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Old 12th July 2016, 03:48   #4291
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

@Urban_Nomad looks solid to me. I would up the protein though, probably 140/140 protein/carb.
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Old 12th July 2016, 12:47   #4292
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@Urban_Nomad looks solid to me. I would up the protein though, probably 140/140 protein/carb.
Thanks bud! I totally agree. Am upping protein to around 140 and aiming to keep carbs around 100-120 or lower (not valid on Sunday binge )

Also, will see if I can add another day of cardio. Any recommendation on no. of sets / reps? I'm thinking of continuing with this for at least another 3 months before changing my routine (next split - upper n lower body, probably)
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Old 12th July 2016, 17:26   #4293
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Vital stats & Goals
Similar age, height and goals as me! Would be fun to exchange notes. I started at 90 with aim to 75 which I achieved in a year or so.


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Workout regimen: I have been working out for only 3 weeks now. I follow the "Legs, push, pull" routine + some HIIT cardio.
This is the recommended breakup.

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Monday – Legs
You should add lunges and seated / standing calves to this workout. My typical: curls, squats, lunges, press, reverse curls, calves.

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Tuesday – Pull
You should follow Back & Bicep for this day. Example could be deadlift, lat pull downs, seated rows, single dumbbell row, shrugs, bicep curl, hammer, preacher, back extension.

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Thu: Push
You should follow Chest, Shoulder, Tricep for this day. Example could be bench press (incline, decline, flat), fly, shoulder x 3 and triceps x 2-3.

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
Monday – Legs
Tuesday – Pull
Wed: Rest
Thu: Push
Fri : HIIT cardio + Abs
Sat + Sun - Rest, with generally low activity
Why don’t you try Mon CST, Wed Legs, Fri BB with cardio on Tue and Sat with break on Thu and Sun? That way muscles get time to relax and keeps you going.

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@Urban_Nomad looks solid to me. I would up the protein though, probably 140/140 protein/carb.
Agreed – also, if you’re veg (without eggs), you might want to up it a bit more.

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I'm thinking of continuing with this for at least another 3 months before changing my routine (next split - upper n lower body, probably)
Why would you change? You should do weights for 3 days in a week. You could change some exercises here and there for a variety.

Also, for cardio, what are you doing?

Happy to answer any further queries!
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Old 12th July 2016, 17:52   #4294
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Thanks a ton for such a detailed response. Will definitely share updates and seek you out for advice

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Similar age, height and goals as me! Would be fun to exchange notes. I started at 90 with aim to 75 which I achieved in a year or so.
How strict were you with your diet? Any cheat days or cheat meals (planned of course). I don't want to get into a fancy diet that I am not able to sustain for long. Junk food is going to be a part of life, just want to be smart about it and not over-indulge

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You should add lunges and seated / standing calves to this workout. My typical: curls, squats, lunges, press, reverse curls, calves.

You should follow Back & Bicep for this day. Example could be deadlift, lat pull downs, seated rows, single dumbbell row, shrugs, bicep curl, hammer, preacher, back extension.

You should follow Chest, Shoulder, Tricep for this day. Example could be bench press (incline, decline, flat), fly, shoulder x 3 and triceps x 2-3.
Recommended reps + sets per exercise? I actually tried weighted lunges. I simply could not support myself (especially on the left side) and felt completely exhausted (did this after weighted squats and deadlift). I think I ll have to earn the right to do lunges. My core is weak; belly is like dough. Need to work on that

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Why don’t you try Mon CST, Wed Legs, Fri BB with cardio on Tue and Sat with break on Thu and Sun? That way muscles get time to relax and keeps you going.
I feel quite destroyed after leg day to be honest and running after leg day is pretty much out. Hence I try and space out cardio and legs as much as possible

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Agreed – also, if you’re veg (without eggs), you might want to up it a bit more.
Pure NON veg I am

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Why would you change? You should do weights for 3 days in a week. You could change some exercises here and there for a variety.
Don't know. Remember reading somewhere that you should mix it up every few months or so. Don't really have a solid logic behind it myself

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Also, for cardio, what are you doing?
Treadmill - Here's how it goes:

- 2 minutes brisk walk
- 3 minutes jog at 10.5 kmph; 0 incline
- 40 - 45 Seconds flat out sprint @ 14.5 kmph; 0 incline
- Rest / Slow walk ~6 KMPH for 1 min 30 sec
- Repeat sprint and rest 4 times total
- 3 minutes jog at 10.5 kmph; 0 incline
- 2 minutes brisk walk

Thinking of moving on to the elliptical or stationary bike though. I feel its easy to hurt yourself sprinting flat out, especially when you go full on immediately after rest

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Happy to answer any further queries!
Thanks. Just some additional info - I am using my office gym for my workouts. So the machines are limited; as are the weights. Only dumbbells available, no rods. Max dumbbell weight available is 17.5 KG. Cant do calves either as there is no "calves machine" available. Any recommendations based on this info?
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Old 12th July 2016, 20:39   #4295
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Thanks a ton for such a detailed response. Will definitely share updates and seek you out for advice
Anytime! I read somewhere that fitness is a lot about getting support from your peers.


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How strict were you with your diet? Any cheat days or cheat meals (planned of course). I don't want to get into a fancy diet that I am not able to sustain for long. Junk food is going to be a part of life, just want to be smart about it and not over-indulge
Was not that strict but made certain changes. Milk and milk products were totally changed to low/no fat versions. This included the curd and paneer as well. Apart from this, I increased my protein intake (eggs and shakes) as I am “egg”etarian. On a regular basis, I also reduced my parathas to chapattis and the quantities of foods I used to eat. So if I would eat 2 McAloos, now it’s 1. I also enjoy a few drinks a couple of times a week (read: with a dedicated driver) which I haven’t reduced at all. But then I reduced the snacks along with the drinks (e.g. fried bhajjiyas, etc were converted to salads / peanuts).

So overall, yes – I did make certain changes to my diet. But no – not anything that was tough and unsustainable. It’s the small changes that will help you.

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Recommended reps + sets per exercise? I actually tried weighted lunges. I simply could not support myself (especially on the left side) and felt completely exhausted (did this after weighted squats and deadlift). I think I ll have to earn the right to do lunges. My core is weak; belly is like dough. Need to work on that
Start with freehand lunges. Check out on bodybuilding various types in which lunges can be done including stationary, walking, etc. For reps, since you are starting, aim for 18-15-12 reps for 3 sets which can evolve as you become comfortable with the equipment, weights and form.


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I feel quite destroyed after leg day to be honest and running after leg day is pretty much out. Hence I try and space out cardio and legs as much as possible
Hence I recommended legs on Wed and then cardio on Sat. Do proper stretching post workout to reduce the soreness. Stretching is very critical and a lot of folks don't do that.


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Don't know. Remember reading somewhere that you should mix it up every few months or so. Don't really have a solid logic behind it myself
You can mix them up but read up on bodybuilding or other such websites the preferred splits. It would typically be split across the 6 body parts, i.e. chest, shoulder, back, bicep, tricep, legs.

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Treadmill - Here's how it goes:
Do the HIIT once a week. This is good but the cycles should be ideally of 2 min each in which you eventually increase your sprint speed. The 45sec and 75sec splits for run and walk seems fine. Cycles should also increase to 10-15! You should literally feel like puking once you’re done with this along with a wet treadmill!

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Thinking of moving on to the elliptical or stationary bike though. I feel its easy to hurt yourself sprinting flat out, especially when you go full on immediately after rest
Definitely. Find another form of cardio for the remaining which won’t be so heavy on the knees. Or do low intensity treadmill on the other day, i.e. running at steady pace for 40-45min. I personally have taken up Zumba.


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Thanks. Just some additional info - I am using my office gym for my workouts. So the machines are limited; as are the weights. Only dumbbells available, no rods. Max dumbbell weight available is 17.5 KG. Cant do calves either as there is no "calves machine" available. Any recommendations based on this info?
Again, you should visit websites such as bodybuilding as they have tons of exercises in their database based on what equipment you have access to. It’s really good and I use their exercises when I am traveling and don’t have access to a gym. YouTube also has a good collection of useful videos, including for other types of HIIT and workouts which can be done literally anywhere.
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Old 15th July 2016, 05:24   #4296
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Default Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

@Urban_Nomad I just want to chime in that cardio is COMPLETELY optional. Whatever calories you burn from cardio can be worked into your intake (just eat that much less) and it's exactly the same. The experts over at bodybuilding.com say the same, and I can personally vouch for (significant) fat loss happening with zero cardio. A lot of bodybuilders do zero cardio (and a lot of bodybuilders do a lot of cardio too).

Of course cardio has health benefits like you build the ability to walk for a long time, heart is healthy etc, but for bodybuilding / weight loss it's exactly the same as eating less.

So if you are finding it difficult to incorporate cardio into your routine, I would skip it (I am, in fact) and adjust intake accordingly.

Also, to what extent does cardio affect your energy level? Recovering for the next workout day is more important than getting the cardio in. Do you finding yourself lifting heavier or doing more reps when you are doing no cardio?

Personally, working out 3 times a day takes every ounce of my energy. Especially on a calorie deficit. So I just save up all of my energy for that, I even take the elevator instead of stairs . And then try to use every bit of energy I can muster in my lifts. That maxes me out. There's just nothing left for running or cycling.

But don't get me wrong, cardio is a great calorie-consuming tool. A lot of people use it for an additional calorie deficit so that they can still eat enough to get nutrition in and put themselves in a higher deficit through cardio, leading to quicker fat loss.

I'm just saying it's not a mandatory tool. Use it if you find it useful (i.e you need to eat that many calories), but if you would prefer to just eat less instead (as a lot of people do) then that is fine too.

A buddy of mine does kickboxing for cardio, he finds it refreshing and he says he feels MORE energetic, not less energetic (unlike me) when doing cardio. Plus it gives him more room to eat. Plus he's learning a martial art which could be useful anytime. Win-win-win. If that's the case, in my opinion by all means go ahead. Something like a sport is great too, fun while consuming calories. Or dance.

But if you're like me and would rather sit on the couch when not working out (lifting), but you are ok with eating less, then that will have exactly the same effect too. So don't stress too much over incorporating cardio if it gets difficult to do so.

There are a lot of places where you can read / watch videos about this (and I myself tested it with one year of fat loss), but I would start with the legendary "How to lose fat" thread on the bodybuilding forum which has pretty much become the go-to resource for effective fat loss:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=129247741
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=127783743

Cardio being essential or not discussed in depth in these threads.

Last edited by rajushank84 : 15th July 2016 at 05:49.
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Old 15th July 2016, 13:28   #4297
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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on how I can do it better:

Goals:

- Reduce weight down to 75
- Fat % of 15% or less
- Gain strength
- Gain flexibility

Workout regimen: I have been working out for only 3 weeks now. I follow the "Legs, push, pull" routine + some HIIT cardio. Here's what it looks like:

Diet:

Keeping my calories under 1600 a day,
Your goal of less fat will be met by the caloric reduction that you are doing.

Increased Reps and sets increase the pump as well as hypertrophy. IF that is the aim, then good, but is the aim is to simply improve strength - then the volume (sets x reps x exercises) you are doing may be way too high.

Perhaps the weights you are beginning with may be quite less taxing for your body - currently, but as you increase your strength and reduce your body fat - this much of volume may 'kill' you.

Last edited by alpha1 : 15th July 2016 at 13:29.
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Old 19th July 2016, 21:27   #4298
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Ok - Quick update.

Have not weighed myself but have been tracking my calories plus macros closely. Here's what last week's numbers look like:

- Protein : 137 (Against a target of 148)
- Carbs : 138 (Against a target of 148)
- Fat : 43 (Against a target of 56)
- Calories : 1700 (Against a target of 1600)

Saturday + Sunday did me in (Office party = free khana peena on Saturday + Night out with friends on Sunday). While an anomaly, its definitely not routine so I should be able to fix this and keep my average calories under 1500 this week

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So if you are finding it difficult to incorporate cardio into your routine, I would skip it (I am, in fact) and adjust intake accordingly.

Also, to what extent does cardio affect your energy level? Recovering for the next workout day is more important than getting the cardio in. Do you finding yourself lifting heavier or doing more reps when you are doing no cardio?
Different folks, different strokes I guess. I am a foodie and if I can take in a few extra nibbles for which I may have to work out a bit more, I will take that option. Plus, its just a psychological thing but if I work out 3 days a week; I feel like I worked out "only" 3 days and not for the "majority" of the week. I feel good anytime I can hit 4 days. Plus, my core is really weak. Post HIIT cardio (Stationary bike this time - loved it; barring the strange looks from the folks around me LOL), this is the abs routine I am following:



On the second run, I could not get up to do the plank. My stomach was cramped and I had difficulty even breathing. I just lay there for many minutes till my stomach loosened up a bit and I could move again

So ya, this 4th day is important for me I guess

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Perhaps the weights you are beginning with may be quite less taxing for your body - currently, but as you increase your strength and reduce your body fat - this much of volume may 'kill' you.
Thanks Alpha! Here's what the weight looks like:

Monday - Legs

Free squats - 3 sets of 10-15 reps, 2 - 3 second pause
Dumbbell squats - 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps, 5 KG dumbbell in each hand
Dumbbell deadlifts - 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps, 1 to 2 sec pause, 5 KG dumbbell in each hand
Leg press - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 12th (of total 20) plate on machine (does not say what weight)
Leg extension - 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps, 7th (of total 20) plate on machine
Reverse leg curls - 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps, 5th (of total 20) plate on machine

Tuesday - Pull

Warm up with diamond push ups - 30
Lat pulls - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 11th (of total 20) plate on machine
Reverse grip closed lat pulls - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 10th (of total 20) plate on machine
Rowing - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 9th (of total 20) plate on machine
Preacher - 3 sets of 6 - 8, 4th (of total 20) plate on machine
Hammer curls (changed it from Pullover) - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 7.5 KG dumbbell


Thu: Push

Warm up with push ups - 40
Dumbbell press - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 12.5 KG dumbbell in each hand
Dumbbell shoulder press - 3 sets of 8 - 10, 10 KG dumbbell in each hand
Incline press - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 10 KG dumbbell in each hand
Pullover - 12.5 KG Dumbbell
Shoulder fly - 3 sets of 8 - 10, 5 KG dumbbell in each hand
Tricep push down - 3 sets of 8 - 10, 5th (of total 20) plate on machine

Hope this gives you some idea of the weight I am lifting. This in my opinion is definitely not much. I am focusing on form and want to progress gradually. I have made some increment in weight since I started, but not by a huge number

Edit - I am thinking of increasing the sets to 4 (from 3) on some of the compound exercises, mostly because I enjoy doing them. Tried today (Pull work out) and overall felt better. Thoughts?

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 19th July 2016 at 21:37.
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Old 19th July 2016, 21:49   #4299
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Ok - Quick update.

Have not weighed myself but have been tracking my calories plus macros closely. Here's what last week's numbers look like:

- Protein : 137 (Against a target of 148)
- Carbs : 138 (Against a target of 148)
- Fat : 43 (Against a target of 56)
- Calories : 1700 (Against a target of 1600)
Maybe a noob question but isn't that too few calories. The recommended number of calories for even a sedentary person is between 2000 to 2600 calories. Also I read somewhere that calorie deficit diets don't work too well since the body adjusts its performance accordingly and gains the weight back after the initial weight loss
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Old 19th July 2016, 22:13   #4300
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Maybe a noob question but isn't that too few calories. The recommended number of calories for even a sedentary person is between 2000 to 2600 calories. Also I read somewhere that calorie deficit diets don't work too well since the body adjusts its performance accordingly and gains the weight back after the initial weight loss
I am no expert and my knowledge is limited to whatever I have read on the net. Based on that, calorie intake is dependent on a variety of factors like your weight, height and goals. For example - My maintenance calories with a sedentary lifestyle come around 2000 a day. I am aiming for a deficit of 400 - 500, which IMO is not drastic

Another factor here is the metabolism, which basically means how much my body is burning if I am doing nothing but for example watching TV. Higher the lean muscle mass, higher the metabolism

But you are right. To continuously lose weight, one would need to be in deficit which would change every time you lose weight. Like I started at 87 KG and per "myfitnesspal", I should have a calorie intake of around 1750 to lose a pound a week. At 84 KG now, its 1690. As I continue to lose weight, I will need to reduce the calorie intake

Experts can chime in with their thoughts

I will say this though, at these levels - I don't feel sluggish or deprived on energy. On the contrary, I feel great! I am also following the intermittent fasting pattern of eating and its again something that works very well for me. Besides the work out listed above, I also commute to work on my motorcycle 4 days a week, 100 Kms a day with the odd off road session thrown in every other weekend. Again, I feel absolutely fine!

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Old 19th July 2016, 22:26   #4301
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Dumbbell squats - 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps, 5 KG dumbbell in each hand
Dumbbell deadlifts - 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps, 1 to 2 sec pause, 5 KG dumbbell in each hand

Dumbbell press - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 12.5 KG dumbbell in each hand
Dumbbell shoulder press - 3 sets of 8 - 10, 10 KG dumbbell in each hand
Incline press - 3 sets of 10 - 12 reps, 10 KG dumbbell in each hand
Any particular reason why you are not using barbells for the above exercises? At least I find it easier to lift more weight while maintaining good form using a barbell, rather than a dumbell.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 19th July 2016, 22:42   #4302
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Any particular reason why you are not using barbells for the above exercises? At least I find it easier to lift more weight while maintaining good form using a barbell, rather than a dumbell.

Cheers,
Vikram
Hey Vikram - Had posted this clarification a few days ago:

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Just some additional info - I am using my office gym for my workouts. So the machines are limited; as are the weights. Only dumbbells available, no rods. Max dumbbell weight available is 17.5 KG. Cant do calves either as there is no "calves machine" available
Would prefer Barbell myself, but have to make do with what I have at least for the time being
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Old 20th July 2016, 09:46   #4303
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These devices do work. I read somewhere that they send a minute amount of current through the body. And since muscle and fat conduct at a different rate, it shows up in the current readings and from that the body fat and other parameters can be deduced. Omron is a good brand; I have an Omron digital thermometer that's working fine for the last few years.
The machines measure the BMI of the legs only. Let me explain. The current enters your body from your left leg, then exits from the nearest point of exit, via your groin through the right leg into the device. So it doesn't really measure the fat percentage of the entire body. It then takes your age, height and weight to extrapolate your BMI. So if you have thin legs but muscular body, you will be termed fat, versus muscular legs and underdeveloped body you will be termed fit.
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Old 20th July 2016, 11:10   #4304
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Thanks Alpha! Here's what the weight looks like:

Hope this gives you some idea of the weight I am lifting. This in my opinion is definitely not much. I am focusing on form and want to progress gradually. I have made some increment in weight since I started, but not by a huge number

Edit - I am thinking of increasing the sets to 4 (from 3) on some of the compound exercises, mostly because I enjoy doing them. Tried today (Pull work out) and overall felt better. Thoughts?
Agree, the current regime is mostly like body weight exercises, and one can keep doing it throughout the day, perhaps daily, without really taxing the nervous system.

But I must still ask you, if your goal is to "improve strength" in a weightlifter/powerlifter/strongman kind of way. Or is it improve strength in "stamina activities" like some people will call holding a plank position for 5 minutes as a display of strength.

Both are different and both require different approaches. Of course, nothing to rack your brains over at this stage - but lets say 6 months down the line you may need to think.

"improve strength" - typically requires minimal volume (setXrepsXexercises) and concentrating on only few large movements.
"improve stamina" - typically requires humongous volume and working on to exercise everything in the body

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Maybe a noob question but isn't that too few calories. The recommended number of calories for even a sedentary person is between 2000 to 2600 calories. Also I read somewhere that calorie deficit diets don't work too well since the body adjusts its performance accordingly and gains the weight back after the initial weight loss
Well then what do "the experts" suggest?
Eat more (to "boost metabolism") to lose more?


And end up being ever more fat than one begins with?
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Old 20th July 2016, 11:34   #4305
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Well then what do "the experts" suggest?
Eat more (to "boost metabolism") to lose more?


And end up being ever more fat than one begins with?
Take a look the the book "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes. It is definitely worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Get_Fat
It points to scientific evidence that carb rich diets are the biggest culprit in getting fat.

quote: "Analyzing anthropological evidence and modern scientific literature, Taubes contends that the common “calories in, calories out” model of why we get fat is overly simplistic and misleading because it ignores the multiple complex physiological responses to different foods. It is a more powerful issue than just the calories which would be released as heat by burning the food in a lab calorimeter. Instead, Taubes notes the advantages of a low carbohydrate diet. He argues that the consumption of carbohydrates drives the body to release insulin, which in turn can lead to insulin resistance (and diabetes) over time. Taubes also asserts that the consumption of carbohydrates leads the body to store excess energy in fat cells, but that reducing dietary intake of carbohydrates results in the body entering ketosis. In this state, the body breaks down fat (triglycerides) in order to fuel the brain.
Taubes states in the book that it's not about fat people eating too much and exercising too little or skinny people eating well and exercising a lot. In hunter-gather time periods, humans' lives were spent finding food so when they found a surplus the human body would go into storage mode. Today we don't have the problem of finding food yet our body is still set up to eat as much as possible and store as much as possible for famine times. This leads to excess weight to be put on. Taubes compares getting fat to smoking cigarettes: "Not every long-term smoker gets lung cancer — in fact, only a minority do — but among people with lung cancer, smoking is by far the most common cause. In a world without cigarettes, lung cancer would be a rare disease, as it once was," he writes. "In a world without carbohydrate-rich diets, obesity would be a rare condition as well."
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