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Old 1st March 2009, 13:33   #916
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
And in any case, aren't you just starting out? What kind of weights are you lifting? Do you even need supplements at this stage?
Yes I am completing 45 days in a regular workout and diet plan. But I used to do aerogym and normal gym earlier although there was a gap of 8 months from the last one to the present. Weights right now remain 35 to 50 in most items, 20 reps and 3 sets. Its cardio and weight training on alternate days.

Although supplement may not be required at this stage, I feel the need of extra energy by half-time itself, specially the cardio day I almost die out of energy in 20 mts. So, if I dont take supplements, I may not reach my goal as planned and it might be too straining for the body.

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You can get the same Optimum 100% whey for 3700/- from this website. Weight Loss Products and Bodybuilding Supplements-WHEY Protein In India
Thats a good site, I didnt know about it earlier, otherwise I would have ordered things from them. Anyway, I like to take chances and try different things, so its an experience and learning. I have no complaints. I will update once I receive my stuff. Now its expected in 3 days maximum, so good or bad, I have no choice !
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Old 1st March 2009, 14:00   #917
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You can get the same Optimum 100% whey for 3700/- from this website. Weight Loss Products and Bodybuilding Supplements-WHEY Protein In India
This website doesn't quote the nutritional information for any product! It just lists the product and in some cases, the sales pitch! It's a good avenue for people who already know what they want. If not, it's not at all informative.
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Old 1st March 2009, 16:48   #918
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Although supplement may not be required at this stage, I feel the need of extra energy by half-time itself, specially the cardio day I almost die out of energy in 20 mts. So, if I dont take supplements, I may not reach my goal as planned and it might be too straining for the body.
I'm curious to know how protein or creatine supplements help you on your cardio day... If you're out of energy, fix your diet or increase your endurance levels. Throwing money at the problem won't fix it.

And as for the straining part, the human body, however unfit, can take a lot more than 20 minutes of cardio workouts. Perhaps the limitations are in your head and not in your body. If you've resigned yourself to the fact that you need supplements, then you'll do worse without them. A fit body is not a goal, it's a journey. How long will you keep using these supplements?
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Old 1st March 2009, 19:16   #919
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I am not sure where all this supplements talk is going - I have been into working out since I was 17 (11+ yrs I guess). Although, there maybe more experienced people here, my advise is purely from my experience. In my first 5 years, I have gone from a 50kg thin boy to 65kgs and muscular, purely on natural substances. No supplements, just work outs and healthy nutritious foods and protein milk shakes (which i made with natural stuff not protein powders) and eggs/meats/cottage_cheese and all the things that gave me the energy or nutrition I ever needed. Only when I was seriously considering competing did I get into supplements (whey and other protein supplements) for a period of a year. I would say typically when you peak and don't see any results with just workouts and natural foods, should you move to supplements to change the outcome of your workouts.
And yes supplements did help me get to my goals of 74 kilos with 9% body fat, but I would say it was very intense workouts that contributed majorly to my goals. I was on supplements for barely a year or 2 and then work made me more busier and workouts got lower intensity.
Now after all these years, I workout 2-3 times a week and I would say the muscle that has developed over the years is entirely from intense workouts and it stays in tone now even with low intensity less frequent workouts. If i would have not taken supplements ever, i would still be in the shape I am today (72 kilos and 12% body fat).
I would strongly suggest there is no need for supplements, unless one is working out for bodybuilding competitions and has already reached his/her peak condition and needs just that little bit more.
I may sound harsh, but clearly there is enough in natural foods out there to give you desired energy and muscle building nutrients. Yes even if you are a veggie, a multi-vitamin is the most you need
No offense to anyone out here, this is just my 2 paisa on the whole supplements brouhaha going on here

Last edited by jassi : 1st March 2009 at 19:26.
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Old 1st March 2009, 21:48   #920
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Thanks everyone for the opinions. I take everything positively, not finding a bit of guilt feel of what I did, which will be proved in the due time. I am a product of 1972 and need a little bit boosting with aritifical or superficial things whatever you call it, but its all just a start up process while I am burning some excess fat same time. As the saying goes, "End justifies the means", and I believe in it.

What I did is not going to be a habit or routine by any chance. Who wants to spent Rs.6000 every 40/50 days ? Its not economical and I am not preparing for any Mr.India contest, I am too old for that. So, I will stick to the maximum natural stuff available in the house to its best. Anyway my diet chart will change in 2 weeks, my dietician will guide me to the best possible things to reach my goal. Whey was an option for me in the first phase although I waited and tested first 45 days without that.

I consume 2 eggs a day, 300ml soy milk (lactose intolerant), wheat bread, fruits, oats, cashews, badam, possibly fish or meat alternate days. Main purpose is splitting the 3 major meals into 6 light meals. I already find lot of improvement that is helping my work (10 hours online !), overall freshness, active body and other related stuff as a result of the routine. Way to go. I will update changes and improvements.

Thanks to all again ! Suggestions and comments are always taken positively, you can shoot directly, you wont find an ego responding back for sure !
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Old 1st March 2009, 22:55   #921
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Originally Posted by shajufx View Post

I consume 2 eggs a day, 300ml soy milk (lactose intolerant), wheat bread, fruits, oats, cashews, badam, possibly fish or meat alternate days. Main purpose is splitting the 3 major meals into 6 light meals. I already find lot of improvement that is helping my work (10 hours online !), overall freshness, active body and other related stuff as a result of the routine. Way to go. I will update changes and improvements.

Thanks to all again ! Suggestions and comments are always taken positively, you can shoot directly, you wont find an ego responding back for sure !
Shaju - i am a product of 1980 but its always good to see someone take others' opinions positively. Like you, I too am always learning and health is a constant journey. You have a good diet as of now and if things are going well, keep going on this path. Everyone has a different body which reacts differently to meals and workouts. If exercise and diet regimen works you, stay on that path and change it up every now and then to keep things interesting. Do stick to natural foods and an occassional month or 2 on supplements will be fine (just don't become a regular with supplements, unless you are going pro ) Also do trust your gym intructor and dietician, but also make sure you do some of your own research - they aren't always right and neither are we, as no one completely understands you but you yourself!!
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Old 2nd March 2009, 00:15   #922
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Originally Posted by jassi View Post
Yes even if you are a veggie, a multi-vitamin is the most you need
No offense to anyone out here, this is just my 2 paisa on the whole supplements brouhaha going on here
There is no supplement brouhaha going on. A lot of important and specific information has been freely given about very specific supplements.
If, how and when one should take this advice or even any sort of supplements is entirely upto the person interested.

Very specific queries have been answered.

A multi-vitamin is the LAST thing a veggie needs. He can get most vitamins adequately from his normal diet. What a veggie MOST needs is quality protein, which he will hardly get unless he eats a whole variety of foods at EVERY meal. This is where supplements can truly help, irrespective of his fitness goals. Whey is vegetarian, so that shouldn't be an issue either.

Apart from building muscle, Whey has been proven to strengthen the immune system and as of today even AIDS patients are given Whey and have been showing improvement!
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Old 2nd March 2009, 00:44   #923
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
I'm curious to know how protein or creatine supplements help you on your cardio day... If you're out of energy, fix your diet or increase your endurance levels. Throwing money at the problem won't fix it.

And as for the straining part, the human body, however unfit, can take a lot more than 20 minutes of cardio workouts. Perhaps the limitations are in your head and not in your body. If you've resigned yourself to the fact that you need supplements, then you'll do worse without them. A fit body is not a goal, it's a journey. How long will you keep using these supplements?
Truer words have not been spoken.

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Originally Posted by jassi View Post
I am not sure where all this supplements talk is going - I have been into working out since I was 17 (11+ yrs I guess). Although, there maybe more experienced people here, my advise is purely from my experience. In my first 5 years, I have gone from a 50kg thin boy to 65kgs and muscular, purely on natural substances. No supplements, just work outs and healthy nutritious foods and protein milk shakes (which i made with natural stuff not protein powders) and eggs/meats/cottage_cheese and all the things that gave me the energy or nutrition I ever needed. Only when I was seriously considering competing did I get into supplements (whey and other protein supplements) for a period of a year. I would say typically when you peak and don't see any results with just workouts and natural foods, should you move to supplements to change the outcome of your workouts.
And yes supplements did help me get to my goals of 74 kilos with 9% body fat, but I would say it was very intense workouts that contributed majorly to my goals. I was on supplements for barely a year or 2 and then work made me more busier and workouts got lower intensity.
Now after all these years, I workout 2-3 times a week and I would say the muscle that has developed over the years is entirely from intense workouts and it stays in tone now even with low intensity less frequent workouts. If i would have not taken supplements ever, i would still be in the shape I am today (72 kilos and 12% body fat).
I would strongly suggest there is no need for supplements, unless one is working out for bodybuilding competitions and has already reached his/her peak condition and needs just that little bit more.
I may sound harsh, but clearly there is enough in natural foods out there to give you desired energy and muscle building nutrients. Yes even if you are a veggie, a multi-vitamin is the most you need
No offense to anyone out here, this is just my 2 paisa on the whole supplements brouhaha going on here
I've come across such attitudes towards steroids; very refreshing to see the "natural" bar being raised yet again. Nice!



Not digressing from the brauhaha... anyone tried "Nectar" from Syntrax?
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Old 2nd March 2009, 15:20   #924
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Not digressing from the brauhaha... anyone tried "Nectar" from Syntrax?
I haven't tried Nectar, but I've tried two very similar products:

Ultimate Nutrition - IsoCool - Peach Parfait flavor (or something like that)
Interactive Nutrition - IsoWhey Breezer - Pineapple

While both these products were nutritionally excellent (the breezer slightly better as it had neither aspartame nor acesulfame K), I wasn't really taken up by the taste. It was rather weird. The best I can describe it is that it tasted like some fruit juice with a little milk added to it; neither here nor there.
I honestly prefer the regular milkshake taste to something like this. The reasons I picked these up were curiosity to try something new and because no other Whey Isolate was available.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 16:19   #925
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Originally Posted by vikram18 View Post
There is no supplement brouhaha going on. A lot of important and specific information has been freely given about very specific supplements.
If, how and when one should take this advice or even any sort of supplements is entirely upto the person interested.

Very specific queries have been answered.

A multi-vitamin is the LAST thing a veggie needs. He can get most vitamins adequately from his normal diet. What a veggie MOST needs is quality protein, which he will hardly get unless he eats a whole variety of foods at EVERY meal. This is where supplements can truly help, irrespective of his fitness goals. Whey is vegetarian, so that shouldn't be an issue either.

Apart from building muscle, Whey has been proven to strengthen the immune system and as of today even AIDS patients are given Whey and have been showing improvement!
Vikram - I agree the information here is priceless and a lot of queries have been answered - however i was concerned that a lot of beginners were looking away from natural sources by reading the good things about supplements here, irrespective of whether they are veg or nonveg.
I have been a veg for months at times and still managed to get my proteins from cottage cheese, soya products, nuts and pulses and legumes.
For an average vegetarian (someone not into gymming and nutrition) and especially someone who does not drink a lot of milk, vitamin b12 deficiency exists. B12 is mostly found in meats, eggs and milk products. However the average veggie gym enthusiast drinks plenty of milk and may get the needed b12. This is the point i was referring to, not all vitamins in general. Also certain minerals which are missing in a veggie diet can be obtained from nuts and seeds.
If you are vegan (i.e. no milk no meats) or a lactose intolerant veggie, then you need a b12 supplement. Fortified cereals can help too, but then hope its the non-sugary types.
Hope that makes sense - i am open to learning if I am wrong though
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Old 2nd March 2009, 16:45   #926
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Jassi - There isn't much that you, I or anyone for that matter can do about someone looking for a quick fix method. I am and have always been in agreement of your opinion that supplements should be used, if necessary, OVER AND ABOVE a good diet. I have always advocated the same, while replying to every specific query.

Sadly, a lot of people lack the necessary discipline, knowledge or at times even the resources (esp. If you're living alone, away from home and have zero culinary skills) to maintain a balanced diet. In certain such cases, supplements do help.

I completely agree with you regarding the vitamin B12. The reason that I did not specifically talk about it is that it is needed in very low quantities on a daily basis. Since we are talking about it, vegetarians get practically none from their diet as even boiling milk destroys a lot of B12.

When B12 deficiency occurs, it is more commonly linked to a failure to effectively absorb B12 from the intestine rather than a dietary deficiency. Absorption of B12 requires the secretion from the cells lining the stomach of a glycoprotein, known as intrinsic factor. The B12-intrinsic factor complex is then absorbed in the ileum (part of the small intestine) in the presence of calcium. Certain people are unable to produce intrinsic factor and the subsequent pernicious anaemia is treated with injections of B12.

Vitamin B12 can be stored in small amounts by the body. Total body store is 2-5mg in adults. Around 80% of this is stored in the liver.

Vitamin B12 is excreted in the bile and is effectively reabsorbed. This is known as enterohepatic circulation. The amount of B12 excreted in the bile can vary from 1 to 10ug (micrograms) a day. People on diets low in B12, including vegans and some vegetarians, may be obtaining more B12 from reabsorption than from dietary sources. Reabsorption is the reason it can take over 20 years for deficiency disease to develop in people changing to diets absent in B12. In comparison, if B12 deficiency is due to a failure in absorption it can take only 3 years for deficiency disease to occur.

Source: The Vegetarian Society - B12 Information Sheet
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Old 2nd March 2009, 16:57   #927
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Vikram, I am preparing myself for a custom-import 'shocker' which might give my heart another hard blow and that could also make me leave the overseas buying forever ! If I have to pay, that will be a hard lesson learned, just because I went with my heart than my brains while deciding. To pacify myself, let me post this picture here. Here onwards, I will ask the gurus before doing anything
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Old 2nd March 2009, 17:51   #928
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Shaju - Haha. Do you really want to look like this chemically mutated monster?
I really hope you don't have any shocks with your imports. Just a word of warning though. Do be careful with your use of creatine. make sure you up your water intake considerably while taking creatine.
Even though i don't think you need to start with creatine, do remember this, creatine works the best the first time, so do make a sensible choice as to when to start.
If you do decide to start, load creatine for 4 - 5 days with 20gms per day and then take 5gms everyday. Do not premix and keep either creatine or your protein shakes. Mix water just before consuming.
Your preworkout drink contains adequate delivery ingredients, but otherwise creatine shuld be mixed with something like Glucon-D for faster and more effective delivery. Use regular Glucon D, not the orange flavor (citric acid is not good paired with creatine, so avoid orange, lime, etc.)
If I remember correctly, I believe you have some free creatine that you got with your "ayurvedic" whey
Use that for loading. Take 5 gms of that with dextrose 3 times a day (1 of this should be post workout) and use 1 serving of Expold pre-workout.
After 4 days of loading, use only the Explod.
To see noticeable gains, you'll really have to push yourself wrt weights in the gym while using creatine. and i cannot stress this enough ... DRINK LOTS OF WATER
I was not aware that you're lactose intolerant. Luckily for you, ON 100% whey claims to have very low lactose so I hope you don't have digestion problems. Next time you decide to buy Whey, do search SPECIFICALLY for zero-lactose Whey. I currently have Cytosport's Evopro (use it at bedtime), which is a blend of Whey and Micellar Casein and is completely lactose free.
All the best with your training.
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Old 4th March 2009, 19:13   #929
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Junk the "ayurvedic creatine". worth avoiding the medical expenses. [come to think of it, I wouldn't want sub-standard meds in my cupboard.]

I used to load CMono with bananas and Milk. Learnt it from an ex-Mr.Asia. its supposed to be a secret >)).
and dont need more than 3x3g CM while loading, for 3 days, and 21 days of 3g maintenance. Break for a month and resume (if necessary). Worked like a charm for me.

Please consume preWO. Creatine--> ATP---> Energy (Mitochondrial)---> Better workout---> More muscle dhishum dhishum---> look better in two days.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

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Old 5th March 2009, 16:32   #930
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I really hope you don't have any shocks with your imports. Just a word of warning though.
Yes I got the biggest shock of my life when the delivery happend today, though I was not at home. My mom took the pack from fedex. She called me to say "there is a courier for you, they are asking Rs.2825/- for that". Defenitely she thought thats the value of the pack, another case of VPP. Anyway, I had no choice, having spent Rs.7000/- for a US$87 value products, I could not even in my wildest dreams reject the pack and ignore the cost. So, a happy shopping experience has taken away a lump of meat/muscle from my bum and it will remain like that until I finish another 3 kgs of whey !

Whole point of saving some bucks on the deal ended in spenting excess ! Overall the cost was ok until the custom duty came into picture. So the Rs.2825 paid is the extra as I understand from my calculation.

I am attaching the shipment history here, happy that I am having something which travelled around the world !
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