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Old 14th June 2006, 07:18   #31
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Originally Posted by varunroy
The next day they wanted me to take them to the factory. I gave them the address and told them that I would join them there as I would be commuting in the Bus. I offered to take them along if they wished to accompany me. Needless to state that they left a disappointed lot after a long tiring day.The guys would have cursed their luck & banged their heads against the wall like this.
That has happened to me. A PF guy came around saying he has to inspect our personnel documents, I asked him to go ahead. After squirming with the records for two hours, he couldn't find any dirt and left silently without even meeting me.

The income tax department regularly sends us notice saying we haven't paid TDS for 6 months, while we pay every month without fail. And they demand we show up at their office with all the documents at the appointed time they fix. I always send the junior most staff with only the TDS payment receipt and nothing else. Why should I send all our documents just because they can't keep track of the payment they receive?

These government departments are always fishing for trouble, if somebody is found not keeping the documentation right, then ask for bribe. Sometimes they ask even if everything is perfect, so that they won't trouble you anymore.

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Originally Posted by varunroy
I have always dreamt that if I have to really bribe these guys, I would lgive anything to see the pleasure in their eyes turn to shock when they see a smith and wenson in my hands instead of a wad of currency. I would have lived my life that day.
That's why I avoid going to any government agency personally, or do bribe negotiation personally. I am afraid I may end up beating up the guy.
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Old 14th June 2006, 10:11   #32
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IMO the following could be the reason why corruption is so deep rooted in our country

1. Very low salary in lower grades, in deprtments like PWD , Police etc. The money they earn is hardly enough for sustaining a family.

2. Increase in cost of living

3. Our family ties which is all positive otherwise. We always think of securing the future of our children, whatever we do is thinking about our next generation, this is in stark contrast with the western life were after a certain age kids are on their own. We have a tendency to support our kids even after they get a job take for ex: the kind of expectations and dreams we have about our kids wedding etc, etc. And people at all level have these dreams which they want to fulfill.

4. Examples set by the politicians , babus thay make in millions so the lower grade wants in thousands.

5. General disregard for the law and the time taken for any kind of legal action. Most of the general public does not believe in the legal machinery because of it's lack of efficency and instances of law favoring the powerful.

Note this is not a justification for corruption , but could be some of the reasons.

Deepu
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Old 14th June 2006, 14:37   #33
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Originally Posted by sushrutha
I disagree with this. If that was the case you would find half the earning population do the same. And more over these ppl(deprtments like PWD , Police etc.) are offered with a rent free, (or a paltry amount of rent) , current free houses/quarters & a GOVERNMENT JOB.
Did you know that many policemen in Mumbai are forced to stay in huts due to shortage of houses/quarters? And their salaries are mostly peanuts with no time bound promotions. (I really hate policemen who take bribes).

Slightly OT: We are taught maths and sciences at school, but how much of emphasis is there on social science and social responsibilities? Unfortunately, we Indians tend to lack social awareness. We keep our houses clean and pour the garbage on road.

V1p3r, Nice topic to discuss!
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Old 14th June 2006, 14:41   #34
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Sushrutha


What according to you will be the salary of a constable which will enable him to lead a decent life?

Again Note: this is not to justify corruption. Low wages could be one of the reasons for corruption.

Best regards
Deepu
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Old 14th June 2006, 14:53   #35
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Yes, I agree about the miserable salaries contributing to the corruption in the case of the Police. However, I wonder that if the Govt. tripled their salaries, would we suddenly see a proportionate decline in corruption? I think it is so deep rooted, that it would take a lot more to break the chain.

The fact is that India is over-populated, and basic economics means that when you have only x amount of money to be split so many ways, each persons pie gets smaller.

If we really get down to the root cause of this mess we find ourselves in, I guess we only have our Government to blame for allowing our country to basically run amok while they greedily horded whatever they could before their respective terms were up.

Also, spare a thought for our fire fighters. They put their lives on the line for the same amount of money and living conditions as our police. However, their line of work is not conductive for corruption.
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Old 14th June 2006, 15:14   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
Yes, I agree about the miserable salaries contributing to the corruption in the case of the Police. However, I wonder that if the Govt. tripled their salaries, would we suddenly see a proportionate decline in corruption? I think it is so deep rooted, that it would take a lot more to break the chain.

Triple the salary and quadrapule the anti-corruption enforcement effort...if that will be enough
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Old 14th June 2006, 15:25   #37
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepug
Sushrutha
What according to you will be the salary of a constable which will enable him to lead a decent life?

Again Note: this is not to justify corruption. Low wages could be one of the reasons for corruption.

Best regards
Deepu
Maybe about 3 or 4 grand ! we pay the lower ranks (non IPS) of our police force in peanuts and expect them to perform like the Bobbies.

Every department in our country is corrupt. In Bangalore even the bus conductor refuses to give you a ticket and lets you travel for half the fare without a ticket. What would you say about that.

Ultimately its the politician to blame who has set this trend of unaccountability. they are the ones who send these signals that one can get away with anything in this country. Its encouraging to see The Supreme Court stepping in and bring things to some order.

So long....
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Old 14th June 2006, 15:28   #38
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Originally Posted by sushrutha
May be as same as a Bus/car driver. Agreed that these ppl don't have much chance of getting bribe, But they are not as corrupt as a Policemen.
Let's just say that quantity of bribe taken is directly proportional to the power (or nuisance value) you wield. If they swap the roles, most likely they will be equally corrupt.
Have you not seen Govt. driver/conductors carrying people without ticket and pocketing half the money? Or,
In private buses, people board the bus after buying tickets and bus driver stops at next junction to carry few more people in his cabin. Not to mention the money goes straight into his pocket.

Last edited by RX135 : 14th June 2006 at 15:30.
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Old 14th June 2006, 15:51   #39
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The salary of RBI Governer is about 54000/- per month. Agreed there will be lot of perks associated with his post. This is the salary of a programmer in IT with some 5 years experience. Agree we cannot compare the salaries in IT and generalize anything.

http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/jan/12rbi.htm

I read some time back in 2005 that a constable earns b/w 3000-3500 per month. Not able to locate the article. I do remember during the Daya nayak's controversy, a mention in one of the articles in a leading newspaper the salary of SI as 9000/- month. Grossly inadequate by any standards.


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Old 14th June 2006, 18:50   #40
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Before 2 yrs, officer from labour department inspected our office. He asked for a attendence register and salary register. He insisted that salary register needs to be signed by every individual employees with all the salary details put in the register. Is it practically possible for a IT industry, where salary is based on performance? ( i guess now that rule has been relaxed though not sure)

Our people refused to bribe him & explained him the difficulties we have in that method. MD got a notice from the labour department.

Now the whole stuff was outsourced to a consultant & we pay him the monthly fees. But the officers are getting their share from consultants which was any billed to the company by the consultants. Hence it's a indirect means of paying the bribe.
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Old 14th June 2006, 19:04   #41
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We talk about paying bribes as the outflow is from our side to get the job done. It would not be interesting to run a poll with the following options

I don't have a driver, but claim the driver reimbursement to save tax

yes or no

I do stay in a own house, but claim HRA to save tax

yes or no
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Old 14th June 2006, 19:43   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surprise
I don't have a driver, but claim the driver reimbursement to save tax

yes or no

I do stay in a own house, but claim HRA to save tax

yes or no

It is fraud - I know a company did tax reversals + written warnings on folks who did the above. Those who continued became persona non grata

It may be your money but if you lead your company to misrepresent facts - it can lead to a lot of hassle.
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Old 15th June 2006, 10:28   #43
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Software professionals earn a lot. But when they get an opportunity to maximize the money, they do make false claims. ( Atleast I had seen most of them do this at all levels in this industry)

Just Iam thinking it in the lines of bribes. If Software professional with good earnings do that, it's difficult for govt employees, who earn peanuts in comparison, to resist the temptation.

Just wanted to put down what I felt.
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Old 15th June 2006, 11:06   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surprise
Just wanted to put down what I felt.
You are right, some "holier than thou" companies actually encourage this. Some companies took a stand on this. The press ....and now IT are looking into this big time!
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Old 15th June 2006, 11:09   #45
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I think you're going a bit off topic here. If a software proffessional tells me that if I want something done, I first need to "gift" him Rs.x before he gets moving even though thats his job, then it would fit this thread. If he finds ways to save tax, that's another thread if you want!
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