension of the leg while pressing the pedal could also be the culprit.

I would once again reiterate that going heavy on compound lifts takes much more than the exercise itself. It is not without reason that 10 reps is mostly recommended to the masses.

HINDSIGHT: How's your body posture otherwise? Do you stand erect and straight? Ideally, your vertebral column should form a double S structure and hind should not be slouched but in sync with the tail bone curve outward.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I just recorded my chinups, wanted to know it counts as cold or warm chinups.
Can't tell you about cold or warm chinups but if you could avoid the lower limb movement it would be complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Anyway, I ordered the Omron device. I know they are a legit company, their Bangalore unit used to be in the same building as my office.
Such impedance devices, I am told are not exactly counted accurate. What I do is basic. Take my percentage as measured by online calculators and then compare my physique with online fat percentage photos. May a percentage or two or three haywire but I get a rough idea. Beside, mirror tells me most explicitly where I am going.

Last edited by Piyadassi : 18th June 2016 at 15:55.
Piyadassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2016, 01:07   #4241
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,351
Thanked: 14,178 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyadassi View Post
Can't tell you about cold or warm chinups but if you could avoid the lower limb movement it would be complete.
Does the limb movement really matter? It is quite involuntary.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2016, 08:01   #4242
BHPian
 
rajushank84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 861
Thanked: 349 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

I never realized this thread exists on team-bhp. I want in!

So far all I've done is fat loss, over a year now. Still losing, I have a ways to go. Once I get down to say 14-15% I will start adding muscle. I started at 200lb 37% bodyfat and now am currently at around 142lb 18-19% bodyfat. I do this with calorie deficit, 35%-35%-30% (protein-carbs-fat) ratio, and weights 3 times a week.

It has really slowed down now, mostly due to me not really being in a deficit most of the time (for the last month or so). Sustained continuous deficit is difficult, so I am giving myself a break and eating at maintenance until my Hawaii vacation in the first week of July (first trip to Hawaii, yay!). After the vacation I plan to resume it, and hope I make some decent progress by Jan 2017. Hopefully sometime by mid next year I will be in a decent shape to start reverse diet for recomp or slow bulk. But first things first, I need to focus on losing this fat first!

Last edited by rajushank84 : 20th June 2016 at 08:06.
rajushank84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2016, 09:00   #4243
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,553
Thanked: 774 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I had seen enough pinching videos before I decided it is not for me. They seem to have skins that look disconnected from the muscle. When I try to do that, it hurts and my skin doesn't come out freely like that. So my reading will be zero every time.

Anyway, I ordered the Omron device. I know they are a legit company, their Bangalore unit used to be in the same building as my office.
If you isolate a part where you know you have muscle (maybe biceps?) , you should easily see skin coming out easily
srishiva is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2016, 10:20   #4244
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,351
Thanked: 14,178 Times
Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
If you isolate a part where you know you have muscle (maybe biceps?) , you should easily see skin coming out easily
Nope, I can't get my skin to separate from the body anywhere.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2016, 11:57   #4245
BHPian
 
rajushank84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 861
Thanked: 349 Times
Default Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Hey guys - please don't use the Omron handheld device, it's way off. I've been using it for more than a year now. I say it's way off because it says I'm 15%, and there's just no way I'm 15%. I'm more like 19% (optimistic), perhaps more. If you look at me you will agree there's just no way in the world I'm 15% (I'll be happy to post pics if you want).

This is what I do:
- I get a reading from the Omron device (says 15)
- a reading from my weight scale (varies wildly between 20 and 30)
- measure using calipers (19)
- use the navy method (19)
- I post on the "guess my bodyfat" thread on bodybuilding forums, and the people there say I should be 18-19.

So I tend to think my fat percentage is closer to 19 (more than one method points to it, and also look like it from pics of myself).

I mean the omron handled device is still ok to track progress I guess (as long as it's headed in a downward rather than upward direction over time) but I wouldn't base TDEE calculations on it, they are too optimistic. Especially for fat loss. If you do use it, I suggest please correlate that reading with other methods too. (Easiest to correlate is the navy method, all it needs is tape measurements).

Last edited by rajushank84 : 20th June 2016 at 12:05.
rajushank84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Corporate Team Building Exercises - In a Rally Car! GTO Indian Motorsport 1 26th May 2014 15:11
Evolution and History of Mercedes models over years - C, E, S and SL Class and more v12 The International Automotive Scene 52 13th September 2010 12:06
Safari GX 4x4 Mineral Red - Booked and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting... HappyWheels Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 166 9th August 2009 11:54
Happy Vishu! And Baisakhi, and Bihu and Paila Baisakh Steeroid Shifting gears 17 16th April 2008 18:43
Street and drag racing in and around LA (Illegal and legal).. chetanhanda Street Experiences 0 8th October 2007 07:20


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:11.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks