Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th September 2013, 08:49   #1
BHPian
 
hellmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GTA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 636 Times
Angry Why should I be the sucker?

This is a story of an average, slightly upper middle class citizen in current day India, and his experiences with the system.

A biker rams into a well maintained car. Car suffers damages, biker simply continues on his way. You feel angry for having to pay up for someone else's mistake. Had this happened to a used nearly-junk beater it would have caused no heartburn. You say to yourself - "Was I a sucker buying a new car?"

Auto rickshaws zoom past you in b2b traffic, spewing white kerosene smoke at your face, their bodies barely able to hold themselves, no lights functioning. They get away with it. You think - "Why should I be the sucker maintaining my vehicle and using my indicators?"

You drive normally, are courteous and follow most traffic rules. Cab drivers tailgate you, throw angry glares and nearly destroy your RVM while they overtake you in a fit of rage. They get away with it. You think - "Why should I be the sucker and follow traffic rules - to get killed?"

You want to turn right at junction so you drive your car into the rightmost lane and wait at the signal. It's green now, but you see everyone else basically turning right from the leftmost lanes, having jumped the queue. They get away with it. You think - "Why should I be the sucker and get late?"

You want to turn a U but there's no legal U in sight except the one a 100m behind. You continue to drive forward for the next U-turn, but you nearly ram a 4 wheeler doing high speeds in the wrong direction. You swerve and find a motorcyclist barging his way through a non-existent median gap. You're abused for driving 'recklessly'. "I must really be stupid to search for a legal U turn".

You drive on mostly junk roads which are routinely strewn with gravel, sand, boulders, and potholes that change maps on a daily basis. These roads turn either into a lake or a swamp with rains. You car's chassis and suspension are taking a beating and you nearly killed the engine last time you took it through knee deep water under that bridge.

You're stopped almost on a daily basis for 'papers check', you're fined if you don't carry your pollution certificate. You're fined for driving a non-state vehicle. Or for the latest supreme court order of the year, like this year's No-Tints drive. You cough up the fine, while a vehicle with a "Govt. of India" sticker drives past you and the policeman throws a salaam, blissfully ignoring that car's non-standard number plate and the dark tints on its windows.

At this point, you curse yourself for having purchased a car at all and think - "Have I been a sucker buying a car in the first place?" You reach home and look lovingly at your parked motorcycle after a long time and wonder if that could be a solution.

Let's not even mention the feeling of paying 83.xx per liter of petrol with you hypermiling to save fuel, while a similar car with a diesel engine honks and zooms past you at 70kmph paying nearly Rs.30 less per liter for his fuel. This is where you think "I'm a sucker paying full price for my fuel".

Enough with automobiles and roads.

A recent article mentioned that only three, yes 3% of India's population actually pay taxes on their income. Many of us on this forum, I'm sure, form the 3%. Everyone else is getting away with not paying anything. Again, why am I the only one paying taxes dutifully?

So, you want to save taxes and see that the govt. provides 'ways' to save, but only if you buy a house. It is extremely expensive to buy a plot of land anywhere in your city. However, even if you do manage to buy a piece of land, there is no guarantee it'll remain on your name tomorrow. It could be that someone decided your piece of land was what he dreamed of and grabbed it on his way home.

Well then, you think, "An apartment must be safer". So, how about paying 60L for 4 walls, 2 rooms, a hall, a kitchen and two restrooms? The banker asks if you'd like to work for him for the next 15 years at 50K per month, or 25 years at 30K per month (random figures, pls don't calculate). You decide you'll work 15 years for the bank and move in to your new home. Next month, God "appears" under the tree across your apartment and a new temple emerges. You're now the privileged recipient of a daily dose of bhakti-geet from 6 in the morning for the rest of your life. Can you complain to someone? Police? Best of luck with that, because the temple is owned by your politician-neighbor in your apartment. You're the sucker here, for, you could easily moved had you not purchased the apartment.

You watch scam after scam unfold with everyone misusing their power to eat crores worth of public money. Lot of hoopla and multi-screen TV debates later, you see them walk out of jail on bail. All along, you've been a good guy, followed rules, paid taxes, but you feel like a sucker because everyone around you seems to be benefiting from the system, but you.

You're basically in a system that is controlled by the super-rich, run by a group of lower level thugs, who run a government voted into power by enticing the poor with schemes, direct benefit bribes, Rs.1 rice, cheap kerosene, biryani packets and alcohol bottles. Where do these scams get the money from? YOU, your hard work, your consumption, your tax money, and your hard earned money poured into an illegit real estate system mostly owned by politicians or those who have influence over them.

The system is for the (rich) people, of the (poor) people, by the (salaried class) people.

The middle class is very aptly called the 'middle' class. I won't need to expand on that.
hellmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 09:21   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 86
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Hey hellmet,

+1 or should i say +1000.

Looks like you had a bad day.

Sadly, this is the story for all of us(every day), the so called upper middle class.

Every day me and my wife drive down in the pathetic road/traffic conditions(for almost 1-1.5 hours each way) to office and back. Incidents quoted by you is what we discuss 80% of the time. First response is always reaction & frustation.

IMO you have a couple of choices which you can make :

1. Get your hands dirty, get out of your comfort zone and take action. But you still will have to suffer. Probably the next generation will see some better results.

2. Crib about it and get frustated. You still have to suffer.

3. Take it easy. Ignore. Avoid as much as possible. Keep your calm and keep moving. Suffering is still there.

4. If you get an opportunity, move out of the country and never come back in this mess.

I use a combination of first three(not fortunate enough to enjoy the privilege of getting the fourth option), its difficult to take a stand on just one of them.

There is another angle to it which my wife keeps reminding me.

It's your atitude and choices which differentiate you from the crowd, you decide what you want to do irrespective of the circumstances. It's easy to follow the rules when things are going smooth, the real test of character always lies in adverse conditions.

This is entirely true, but you need a hell lot of patience for this. But then yeah in India every other instance will test your patience.

There are struggles in every walk of life in our country, so it gets on our nerves.

I completely agree and sympathise with you buddy.

Last edited by somitra1981 : 25th September 2013 at 09:25. Reason: Grammer and Added content
somitra1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 09:33   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
ghodlur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Thane
Posts: 4,924
Thanked: 1,912 Times
Angry Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Hellmet & Somitra,

+1 to the frustrations.

Today morning while driving to office, I waited patiently waited at the signal to go green when the rest of the world was already moving breaking traffic rules. All I got was a middle finger from the car behind me honking incessantly. What do you do then? I plastered a wry smile on my face and moved only when the signal turned green.

Sometimes things do get on my nerves for eg when a biker recently rear ended my car when I was moving at 30kmph on a busy traffic road, before I could get down & inspect the biker had vanished making me fret. Calming myself that things could have gone worse is actually making me accept the things. The authorities on the other hand are mute spectators to all the goings. The road is now the new jungle and jungle raj is the only law here.
ghodlur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 09:35   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,607
Thanked: 1,855 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Because I choose not to stand our ground or I shy away from confrontations.

- I dont get into an argument with the rash biker who feels wronged by fate that he is suffering in the sun while I am sitting in my airconditioned bucket seated comfort. Though he has nicked my car by weaving in and out of traffic lanes.

- I dont argue with the low lives around my building who think that it is perfectly acceptable to bang on drums at 11pm or have building sized speakers, blocking half the road blare out item songs during festivals. Under the garb of religion. And then try to extort money under the name of donations

- I dont want to pay tax where possible or convenient. So I will pay tax on my salary because it is deducted at source. I have no option. But if I am buying, say a wooden dining table built locally, I will choose to pay in case to avoid tax. Why? because even if I pay by cheque I am not sure if that tax amount will go to the government.

Unfortunately, this is how our system is. The choices we have or take, consciously or subconsciously are:

- crib and bear it. This is how it is, so we just nod our heads and go with the flow. The path of least resistance, but also of least satisfaction

- resist and argue. get into arguments and fights and spoil everything from our well ironed clothes to our alreayd grumpy mood.

- work the system. I find this to more practical. Get to know your local police officers. No, you dont need to bribe them or buy them tea or dinner. Just pay a visit to the police station for a small task (such as getting a NOC for a lost RC book). Get to know the inspector level fellow by talking to him. If you have any nuisance in your area, feel free to call up the police station and throw his name around. I have had blaring speakers and bhajan mandalis disrupted within a few minutes. The low lives dont know who reported it. If this relation cannot be built, feel free to call the police control room. They contact the local police station and they do help out. Your name is not asked.

- A friend/ ex colleague had enough one fine evening when a thug swiped past his Activa and abused him. he pulled over and asked his wife to leave with the Activa. he forced the thug to pull over to have a talk. The thug threatened my friend that he will return with n number of people from a specific area. My friend started laughing because he coached kids in that exact specific area in a particular sport for years and he challenged the thug to bring whosover he wished. He also added that he can bring some more people and then they can start a local version of the third world war. I am not sure if that thug improved, but he at least knew that someone would resist. And sometimes that can also be adequate.

- for political issues, we keep complaining but none of us want to get involved. Just try to tell your family and friends that you would quit your career or take a break to stand for the local elections. I am sure you know what kind of expressions you would see on their faces. We are all too smug and happy in our own myopia, working off our lives to pay inflated mortgages for our match box sized homes. Or just working towards buying that second home that we can rent out to get a second income or as an investment to sell when our kids will want to go to college.

The fact my friend is that with the kind of life that we lead, it is highly unlikely to have the revolution that is needed to change the status quo. Anyone who does that is immediately pulled down by the other crabs who feel threatened. To evolve into a better society needs a great deal of good upbringing over a few generations. And to be honest and blunt, this is not happening in a positive way. Else we would not be in this situation in the first place.

So we have people who are either arrogant because they have money, or angry because the arrogant already have the money and they dont have any.

And like you say, we are sandwiched in the middle, because we dont have the heart to be arrogant or the stomach to fight the angry.

Edit: I feel much worse than before because I chose to return to India (I now dont know why!). I guess it would have been better to just stay away as many of us do. Which is the fourth option as mentioned above in one of the posts.

The problem as I see it is that no one is accountable. It is always us or we who is going wrong. If inflation is roof high, then who is to blame? who will fix it? nobody knows and keeps pointing fingers at everyone else.

The media is quick to say that the people are to blame for either not voting or bringing goons into power. But every other candidate is a goon, so regardless of whom I vote for, a goon is going to be elected. Or a corrupt person. Or two in one! So who is accountable? when will it be fixed? where are the timelines?

Last edited by selfdrive : 25th September 2013 at 09:53.
selfdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 09:37   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
thoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kerala
Posts: 1,748
Thanked: 1,067 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Hi hellmet, I couldn't but agree to each and every of your observations. But isn't that life all about, to manage what is in front of you? So let me invite you and me (yes, I too keep falling back) to this (Why I love driving in India!) thread, to try think positively out of all these negativity yet keep your vigil high from all the evil that could snatch your hard work and peace of mind.
thoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 09:45   #6
BHPian
 
babhishek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: KOLKATA
Posts: 310
Thanked: 12 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Fantastic writing, beautifully worded! All of us have gone through everything mentioned in your post, but heck well written!

babhishek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 09:47   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 104
Thanked: 11 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

We live in a country that has a totally crippled system, be it whatever walk of life that you see or experience. Be it roads, infrastructure, social security, public safety, real estate, maintaining your real estate after having acquired it or whatever you can think of. The only respite that one can get by being this "sucker" is, at least that we are not contributing to this pile of debris.

One of my friends once very rightly said that government is made by the people who vote and the people whom they elect are the ones whose thought process matches with their and whom they can relate themselves with. One would vote for and elect the people who support their way of life. We as middle class, slightly upper middle class, lower middle class or upper middle class work and we work like hell to make our ends meet and to improve our living standards and end up paying taxes which are the funds that this rest of the population thrives on. These Food for All schemes, education for all schemes, subsidized food grain schemes and others schemes which are launched by governments under variety of names are actually schemes to gulp down this tax money and nothing more. More so, any little benefit that they bring to society is brought to the section which does not care to pay any taxes and we anyways are at the end of the spectrum that suffers, no matter what. These schemes are not for us, the infrastructure that is built is not for us, the public transport systems are not built in places where the tax payer is residing, the roads are never built in areas where the tax payer has to travel, the vegetables, consumables and food grain is costly only to the tax payer because none of these benefits are meant for the tax payer. That is because the government is not made by the tax payer but is voted to power by either the people who vote for their religious pride or regional pride or the pride they feel by consuming the cheap alcohol that flows to their homes during elections.

The only way out of this is that we unanimously choose to vote and bring about the change that we want. Until we all do that, we will end up cribbing and of course keep on being that sucker. The other way, if you can afford, is

Quote:
Originally Posted by somitra1981 View Post
4. If you get an opportunity, move out of the country and never come back in this mess.

Last edited by tajender : 25th September 2013 at 09:48. Reason: Grammatical correction
tajender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 10:24   #8
BHPian
 
asit.kulkarni93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Pune/ Bahrain
Posts: 515
Thanked: 458 Times
Default

Hellmet thanks mate this is the most
Realistic thread ever. +100
I love following rules, but when a idiotic
Fellow road user breaks these rules and it harms me, my family or other road user, it outrages me. Mistakes do happen but one should be apologetic. People here do mistakes and even if we honk we are reminded about our mothers and sisters. Why? Because the fellow road user is having a political party's sticker or maybe he is the son of a senior level govt officer.
Nowadays me and my bro spot such idiots and name them cool dudes. I have tried my best to tell people calmly and politely as to what they did wrong be it jumping the signal or coming in the wrong way. But all I got was abuses. Yes I was stupid.
But now no more am I doing this social service. You mess with me I trouble you the same way till you clear my way. My dad says you are young , utilise this energy in some good work and not dealing with such maniacs. I understand his point totally but when I am on the road I always think that this same looser could have had hurt my family. I was able to manage but what if my brother would have had been here. I just know one thing if I stay here either I would be frustrated cause of this situation or probably harmed or killed cause once this goes beyond my patience it would be worse for me and my family.
All I now know at is that I have to complete my education and leave this country. My dad served the Indian govt for 18years and the only reason he left India was because of the corruption and the mental pressure he face for those 18 years.
It is very painful to be hurt in your own country and you still can't do anything. I would rather be abused outside , atleast have a reason of being an outsider.
asit.kulkarni93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 10:58   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 86
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
- work the system. I find this to more practical. Get to know your local police officers. No, you dont need to bribe them or buy them tea or dinner. Just pay a visit to the police station for a small task (such as getting a NOC for a lost RC book). Get to know the inspector level fellow by talking to him. If you have any nuisance in your area, feel free to call up the police station and throw his name around. I have had blaring speakers and bhajan mandalis disrupted within a few minutes. The low lives dont know who reported it. If this relation cannot be built, feel free to call the police control room. They contact the local police station and they do help out. Your name is not asked.
selfdrive sir, i agree with this point and appreciate you bought this up as a solution. But the very next thought that comes to my mind is I am an outsider. I am a white collar guy who has to earn a living which cannot be done out of his home town (in some other state). Since 2005, Ive moved from Raipur to Mumbai to Pune to Bangalore, so how many times do I build the relationships and how many times do I learn the local languages to avoid harassment .

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
- for political issues, we keep complaining but none of us want to get involved. Just try to tell your family and friends that you would quit your career or take a break to stand for the local elections. I am sure you know what kind of expressions you would see on their faces. We are all too smug and happy in our own myopia, working off our lives to pay inflated mortgages for our match box sized homes. Or just working towards buying that second home that we can rent out to get a second income or as an investment to sell when our kids will want to go to college.
Bingo. You are spot on. A generation will have to sacrifice their present to make the future of the next generation better. Well have to take a break from thinking only I repeat only our selves and think of the nation at large .
somitra1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 11:09   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,582
Thanked: 3,244 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

You are either fixated on the problem with a victim mentality (which leads to moroseness or depression), or you are having a problem solving mentality. In which case you have one of three options:
- You emigrate
- You either fight with every such idiot everywhere
- You develop a thick skin and get on with life.

I fully agree on most of your points. A large part of 2013 for me has been spent working in Malaysia which is a far more civilized nation than India on precisely such parameters. Many initial weekends were spent in silent impotent rage at Indian shortcomings.

At the end of the day, your reality is the one you choose to believe in. Thinking of it as sucker/victim mentality is paralyzing and achieves nothing. Its like all of us can spend our days paralyzed by fear that one day we will be dead, our loved ones will be dead, maybe the world we inhabit may come to an end, yada yada yada.

Or you can live each moment, embrace life as it comes and move on.

Its a half empty glass (actually somewhere between 10% and a quarter actually) - but theek hai, tedha hai par mera hai. This is India - this is home!
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 11:10   #11
BHPian
 
mav2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 562
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Wow, mirrors my thoughts to a large extent. Its sad that we have reached the state that we have, taking into account that India may be one of the richest countries ever. But most of that wealth is either stashed away in India in cash form or abroad. Rules and taxes are meant for you and me, the guys who pay the taxes.
mav2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 11:26   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,613
Thanked: 949 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post

You watch scam after scam unfold with everyone misusing their power to eat crores worth of public money. Lot of hoopla and multi-screen TV debates later, you see them walk out of jail on bail. All along, you've been a good guy, followed rules, paid taxes, but you feel like a sucker because everyone around you seems to be benefiting from the system, but you.

You're basically in a system that is controlled by the super-rich, run by a group of lower level thugs, who run a government voted into power by enticing the poor with schemes, direct benefit bribes, Rs.1 rice, cheap kerosene, biryani packets and alcohol bottles. Where do these scams get the money from? YOU, your hard work, your consumption, your tax money, and your hard earned money poured into an illegit real estate system mostly owned by politicians or those who have influence over them.

The system is for the (rich) people, of the (poor) people, by the (salaried class) people.
We are suckers because we chose to be that way.
You had a choice to get dirty and try becoming super rich thru devious means, did you ever try it?
You had a choice to get angry and blow your lid all over, not caring for consequences, did you ever try it?

I am sure if you have kids, you must be trying to tame them down every now and then trying to instill good "sanskar" crap. It is this exact thing that has blunted you. made you complacent, smug, myopic, WEAK.

It is a jungle out there, and you need to be an animal to survive and become the alpha male of the pack.
Remember rules are created so that the weak live under an illusion of safety and security.
The strong always have means to survive otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Because I choose not to stand our ground or I shy away from confrontations ...
We are all too smug and happy in our own myopia, working off our lives to pay inflated mortgages for our match box sized homes. Or just working towards buying that second home that we can rent out to get a second income or as an investment to sell when our kids will want to go to college.


So we have people who are either arrogant because they have money, or angry because the arrogant already have the money and they dont have any.

And like you say, we are sandwiched in the middle, because we dont have the heart to be arrogant or the stomach to fight the angry.
You are right, India will never ever have any revolution of any kind.
Infact did we EVER have any revolution in the past?

Last edited by alpha1 : 25th September 2013 at 11:28.
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 11:33   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 372
Thanked: 80 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

In my city police of every circle gleefully accept thick bundles of 1000 rupee stashes thrown at their faces so that the various pandals and car processions go on while blaring excessively loud music and bursting loud lakshmi bombs. I will be fair and say all communities are involved in police bribery.

Yes we live in a failed state. It is a shame on each every educated one of us if we chose to stay on here (obligations & compulsions aside). Otherwise grin and bear it is the name of the game a.k.a chalta hai attitude.
Ford5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 11:37   #14
BHPian
 
aneezan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 408
Thanked: 181 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Reflective discussion. Facing these daily, in one form or the other in public life has made me thick skinned. I have got the glares, the abuses, the fingers. There is no use returning the same. Some years back, I used to shout back too, but then I realized that I was just satisfying my ego. Would the other fellow even think back at the mistake he had done? He/She will do the same things every time they get a chance. Its in the blood of most of the Indian motorists.
I have this depressing moment almost every day. A right turn, where ideally we should wait for on-coming traffic to clear(or a good Samaritan to stop) . But hey, who cares. Everyone just keeps going. In-the end, its chock-a-block. No one is able to move and I start seeing hands and words go up in the air. At my turn, I make it a point to wait. But, by then I have hundreds of abuses and honks being hurled at me from behind. I persevere, and soon enough the traffic clears. Its a clean turn for everyone to take. People can't understand that its very simple, a 2 minute patience will work.

In the end, its all in the thinking. This is India.
aneezan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2013, 12:02   #15
BHPian
 
razorBlades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 164
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Why should I be the sucker?

Helmet, I agree with you.

People (We) have become very arrogant, impatient and very very selfish.

Take for instance, the vacant seats in medical colleges are deliberately not filled for the sake of money (management seats). Its a fixed price of medical education here (what i heard around) for MBBS its 40 lacs and MD 1 crore from a reputed institution. People who earn their money (white), pay taxes on it, give this as donation (black) for their kids to be a doctor. Someone who had spent close to 1.5 crores graduating wont be doing society any favor (mostly). We the tax payers end up buying inflated medicines and services.

If this is the case for us the middle class, think about the poor who cant afford it. Eventually they get angry at anyone who has money. We, the middle class get angry at people who misuse our money (tax). The people who have money & power get angry when someone asks how did he get money. Everyone is angry and arrogant!

The question is how to change this and where to start? will it ever change?

Patience, Tolerance, Forgiveness I have tried it all and it does not help most of the time. Probably I just need to get mature (really?) and accept that I am a sucker!

On a lighter note, only batman can save us

Last edited by razorBlades : 25th September 2013 at 12:04.
razorBlades is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
XUV - Should I or should I not? ganeshram SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 20 4th November 2011 14:19
Why should someone buy a Honda-CR-V/soft-roader in India ? mithun The Indian Car Scene 45 18th October 2006 12:26
Why should I care about a hot Mustang? BunnyPunia The International Automotive Scene 12 19th September 2006 09:52
This is why you should fasten you Seat Belts. epyupc Shifting gears 17 15th July 2005 14:25


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:45.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks