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Old 14th March 2009, 08:14   #976
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Ah a thread on bodybuilding.Very Nice.Well i ve been doing this for quite some time now.8 years to be precise.Althought now no more into heavy weights.Was 103 kgs of solid muscle at peak(hence was given the the name bigron..hehe).Couple of things i would like to add.
1.You cannot gain only muscle mass naturally.You will definately gain fat also if you plan to gain weight through natural diet.( eggs,chicken,fish,dal etc).
2.You need 1 gram of protein per body weight in pound every day if you want to grow atleast.( body weight 200 pounds = 200 grams of protein everyday)
3.Fit in some cardio twice or thrice a week to keep the body fat in check and improve stamina.
4.To gain weight and strenght lift maximum weights gradually and reduce repetitions.
5.Stick to basic exercises.No need to do fancy exercises.Just play around with the routine and repetations once the body stops responding to the same set of exercises.
6. Always warm up.Injuries are painfull and take very long to heal.Meet a true bodybuilder and he ll tell you the same.
7.Dont push yourself beyond limits.Its a long term game.Just do your thing and enjoy your work outs.And yess there is something you call OVERTRAINING.Dont do it.You ll end up injuring your self and loosing interest in bodybuilding.
8.Keep your diet as natural as possible.A whey protein is okay but cycle it.You dont need the extra aminos and glutamins an all until n unless u want to compete .A good all round whey protein should do the trick.

Well these are the basics to keep in mind.They are more things .Will keep adding them with time.

Last edited by bigron : 14th March 2009 at 08:21.
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Old 14th March 2009, 10:42   #977
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At godog, yes I used On's PGC, the scoop is the bigger one, not the usual small one so it makes for a nice mini-meal. Protein+ multi vitamin/mineral+calories to gain the weight. I tried it and loved it. I guess those people who left it at the gym were silly since they thought eating calories would make them fat. In fact you gain LEAN MASS and not fat, well if you sit at home and drink it daily then you are bound to become fat. I did a 5 day split and drank one in the morning(early breakfast) and one after workout(around 7-8pm).

At the moment I use ON's 100% gold standard whey, why because after everyworkout it gives me,
-24g protein, WHEY ISOLATES, most expensive and fast acting type of protein
-5.5g BCAA
-4G Glutamine
^ All that in one scoop, I take 2 scoops

Also I use ON's creatine monohydrate, 5g after every workout. So my after workout recovery is all set and I don't spend a lot.

700rs for the creatine that lasts months
3480 for ~80 servings of the protein/BCAA/glutamine

think about it this way, if you take 2 scoops everyday(after your workout), that is like 1800 rupees per month only for ALL those important and safe things.

Of course you can take more scoops to get a good amount of protein daily, take 1 scoop if the morning with breakfast, take 2 after workout.
3 scoops a day = less than 3500 per month...surely you can manage that much
ALSO PLEASE FOR GODS SAKE DON'T FORGET TO TAKE YOUR MULTIVITAMIN AND MULTIMINERAL DAILY.
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Old 14th March 2009, 14:07   #978
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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post

At the moment I use ON's 100% gold standard whey, why because after everyworkout it gives me,
-24g protein, WHEY ISOLATES, most expensive and fast acting type of protein
-5.5g BCAA
-4G Glutamine
^ All that in one scoop, I take 2 scoops
24 gms of protein per scoop is less than 80% protein. ON doesn't say HOW MUCH of it is Whey Isolate (don't fall for these marketing gimmicks); it just says MORE Isolate than before, which could be anything at all.
There are FAR better protein supplements available and IMHO, ON is the WORST tasting whey ever.
Just putting up labels like 100% Gold Standard doesn't make this a great product!
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Old 14th March 2009, 14:47   #979
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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
At godog, yes I used On's PGC, the scoop is the bigger one, not the usual small one so it makes for a nice mini-meal. Protein+ multi vitamin/mineral+calories to gain the weight. I tried it and loved it. I guess those people who left it at the gym were silly since they thought eating calories would make them fat. In fact you gain LEAN MASS and not fat, well if you sit at home and drink it daily then you are bound to become fat.

At the moment I use ON's 100% gold standard whey, why because after everyworkout it gives me,
-24g protein, WHEY ISOLATES, most expensive and fast acting type of protein
-5.5g BCAA
-4G Glutamine
^ All that in one scoop, I take 2 scoops

Also I use ON's creatine monohydrate, 5g after every workout. So my after workout recovery is all set and I don't spend a lot.

700rs for the creatine that lasts months

Of course you can take more scoops to get a good amount of protein daily, take 1 scoop if the morning with breakfast, take 2 after workout.
3 scoops a day = less than 3500 per month...surely you can manage that much
Eating calories will make you fat, especially when they come from a Carbohydrate source. This is why I eat more proteins than anything else. If it is used for fuel in the body, great, if not, it adds up to muscle. Carbs, on the other hand, will turn into fat asap if not metabolised. No?
(And those people want to get fat. They didn't.)

I see no point in consuming CMono after your workout. Could you elaborate on this please?

See my last post on marketing hype.

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Originally Posted by vikram18 View Post
24 gms of protein per scoop is less than 80% protein. ON doesn't say HOW MUCH of it is Whey Isolate (don't fall for these marketing gimmicks); it just says MORE Isolate than before, which could be anything at all.
There are FAR better protein supplements available and IMHO, ON is the WORST tasting whey ever.
Just putting up labels like 100% Gold Standard doesn't make this a great product!
1. Going by the way my innards react to it, I'd say not much .
2. You can say that again. I've tried local (Delhi) products that tasted far better.
3. Do they say Who gave them the "Gold Medal"? and for what?or what is the "Gold Standard" benchmarked against?
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Old 14th March 2009, 15:35   #980
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No company is ever going to say "how much" of something they put into the compound. Of course this contains regular whey, but there is fast acting isolates which you need just after the workout.

There are no "FAR" better protein powders that provide the same amount of protein per scoop along with BCAA's, isolates and Glutamine for the same price range available in India.

The reason it is a great product is that fact that it has Protein and supplement of the year, for 4 consecutive years.

So would you say because ON doesn't taste good, you would spend a fortune on Syntha-6 just because it tastes better? and doesn't have glutamine/bcaa/isolates
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Old 14th March 2009, 17:00   #981
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So would you say because ON doesn't taste good, you would spend a fortune on Syntha-6 just because it tastes better? and doesn't have glutamine/bcaa/isolates
Let me get some of your concepts clear

1. Glutamine is a non-essential amino acid.

2. BCAAs or Branched Chain Amino Acids are Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine.
They are present in EVERY complete protein, including EVERY whey supplement.

3. Do take the time to look up Whey Isolate powders (Isoflex, for one). It is 90% protein per serving of 97% pure WHEY ISOLATE and yes it does contain your precious BCAAs. It tastes FAR better than ANY ON product and is a FAR superior fast acting Whey!

4. Lots of Whey Isolates are available in India; you just need to know where to look (I'm sure you'll run into Isopure at a lot of places)

As far as expense goes, if you're spending on supplements, you might as well get the best. If you calculate bang for buck, the better ones are not that expensive. If you just want WPC, why not buy the cheapest WPC available. You also get glutamine, which at say a 5g serving a day, will last MONTHS, like your creatine.

Regarding Syntha 6, It is a complex blend of WPC, WHEY ISOLATES (Yeah! Read the label, they're there), casein and egg albumen. It is not meant to be a fast acting protein supplement, but rather a night time shake, which will ensure you have some protein throughout your longest fasting period to aid muscle recovery. I would prefer this to ON anyway, no matter what the taste! Lo and behold! Syntha 6 also has ISOLATE, BCAAs and GLUTAMINE PEPTIDES!

Here: BSN Online - Products - Syntha-6

If you want to attempt wit or sarcasm, at least ensure you know enough about the products involved . All that you've managed by your outburst is the illumination of your ignorance!

Another bit of info:

Glutamine is mainly used during a cutting cycle in order to preserve muscle mass while losing fat, it's not necessary while bulking or building muscle.
A lot of compounds (glutamine, taurine, Omega-9), *might* be of help. There are no independent, intensive studies done proving their efficacy.

Consider yourself educated.

Grow in peace.

Last edited by vikram18 : 14th March 2009 at 17:19.
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Old 14th March 2009, 17:01   #982
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Don't take me wrong Gaganji. Whatever works for you. Different strokes....

PS: There ARE better PPs with all the shebang, in similar price-bands, available in India. MUCH better.

PPS: I lost interest in awards when "No country for old men" and "there will be blood" won Oscars. The only awards i look for are the Annual Godog Awards. thats some nice wiz.

PPPS: Syntha-6 also goes down well. Come to think of it, you get what you pay for. But to each their own. (Nothing personal, btw)(and I wouldn't buy Syntha-6 myself, for other reasons).
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Old 14th March 2009, 22:14   #983
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Sigh, no point in personal attacks.

About Cmono, it replenishes ATP, increases protein synthesis, increases strength and helps in recovery.
It "pushes" water into your muscles which is why you need to have ~4L water a day.

About glutamine, your glutamine stores are depleted after every workout,which is why it needs to be supplemented. Unless you come to the gym and fool around and not have an intense workout, in which case its better not to even come. Various cells of the immune system depend on it for the primary fuel. Helps to maintain a positive nitrogen balance.
It drives protein into muscles. It is necessary during periods of stress such as intense weight training which induces a catabolic state which has been shown to decrease glutamine levels by 50%. It decreases protein degradation, resulting in bigger, stronger muscle cells.

I have no idea where you are getting your conclusions, you say it is a "non essential" amino acid, the only reason it is listed as non essential is because your body does not produce it. So you have to consume it. That doesn't mean your body produces enough of it, if you don't workout then its fine but if you do, then it is depleted from the body and you need to get the levels back up again.

Now BCAA's, they help in protein synthesis, facilitate the release of hormones such as growth hormone, and insulin, and help maintain a favorable testosterone to cortisol.

Both of these are crucial for muscle growth.

Quote:
If you want to attempt wit or sarcasm, at least ensure you know enough about the products involved . All that you've managed by your outburst is the illumination of your ignorance!
Some might say the same about you.
No need for personal attacks.

Now I won't bother discussing this further.
You can go wonder why the world uses these products.
You can be happy with what you use, im sure you are making wonderful gains.

Mods - He made the personal attacks first so don't delete the post. I won't discuss this issue any further.
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Old 15th March 2009, 02:35   #984
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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
Sigh, no point in personal attacks.

About Cmono, it replenishes ATP, increases protein synthesis, increases strength and helps in recovery.
It "pushes" water into your muscles which is why you need to have ~4L water a day.

'twas fine till "it replenishes ATP" but you lost the plot after that. So whats your reason for taking it POST workout, again??-godog

About glutamine, your glutamine stores are depleted after every workout,which is why it needs to be supplemented. Unless you come to the gym and fool around and not have an intense workout, in which case its better not to even come.We can do without the insinuation, please.-godog
Various cells of the immune system depend on it for the primary fuel. Helps to maintain a positive nitrogen balance.
It drives protein into muscles. It is necessary during periods of stress such as intense weight training which induces a catabolic state which has been shown to decrease glutamine levels by 50%. It decreases protein degradation, resulting in bigger, stronger muscle cells.

I have no idea where you are getting your conclusions, you say it is a "non essential" amino acid, the only reason it is listed as non essential is because your body does not produce it. So you have to consume it. That doesn't mean your body produces enough of it, if you don't workout then its fine but if you do, then it is depleted from the body and you need to get the levels back up again.

Non essential= Body DOES produce the darned thing so you dont need to take it externally. -godog

Now BCAA's, they help in protein synthesis, facilitate the release of hormones such as growth hormone, and insulin, and help maintain a favorable testosterone to cortisol. umm... Ratio?
You've not done your research from a NCERT textbook, have you?
Yes, glutamine does all that. Glutamine supplementation doesn't. Read up. Less than 1% of orally ingested Glutamine will go past the intestines.

On BCAAs, get your facts on Amino Acids. Break down any protein and you get an Amino Acid, in short. Branched Chain Aminos are just the "better" ones. This is as lay-man language as it gets.
You must be right. They do alot. but does ingesting BCAAs do the same? Nevermind.

Lets workout our fingers and brains less and train our guns and buns instead. To each their own.

You beat me to it, Vikram18. But I personally don't like the flavour of that last post.
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Old 15th March 2009, 05:44   #985
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Guys please don't leave because of some disagreements. This discussion has been very informative for us less educated souls. It is okay to use different products and have different opinion about certain products.

For most people the brand of Whey protein they consume is not the limiting factor in their fitness anyway, right?
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Old 15th March 2009, 10:20   #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyperSyn
For most people the brand of Whey protein they consume is not the limiting factor in their fitness anyway, right?
Far from it. Lots of bodybuilders don't even consume the damned powder and do amazingly well. Eating and sleeping well, and working your *** off in the gym is enough to get an amazing body.
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Old 15th March 2009, 12:00   #987
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Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post
Guys please don't leave because of some disagreements. This discussion has been very informative for us less educated souls. It is okay to use different products and have different opinion about certain products.

For most people the brand of Whey protein they consume is not the limiting factor in their fitness anyway, right?
Very true. Except, it is not the limiting factor in anybody's fitness. Only the mind is.
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Old 15th March 2009, 14:39   #988
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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
...I have no idea where you are getting your conclusions, you say it is a "non essential" amino acid, the only reason it is listed as non essential is because your body does not produce it. So you have to consume it. That doesn't mean your body produces enough of it,[/b] if you don't workout then its fine but if you do, then it is depleted from the body and you need to get the levels back up again....
Do make up your mind whether the body DOES produce it, or doesn't. BTW, it DOES. non-essential amino acids are the ones that ARE produced by the body, hence do not have to be supplemented through diet. So let us conclude that my "conclusions" are facts; your's aren't!


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...Some might say the same about you....
Nobody does! in light of the misinformed info so authoritatively post, it's best not to go there


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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
You can go wonder why the world uses these products.
Oh, I KNOW! They read the same sites you do (the sites SELLING these products), the same bodybuilding mags (which get tons of money from advertising these products) and/or the free "nutritional" mags (published by the companies MAKING these products) and think they've discovered bodybuilding's holy grail!

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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
You can be happy with what you use, im sure you are making wonderful gains.
Just happy? I'm ecstatic! worked my way up to 87kgs from 48kgs the old fashioned way (btw, that's training hard and eating right and not paying too much attention to the latest wonder product; chicks in wonder bras are an exception though), got a fitness trainer certification, followed by a Performance Nutrition Specialist (one of the first 3 in India) along the way. Been doing this for over 15 years now, so yeah, life is peachy perfect indeedy!

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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
Mods - He made the personal attacks first so don't delete the post. I won't discuss this issue any further.
Oh very true. I'd have disagreed, but the little taunt about me buying something other than 100% Gold can hardly be called an ATTACK, a little wary nibble maybe

Last edited by Rehaan : 17th March 2009 at 13:33. Reason: Post edited. Use quotes, not bold - and please put your points across politely. Thanks.
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Old 15th March 2009, 21:34   #989
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There are always going to be different opinions in the fitness industry. I suggested what worked for me, even though not all bodies are the same, one should try every product before saying there is no need for it.

Quote:
For most people the brand of Whey protein they consume is not the limiting factor in their fitness anyway, right?
It is one of the factors.

Quote:
Eating and sleeping well, and working your *** off in the gym is enough to get an amazing body.
But after your intense workout, your body needs to recover. Protein powders are a very convenient way to add up the grams of protein per day required. It is easier that eating lot of meat throughout the day, which also involves cooking it and thus takes a few hours out of your day.
Our food these days is not as nutritional as before. Sure after a few months or even a year you might see some decent gains but if you are focused on your goal, supplementation is the way to go.

Don't listen to anyone Supersyn, try the product for a month and see how your body reacts to it.
If you are just starting, start with a protein powder and a multivitamin/mineral, take the protein post workout, good amount would be 40-60 grams of it. Also take it anytime during the day if you don't eat a lot of meat and eggs. Try to get just under 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.
Then try products like creatine mono, creatine ethyl, glutamine, etc. and see how your body reacts for a month.
I would suggest creatine since it is one thing that does work. My strength has increased, I don't feel fatigued and my muscles look fuller.

After a while you start to take casien before sleeping or throughout the day as it is a slow releasing protein.
Whey post workout since your muscles are hungry and begging for fuel so take it within ~15 minutes of finishing your workout. You can carry it to the gym instead of coming home to drink it.
Lets stay on topic instead of bickering, help those who need it the most. I have no intention of fighting with people so get off my back.
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Old 16th March 2009, 12:48   #990
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i have used ON 100% whey for quite some time and it has never failed to deliver results. if one is looking for just protein i guess ON is one of the better products. Syntha-6 is quite good as well but comes with its own razzmatazz which the price point didn't justify. That said, if something works for your body its better to stick to it.

loved the comment by SyperSyn on PP brand not being a limiting factor. I couldn't have put it better myself
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