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Old 30th November 2016, 22:07   #4426
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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I do not agree that just because Casein is marketed as a bedtime supplement, you need to take it at night.
I agree to this. If that were the case, then you would not eat paneer at any time of the day other than night
But there is some merit to taking casein at night.
I used to take one scoop of whey and one scoop of casein in the mornings, after my workout. Couple of months back I switched to two scoops of whey in the morning and two scoops of casein at night. Turns out that for some reason, my sleep quality improved with this combination.
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Old 1st December 2016, 00:19   #4427
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Sorry but I don't mean to drag it any further. Of course I meant steroids.

@Jaguar - He never said it and neither did I, you misconstrued it.
You didn't say it but he said that you said
And my question is still pending, why whey without steroids is waste of money?

Quote:
For the record, he said:- "Unless you are ready to do a cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes"

What he meant here was:- "Unless you are ready to do a steroid cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes"
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Old 1st December 2016, 01:09   #4428
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You didn't say it but he said that you said
And my question is still pending, why whey without steroids is waste of money?
Ok ok

I'm simply putting a disclaimer out there that don't buy Whey thinking you are going to look like Lazar or Jeff or Zyzz after a year (or even after 5-10 years) because that's not going to happen.

Everybody understands protein but nothing much beyond that, courtesy broscience.

Whey grows muscle. Really, how? Oh wait, whey contains protein and protein builds muscle. Are you sure? Why don't women consuming whey grow muscle? Why don't you grow Lats like Wings when you gulp 200 gm protein everyday and work Lats like crazy? Why do you live with skinny calves with Whey at your disposal?

Muscle building is a complex biological cell process at molecular level. People studying as well as teaching molecular biology are having a tough time explaining everything that happens in the name of muscle hypertrophy but somehow x amount of protein is all we need to grow muscle, insulin & testosterone be damned!

Well, go ahead by all means, its your money and your choices. I mean if one has enough money to spend on Whey and BCAAs they sure have enough money when it comes to dealing with organ issues (kidney/liver/heart), cancer, osteoporosis and what not.

A workout that you enjoy and a balanced diet with complex carbohydrates sitting at the very top would be far more beneficial in the long run but when everybody wants to either carry 2 TVs or look like Hrithik Roshan all I can say is, godspeed!
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Old 1st December 2016, 11:32   #4429
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Ok ok

I'm simply putting a disclaimer out there that don't buy Whey thinking you are going to look like Lazar or Jeff or Zyzz after a year (or even after 5-10 years) because that's not going to happen.

Everybody understands protein but nothing much beyond that, courtesy broscience.

Whey grows muscle. Really, how? Oh wait, whey contains protein and protein builds muscle. Are you sure? Why don't women consuming whey grow muscle? Why don't you grow Lats like Wings when you gulp 200 gm protein everyday and work Lats like crazy? Why do you live with skinny calves with Whey at your disposal?

Muscle building is a complex biological cell process at molecular level. People studying as well as teaching molecular biology are having a tough time explaining everything that happens in the name of muscle hypertrophy but somehow x amount of protein is all we need to grow muscle, insulin & testosterone be damned!

Well, go ahead by all means, its your money and your choices. I mean if one has enough money to spend on Whey and BCAAs they sure have enough money when it comes to dealing with organ issues (kidney/liver/heart), cancer, osteoporosis and what not.

A workout that you enjoy and a balanced diet with complex carbohydrates sitting at the very top would be far more beneficial in the long run but when everybody wants to either carry 2 TVs or look like Hrithik Roshan all I can say is, godspeed!
Agree with you on most points. The reason women don't build muscles is because of the fact that testosterone is the most important ingredient, which ensures muscle growth. Hence for people who want to gain muscle size, exercises of legs is most important since it leads to release of greater amount of testosterone.
Protein only helps to repair the damage to the muscle, that happens during the workout.

But where I disagree is that consumption of whey and BCAAs and like will lead to kidney, liver diseases and what not.

The main crux of this issue is that one should be aware of the amount of protein that the body can synthesise at a time and not overdose on protein, which would lead to kidney and liver issues.

Also the biggest myths is about creatine that it harms your kidneys, which is absolutely false. Creatine is something which is to be taken in cycles, since once you reach a particular dosage and stay on it for long, your body stops getting affected by it, just like our limit for drinking keeps increasing the more that we drink alcohol. So creatine usage generally has a loading cycle for 4 weeks with 20-15-10-5 mg doses and then no creatine for 4-6 weeks.

So we do not necessarily need to use whey protein in cycles, however we have to be sure that we are aware about the amount of protein that our body can synthesise with regards to our workout.

Last edited by akhil994 : 1st December 2016 at 11:34.
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Old 1st December 2016, 12:06   #4430
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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You aren't doing that already?!!

Sorry but I don't mean to drag it any further. Of course I meant steroids.

You misread my post, let me try again, what I meant was -

Eat Clen
Tren hard
Test your limits
DBOLish your goals
GHet huge
Keep husSLIN
Winny it all
Anavar give up


It was Dymatize Whey. No Pros no cons, except the money I spent, around 5-6k. No pics taken ever, the only pics I've taken is what I've posted, double chin remember??

See, I'm progressing with weights with regular homemade food and I'm totally content with it. My goal isn't bodybuilding but gaining strength. No offence, but most of the bodybuilders (here and in my local gyms) don't have a body worth drooling to begin with. The ones who do, are usually on juice. Of course there are people with 10-20 years of training backing them up without taking any "other" help but that's like a rare breed.

I ventured into this thinking I'll come out looking like Zyzz but we all know what happened to that guy. I argued enough in my head, here too, but realized that it wasn't going to happen.

Folks get beefy and enjoy carrying 2 TVs in each arm when walking, I'm not one of them. What I enjoyed initially was getting a little broad, shoulders and back. I was curling like crazy but whatever little I've gained on my arms is when I actually trained just 3 days in a week doing just big compound lifts. I don't want to be just another mediocre looking guy curling & lifting like crazy, 6 days a week, eating every 2-3 hours, carrying lunch boxes everywhere I go and worrying about losing muscle the moment I'm out of whey or if I don't hit the gym everyday.

I have complete respect for what people do and its totally their choice to replace every meal with whey or creatine but even if they do it for years at end and still don't have a body worth drooling, well, what can I say.

Ever since I started doing compound lifts I eat paranthas and chocolate or a chocolate shake everyday and life couldn't be any better at this stage. I'm not gaining any more weight just because I'm exhausted by the end of my workout but I've totally avoided it taking over the more important things of my life (including worrying about my double chin )

A lot of people just get lost over this bodybuilding obsession and if that's going to happen then the least they could do is come out looking like Zyzz.

EDIT: @Jaguar - He never said it and neither did I, you misconstrued it.
Dude, I thought you went tried a steroid cycle, that was my question to you. Even Complan has Whey in it today.

Pfffttt... And here I was thinking you tried something which was actually value for money, according to you.

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Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
You didn't say it but he said that you said
And my question is still pending, why whey without steroids is waste of money?
I like Whey and it works with our without steroids, period. Again, I am not the one saying what fine69 said. Plz go check posts again. Now going by what he's explained, it seems even he was just mouthing off some stuff, and didn't mean what he intended to mean.

I have been taking Whey since 1998-99 I think, started lifting in 95, then took a break for board exams, and been on since 97. It was a Wockhardt product, NutriProt; and long before mainstream Whey protein brands made their way into India. I would have cans of it and the other staple Proteinex (but found it crappy in comparison). My first big tub was Prolab N-Large2, first time-release protein was Designer Whey, and then came IsoPure tub.

Have never tried steroids, and today I juggle between Whey and Casein, maybe 2 scoops each per day, apart from regular food.
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Old 1st December 2016, 12:18   #4431
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

Here is a great explanation to what really made Amir Khan's transformation possible. The earlier video claims it was only exercise and diet, which we all know to be bunkum.

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Old 1st December 2016, 12:46   #4432
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Ever since I started doing compound lifts I eat paranthas and chocolate or a chocolate shake everyday and life couldn't be any better at this stage. I'm not gaining any more weight just because I'm exhausted by the end of my workout but I've totally avoided it taking over the more important things of my life (including worrying about my double chin )
So the Josh Machine has become a Hosh Man .

Reading you was a pleasure.

My query:
After fracturing my right forearm I am concentrating more on running and training with very low weights while trying out certain new exercises.

One movement where I have hit the wall is snatch. The complete flow (the fluidity) still eludes me. Getting down all the way is something my 45 year old bones (and muscles and flexibility) refuse to handle. As a compromise I sbegin with behind the neck press, extend my arms all the way to the top holding barbell without any weight and thereafter come down trying to squat.

Therein lies the problem.

Leaning forward at the bottom, hands and barbell ahead almost parallel to the face (not splayed backwards), left ankle twisting inwards, the knees caving in while going up, and the straining posterior shoulder muscles - at every movement the body creaks and groans imploring me to give up.

As I have squatted max upto 200 pounds, the problem, I think, is not strength. Perhaps it's a flexibility issue or may be weak stabilizer muscles - guide me how to improve it .

Besides, I am also looking for some non-traditional ideas that could be performed with extremely low weights, something on the lines of boxing jabs with ultra-light dumb-bells.
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Old 1st December 2016, 13:29   #4433
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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But where I disagree is that consumption of whey and BCAAs and like will lead to kidney, liver diseases and what not.
You can disagree. A lot of doctors and research papers don't and everyone has the right to do what they want with their body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
The main crux of this issue is that one should be aware of the amount of protein that the body can synthesise at a time and not overdose on protein, which would lead to kidney and liver issues.
How exactly do you determine your protein need? Please don't tell me its 2x your bodyweight

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
Also the biggest myths is about creatine that it harms your kidneys, which is absolutely false. Creatine is something which is to be taken in cycles, since once you reach a particular dosage and stay on it for long, your body stops getting affected by it, just like our limit for drinking keeps increasing the more that we drink alcohol. So creatine usage generally has a loading cycle for 4 weeks with 20-15-10-5 mg doses and then no creatine for 4-6 weeks.
Typical broscience! Why would a body high on ATP stop reacting to ATP? Will it stop making use of ATP even when there is continuous need. In fact as one progresses with weight the energy need only goes up. Please share the science behind this, not another blog post.

Let me give you a hint, ATP in the body is definitely not treated like alcohol.

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Dude, I thought you went tried a steroid cycle, that was my question to you. Even Complan has Whey in it today.

Pfffttt... And here I was thinking you tried something which was actually value for money, according to you.
I never said steroids were value for money. I just said that if one wants to look like Aamir or Hrithik then chugging whey just won't work.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Here is a great explanation to what really made Amir Khan's transformation possible. The earlier video claims it was only exercise and diet, which we all know to be bunkum.
We don't need another guy on video telling us what really goes on, I think everyone knows already. Those who don't, well let the whey retailer also earn a living.

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Originally Posted by Piyadassi View Post
So the Josh Machine has become a Hosh Man
Haha! Well, better late than never!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyadassi View Post
As a compromise I sbegin with behind the neck press, extend my arms all the way to the top holding barbell without any weight and thereafter come down trying to squat....

Besides, I am also looking for some non-traditional ideas that could be performed with extremely low weights, something on the lines of boxing jabs with ultra-light dumb-bells.
I didn't follow. You said coming down is a problem but you start with the bar on a power/squat rack I believe. Please elaborate.

And did you start with the regular overhead press already. How do you feel doing that?

I personally wouldn't recommend anything with free weights unless you gain & demonstrate regained strength through resistance band training. What's your doctor's opinion on the bone that healed?

There are ample light workouts on the line of boxing jabs but you need resistance on your way to healing completely instead of free weights.
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Old 1st December 2016, 13:48   #4434
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Default Re: Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements

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We don't need another guy on video telling us what really goes on, I think everyone knows already. Those who don't, well let the whey retailer also earn a living.
Everyone doesn't know, that is the problem. Most people will trust Amir Khan that he did it the natural way, because he commands a certain credibility. Now, let's not go OT about his credibility, that seriously breaks the forum rules.

We needed a clear explanation by an expert bodybuilder and fitness coach, articulating in easily understandable words. That is why this video is very useful.
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Old 1st December 2016, 14:03   #4435
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I didn't follow. You said coming down is a problem but you start with the bar on a power/squat rack I believe. Please elaborate..
Name:  TheSnatchFeature.jpg
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Typical Snatch begins from left to right as above. However, since I find it a very difficult movement to master, I start from right to left. You can call it 'squat with raised hands.' No need of any rack. Using barbell with no weights.

Yes, I do have doctor's permission, but intend to be very slow with increasing weights till about the end of February, when I am hoping to participate in a 10 km and a half marathon, after which, may be max out on Max OT .
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Old 1st December 2016, 14:52   #4436
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So the Josh Machine has become a Hosh Man .
My query:
After fracturing my right forearm I am concentrating more on running and training with very low weights while trying out certain new exercises.
Why are you concentrating more on running? After musculoskeletal disuse the reformed joint and the surrounding muscles are quite weak, so getting back the strength should be a priority. Training with weights albeit with comfortable progression is the best way to regain the lost strength and return the joint to previous capability.


Quote:
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One movement where I have hit the wall is snatch. The complete flow (the fluidity) still eludes me. Getting down all the way is something my 45 year old bones (and muscles and flexibility) refuse to handle. As a compromise I begin with behind the neck press, extend my arms all the way to the top holding barbell without any weight and thereafter come down trying to squat.

To learn a complicated movement like the snatch requires the right guidance and hours of training. As with any multi form movement, like a complicated dance move, you break up the movement into simpler drills, practice those, and then stitch them together. I would suggest you find a good trainer who is fluid in teaching this movement.

What you are doing here is an overhead squat. That in itself is a skilled movement and does help with the snatch, but only with the last and the simplest part of the snatch, which is getting up after the barbell is overhead with locked arms. The meat of weightlifting movements is actually lifting the bar off the ground to its rack position (while getting under the bar as quickly and efficiently as possible), which in the case of the snatch is the bar over your head with arms locked in an overhead squat position.

Also, I have to ask, why the snatch?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyadassi View Post
Leaning forward at the bottom, hands and barbell ahead almost parallel to the face (not splayed backwards), left ankle twisting inwards, the knees caving in while going up, and the straining posterior shoulder muscles - at every movement the body creaks and groans imploring me to give up.
Any movement with weights is based on balance, which is a combination of centre of gravity and base of support. The arms with the barbell need to be within the base of support which is formed by your feet on the floor. Too far forward, and you topple forward specially since the barbell so far above your head with arms at full lockout carries a lot of rotational torque. So, in a sense, they need to be "splayed backwards", but just the right amount. This is going to test your shoulder's range of motion and stability.

Left ankle twisting inwards and knees caving in can possibly be due to two reasons. One, and more likely, the gluteal muscles aren't strong enough in that position to stabilise joint and perform extension (getting up) at the same time. Two, it can be just that your adductors aren't extensible (stretchable) to that range of motion.
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Old 1st December 2016, 15:13   #4437
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Everyone doesn't know, that is the problem. Most people will trust Amir Khan that he did it the natural way, because he commands a certain credibility. Now, let's not go OT about his credibility, that seriously breaks the forum rules.
I honestly have more respect for Schwarzenegger, Yates or Coleman unlike bollywood actors who are misguiding people not just by hiding things but in fact even promoting harmful stuff or supporting a company making false claims. At least these guys were man enough to admit what they did! Sorry for my off-topic rant.

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Yes, I do have doctor's permission, but intend to be very slow with increasing weights till about the end of February, when I am hoping to participate in a 10 km and a half marathon, after which, may be max out on Max OT .
Why would you start with Snatch when you're recovering. Jerky movements should be a strict no-no right now. In your case, how exactly would you benefit when you start up top with just a barbell. Why not just overhead press & deadlift with progression instead of Snatch.

Powerlifting without a solid body frame can injure us badly but a teenager can take that risk simply because skeletal muscles are going to react drastically different for them. Progress with resistance bands, avoid directly jumping to exercises that require continuous elbow extension and instead something that involves elbow flexion first.

I've always started with resistance bands (I have the Bodylastics set) for the initial few weeks after an injury and I've had a very good experience this way. I've seen some of the best doctors in Delhi and everybody has advised resistance bands for recovery each time.
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Old 1st December 2016, 15:26   #4438
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I started working out again after a gap of 17 days. Was out on a trip, ended up drinking lots of alcohol, and screwed up my meals - long periods of starvation, then gorging. Strength, endurance and metabolism have gone for a toss. Discipline and consistency are so important!

Will take 3-4 weeks to get back to previous levels of strength and fitness. Need to take things slowly at 40+.
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Old 1st December 2016, 15:34   #4439
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Why would you start with Snatch when you're recovering. Jerky movements should be a strict no-no right now.
In fact, what I am talking about is not a snatch at all. It, I would call, as my first hesitant step that will lead me towards snatch, who knows may be in 3-6-12 months or not at all. I agree that it is a completed movement that demands strength and flexibility.

I am not indulging in some jerky and powerlifting movement.

At this stage, you can even call it Overhead Squat with just a barbell and no added weights. Even, when I tried the exercise with just the bodyweight and the arms raised, I could find my form compromised - leaning torso, arms forward, pressure on the ankle, knees digging in - it looked gross, bereft of aestheticism.

At this stage, since I am recovering I am hardly lifting any weight, instead, I am attempting to master the form.

My question is, where am I lacking when 'normal' squat comes naturally?
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Old 1st December 2016, 16:05   #4440
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My question is, where am I lacking when 'normal' squat comes naturally?
You've just added a few joints to the normal squat so a comparison might not be apt.

Overhead squat doesn't look natural or feel natural at all. You have elbows up when doing a normal squat and the weight on the bar doesn't bother until you actually squat. There's pressure at the wrist joint and while it isn't too uncomfortable, its not comfortable either.

In the overhead squat, even the bar can start bothering after a few seconds simply because the core & shoulder engagement starts up top at a much higher intensity than in a normal squat.

I think you posted your pic a while back and it looks like a weak core shouldn't be a problem for you with an empty barbell overhead squat, but, it could very well be.

From what you describe, its poor form but the case is usually when there's too much weight up top or a weak core. Your core is the biggest link here but even with a strong core, you are bound to lean forward to some extent. Arms coming forward, how's the shoulder mobility? Were you able to snatch perfectly before the injury? How much weight was it then?

Can you record yourself to check the bar trajectory and other things? I mean basic stuff, like the bar behind ears, shoulders shrugged, you're pushing the bar up instead of supporting it, sticking your butt out etc., basically all the pet peeves, important nonetheless.

Can you try the below routine with a towel/resistance band and share observations if possible. If weight isn't a problem then you would quite possibly face the same issue even with a tower/band.

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