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Old 13th June 2006, 16:29   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
3. Sometimes there ARE government servants who go out of their way to help you - the entire system isnt corrupt. You usually get things done if you present yourself and your case well, behave with dignity and respect the work they do. It does work - if you assume that they're all sleazy *******s out to swindle you, THEY WILL.
I agree! And thank the Lord for them. But shouldn't these be the norm rather than the exception?
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:01   #17
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Food for thought -

Kinda following in Amitoj's sentiments, and attacking it on a more basic and manageable level than an entire passport office or the likes >

Q: When you are driving and a cop stops you, what do you do ?

The first response for 90% of the people is to get their liscence and money ready.

Now take this as the example. Is this the ONLY way out ? NO.

But people would rather pay 20-100 bucks as a bribe to the cop at that time and not go through the inconvenience of getting a pavti and then going to the cop station to pay the fine the legal way.

Then, they go out of their way to complain about the disgusting state of corruption in our country.


I'm not saying we can work miracles.
All i am saying is we have to start somewhere.
The next time a cop pulls you over, reach for your liscence, and not your money, be respectful, accept your mistake and insist on getting a pavti.
(If you're lucky, the cop will be too damn lazy to write you a pavti and lets you go with a warning, as has happened to me 7 out of 8 times that i have been stopped)

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 13th June 2006 at 17:25.
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:02   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
3. Sometimes there ARE government servants who go out of their way to help you - the entire system isnt corrupt. You usually get things done if you present yourself and your case well, behave with dignity and respect the work they do. It does work - if you assume that they're all sleazy *******s out to swindle you, THEY WILL.
Agree with you here.
I have seen both sides of the coin when dealing with Govt officials. The normal one is that they expect bribes every time you try to get some work done from them. But I have had the pleasure of dealing with people who are honest to the core. There are people who have gone out of their ways to help me out.

Will privatisation really help things? Yes and No.

For example, for many things at Bangalore, where earlier we had to use Govt offices, we can now avail of services of organisations like BangaloreOne. It suffices to say that I have liked their services. This is an example of a good fallout of privatisation.

On the other hand, my experiences with private banks have been awful. For example, the corporate bank I am banking with: the bank withdrew Rs. 17000 from my account last week when the cheque I had issued to a gentleman was of Rs. 1700. I wrote two mails to their customer service and even called them up, but to no avail. Then I wrote a very strong mail threatening them of a consumer case and lo and behold! My account is being credited with the remaining amount.

Well, what I am trying to say is that everything ultimately depends on the attitude of the people who are serving you. I have had a mixed bag of services till now. I have had pleasant experiences with BSNL (take that!), but I have had bad experiences with my corporate bank.
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:09   #19
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Quote:
The next time a cop pulls you over, reach for your liscence, and not your money, be respectful, accept your mistake and ask for the pavti.
Yes, we all know how well THAT works.... (insert "rolling eyes" smilee here!)

Edit: Let me add a few more words. All personal experiences and no word of mouth instances here!

My building is off the main road. The road is a private road, belonging to the society. We needed to get it properly paved and build a wall separating our land from the illegal garage that has sprung up next door. Well, to our surprise, as soon as we started building it, the garage guys called the cops and made sure WE stopped work!! The police refused to answer any of our questions about why the illegal garge was allowed to continue, but us, complete with all documents etc. were not allowed to build a simple wall?!? They didn't bother.

The case is not in court. And has been there for the last 18 years. The garage has expanded, they built a gate, put up a signboard. A few years ago, they approached us and ASKED us to finish building the wall. That way they get a solid structure for them I guess! Till date though, we are not allowed to work on the actual lane itself. All because at that time, 18 years ago, my parents along with the rest of the society refused to pay their way through.

And ofcourse, more recently, was the issue of my accident. Thats in court as well. Another 18 years?

Great example's about a working Government system to grow up with isn't it?

In hindsight, should i have just paid my way through and ended the hassel right there. Given a chance, I think we probably would. Its easy to talk till it happens to you. The feeling of disgust at the system WE pay for through our noses by way of crazy taxes, but is not there to stand up for you when you need it.

Last edited by Rtech : 13th June 2006 at 17:23.
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:22   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
Do you notice that India is one of the few (and only major country) where it's citizens have to verify their passports on entry. Have you seen this in the EU or US? The idea here is to prove that the Indian Bureaucracy treats their brethern very poorly and wont move unless bribed. Funnily Whites are treated with kids gloves by the same officials.

My favourite crib. In every other country that you go to, you see a separate counter for nationals, which gets cleared up quickly.

In India, we DO have separate queues, but for "Foreigners" (and recently "POI Cardholders") ONLY. We stand in long queues for the babus to scrutinize you to deem whether you're fit to be granted entry into your own country, while the firangs sail past....

We get to see it everywhere, except that this is supposed to be our own country. When you dont respect your own population, what sort of self respect do you expect our people to have when they go abroad?
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:22   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Yes, we all know how well THAT works.... (insert "rolling eyes" smilee here!)
:WTF:
As i said, it works. Theres no way they can force you to bribe them if you insist on a pavti.
7 out of 8 times they just let me go with a warning, and the other 1 time i got a pavti.
Add to that the 3 times my sister has been stopped while i was teaching her how to drive.

cya
R
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:25   #22
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I have been pulled over by cops only twice until now, both times in India.

First time I did an illegal left during a red signal back in 1995. The SI stopped me and charged me 100 bucks, I paid and got the receipt.

Second time I rear-ended an amby with my two month old maruti 800 at 5Kmph back in 1997. Paid 300 bucks and got the receipt.

I don't mind paying higher legal fee over bribe, that's just me. But what pisses me completely is the lack of choice, asking me to pay bribe when I am legally right. You can argue with them when the issue is small, like traffice tickets. But they hold up your licenses essential to business, one has to pick between idealism and practicality. I don't think I can run my business on DG and survive.
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Old 13th June 2006, 17:34   #23
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I have got my driving licence for Rs75 (1997) 25 for Learning & 50 for permanent licence(Motor cycle with Gear + LMV) after proper tests

Got My passport for Rs300 for 10 years(2000), that time even the form was free & I did not need to go through any agent.

Few months back my friend did what Rehaan said, i.e. he refused to bribe(he was riding his friend's bike & didnt have any papers + the bike was delhi registered) after almost half an hour the cop gave up & let him go for free
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Old 13th June 2006, 18:03   #24
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When returning back from US the customs asked me to pay tax for the SLR camera and video cam that i was carring. After the free allowance of Rs.25000, the money I have to pay is Rs.2000. I paid it and got the receipt. Still the officer insisted on some pocket money. I gave him a look that he is never going to forget in his life time. I asked him "Are you not feeling shy to ask money when you are in uniform?" It makes the other person feel miserable when said in telugu. And he was accompanied by few other officers at that time.
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Old 13th June 2006, 18:12   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
First time I did an illegal left during a red signal back in 1995. The SI stopped me and charged me 100 bucks, I paid and got the receipt.

Second time I rear-ended an amby with my two month old maruti 800 at 5Kmph back in 1997. Paid 300 bucks and got the receipt.
Are you sure they are original receipts????? Because there are lots of cases of police issuing fake receipts....
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Old 13th June 2006, 21:34   #26
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Want to do your bit?

http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/HumJanenge/
http://persmin.nic.in/RTI/WelcomeRTI.htm
http://indiarti.blogspot.com/
Use it to your fullest. I do!
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Old 13th June 2006, 22:52   #27
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
BTW, I have applied for phone connections, licences, passport, paid taxes etc for close to 5 years now. I am yet to pay anything over the stipulated fee.
I had a salestax raid at my Office one day about 2 years back while I was at the Airport dropping someone. I received a call from my office and a rude Vigilance Officer asked me to return to the Office immediately. I asked him to go ahead and verify any document that they wished to see in my absence and that my staff would co-operate with them all the way.

The next day they wanted me to take them to the factory. I gave them the address and told them that I would join them there as I would be commuting in the Bus. I offered to take them along if they wished to accompany me. Needless to state that they left a disappointed lot after a long tiring day.The guys would have cursed their luck & banged their heads against the wall like this.

I have always dreamt that if I have to really bribe these guys, I would lgive anything to see the pleasure in their eyes turn to shock when they see a smith and wenson in my hands instead of a wad of currency. I would have lived my life that day.

So long....
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Old 13th June 2006, 23:23   #28
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I was once caught cutting a red light in Mumbai at the very last signal on the end of my Pune-Mumbai run. It was night, the road was swamped with traffic, and I just moved with the tide because I couldn't even see the signal light. The cop pulled me over, took my licence card and told me bluntly that either I could give him Rs 100 or wait 15 days to get my license back. There was one option I considered -- why not let the man keep my card, get back to Pune, and carry my license book (which was at home)? Maybe apply for a new card at Pune? I bet nobody would even notice; I doubt if Mumbai police will hand over my card to the Mumbai RTO in the first place; if they do, it would take ages for the Mumbai RTO to alert the Pune RTO, by which time I could get a new card. But anyway, I went for the safe option and paid off the guy.
Regards, rks
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Old 14th June 2006, 01:05   #29
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Or you could do what I did, and tell him to his face that he can't keep your DL after issuing you a ticket. I did this, and backed by a call to another (more knowledgeable) TBHPian, stood the guy down.
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Old 14th June 2006, 06:41   #30
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Talking about dealing with corrupt cops, I heard of this from a close friend and "eyewitness" several years ago (before digital cameras were invented).

An unpad truck driver (TD) was being harassed everyday by a cop at a particular junction where my friend had an establishment. The truck driver knew as did my friend that no offence was committed, yet the poor chap had to go through the "rituals" before being "officially robbed". Many times the TD used to express his mental agony to my friend, who could do little to help him. The TD wasn't hurt as much by the money he had to part with (which his malik was unquestioningly reimbursing him), or even the time lost (his clients could "understand"). Reportedly, this self-respecting TD wasn't able to stomach the humiliation that he had to go through, especially the wild charges of his "poor driving skills". The fact that my friend gave him a patient hearing and empathised with him was sufficient for the TD to confide with his plans. On a certain day, the TD showed my friend a bunch of identical driving licences with fake photographs, et.al. and told him not to miss the show the next day same time. When the show (and rituals) began the next day, my friend was wondering what would be different. The TD stopped, looked at my friend and smiled, and without even getting out, pulled out one of the fakes, spat on it and threw it on the face of the cop. Even while the aghast chap was staring, the TD drove straight through his crotch (that was the last time my friend saw that TD)...
<Q.E.D.>
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