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Old 30th October 2013, 02:21   #16
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Originally Posted by watfor View Post
One thing which I find out of place in this episode is the racism allegation. While AF has messed up big time with the followup after the flight cancellation, I really do not see anything here to indicate that they have been racist. Yes, they messed up, but why bring up the racism card?
Racism whether overt or not should not be tolerated. In this case, it has been mentioned quite explicitly within this person's blog that people from asian (specifically India) countries were treated differently than others. I want to take this person's word but then when your emotions run high you seem to dial everything to max. Rather than making blanket statements -

What I would hope to find out eventually is if AF indeed applied for the visa and that this was rejected by border control.

As far as border patrol is concerned, they are allowed and have provided visitor visas to people who hold an Indian Passport at the port of entry. I have been an benefactor twice, once each at Heathrow and Charles de Gaulle. So the airline better have proof that border control indeed rejected the visa request and not just broad statements implying different rules for people with different passports.

Charles de Gaulle does not have a hotel within the international transfer area as far as I am aware but the airline could have handled the meal and stay of its stranded paying customers in a better fashion. On this front, a compensation to the people affected should be in order due to the incompetence of the airline's staff at the airport.

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Originally Posted by nitinralli View Post
Sad to hear this. Well this is not present in international flights only but domestic too these days. My friend had same kind of experience where her flight from Hyderabad to Delhi schedule for 10 AM was first canceled and then delayed to 1 PM, later again delayed to 4 PM and finally went ahead with 6PM flight. And that final flight was jam packed, so you can clearly understand why it was delayed so many times.
No, it is not clearly understood as to why the delays occurred. As with most machines aircrafts too suffer from malfunction and sometimes these happen more than once a day at the same airport. There are preventive maintenance items that cause the airline to pull an aircraft out of service otherwise they run the risk of massive fines if and when audited.

There could be crew scheduling issues which force airlines to cancel or delay their flights. There are regulations in place that force crew members (especially pilots) to have mandatory rest after specific amount of time on duty for safety sake and if one of their flights get delayed, there is a cascading effect that forces the airline to pull the pilot out of service which causes cancellation if there are no reserve pilots available at a particular airport.

It is also true and possible that airlines decide to cancel a flight due to low passenger load and try to consolidate flights which sucks when it happens.

But to assume this to be the major reason for all delays or cancellations is not being informed.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 30th October 2013 at 03:47. Reason: Merging back-to-back posts. Plz use the Multi-Quote option to reply to more than one post at a time.
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Old 30th October 2013, 04:00   #17
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Default re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

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Originally Posted by watfor View Post
One thing which I find out of place in this episode is the racism allegation. While AF has messed up big time with the followup after the flight cancellation, I really do not see anything here to indicate that they have been racist. Yes, they messed up, but why bring up the racism card?
From his blog, to a similar questions as yours, his reply:

"You would be surprised to know that Jo, who was a fellow co-passenger from Amsterdam, who was also given Hotel Accommodation amongst other things was offered 600 euro in Cash or 800 Euro in travel credit as soon as she landed. Where as none of have heard from Air France until yesterday and they offered one of the Indians a 200 Euro compensation. I don't know how they calculate it, but it doesn't seem like a preconceived algorithm to me."

If this is not racism what is?
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Old 30th October 2013, 06:43   #18
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From his blog, to a similar questions as yours, his reply:

"You would be surprised to know that Jo, who was a fellow co-passenger from Amsterdam, who was also given Hotel Accommodation amongst other things was offered 600 euro in Cash or 800 Euro in travel credit as soon as she landed. Where as none of have heard from Air France until yesterday and they offered one of the Indians a 200 Euro compensation. I don't know how they calculate it, but it doesn't seem like a preconceived algorithm to me."

If this is not racism what is?
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Originally Posted by J.B View Post
I don't know how they calculate it, but it doesn't seem like a preconceived algorithm to me."

If this is not racism what is?
They might be calculating compensation based on ticket cost. It varies from person to person based on time of booking and various deals.

But that does not absolve them of their moral responsibility and racist behaviour. Treating Indians like third rate citizen and taking advantage of their situation for gain is not acceptable.

The cheapos are trying to save even on compensation.

For god sake, 200 euros for the humiliation? Where do they come up with such figures? Is that for unused meal vouchers?
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Old 30th October 2013, 06:52   #19
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Default re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

The only way out is to just stop patronizing these airlines on our next trip. We all fly for work to various destinations across the world. Sometimes we choose AF/KLM or other European airlines due to the range of destinations they offer.
But, if they don't alter their behaviour, we can look at alternatives - example taking some other airline to a European hub, and then taking a fast train
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Old 30th October 2013, 10:45   #20
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Default re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Why cannot our Ministry of Civil Aviation or the foreign ministry take it up? Try doing this to one of the US citizens and the entire Government would feel the repurcussions. Is it because we are a tolerant race? The idea of posting on the FB page of the AF seems like a good idea. And please do sue them.
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Old 30th October 2013, 10:58   #21
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Originally Posted by eq24 View Post
If anyone can recommend how is American, I have to fly to a small city in Arizona where sadly only American and US Air operate and thus no Jet or any of the nice ones for me. I have flown United a long time back, is it still OK?
I am from Phoenix and try to avoid American as much as I can, never had a bad experience with them as such , but Southwest which is based out of Phoenix is better in my opinion ( mostly because of baggage and flight frequency reasons) .
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Old 30th October 2013, 11:01   #22
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Default re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Few days ago I was reading about this
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...es/?tid=pm_pop

India is the most racist country according to this. As someone commented on that page, there is difference in what people say and what they do.

In cases mentioned in this thread, it might also help 'them' that we don't protest at anything and are meek to anything thrown at us (from our people also).
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Old 30th October 2013, 11:54   #23
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Default re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Wasn't surprised on reading this. Have traveled from Bangalore to Paris on a Air France flight and you get first hand experience of racism. Right from ground staff who despite of being Indians, trouble only the Indians with additional checks like company ID card (if you are going for work), weighing hand luggage etc.

The in-flight staff is equally rude and racist. Indians are often denied second round of tea or a specific veg food item. There is nothing called 'courtesy' on Air France onboard. Decided to do away with Air France therefore. The arabic airlines - Qatar, Oman are much better and recommended for flights to Europe especially.
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Old 30th October 2013, 13:16   #24
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Looks like trouble for AF has just started . Media has picked up the story and is on front page.

http://www.firstpost.com/business/on...a-1201891.html

Between shared it with a french colleague of Mine and He is yet to respond on it . I am sure he will spread it .
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Old 30th October 2013, 13:49   #25
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

And here's a lousy revert from Air France customer care team, even attempting to shut up the OP implying that they will pay their way out, of course without any numbers being mentioned or any of the concerns being answered

Post with Air France's reply : Link

Jay Shah's response : Link

Edit: Mid-day's article on the same. But I wouldn't read too much into these articles until & unless the global new agencies pickup this incident.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 30th October 2013 at 13:53.
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Old 30th October 2013, 14:11   #26
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Long time back, I flew once each on Lufthansa & Air France. After seeing the service and the treatment, I have never flown them ever since(last 10 years!). I have deferred my travel plans but will NOT fly either of them for the arrogance and the shabby treatment meted out to us-INDIANS!!

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If anyone can recommend how is American, I have to fly to a small city in Arizona where sadly only American and US Air operate and thus no Jet or any of the nice ones for me. I have flown United a long time back, is it still OK?
Hi eq24, You can do Emirates till DFW and hop into an American one there to AZ. I have flown American enough in last 2 years and they are better than they were earlier.
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Old 30th October 2013, 14:23   #27
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

When I first read this post, I put all the blame squarely on Air France. I think there are racial undercurrents, however I think a major chunk of the Fault here lies with India.
Let me explain.

Jo got 600EU or 800EU travel credit.
The question you will ask is why?
The answer is not her skin color. The answer is EU. The European Union. If Air France wants to be able to fly in EU, it has to pay her 600EU or whatever.

Unfortunately, our civil aviation authorities have not made any such rules. There is no stipulated rule which says so.

While the twits lambasting Air France are doing the right thing, I would think we need to put pressure on DCGA or whatever to have similar rules so that Fliers are compensated for Delays, and not by "peanuts" and sandwitch, but by good amount of money, enough to cover their stay in a Good hotel anywhere in the world with food and drink for their family.
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Old 30th October 2013, 14:36   #28
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

I thought that EU Regulation 261/2004 applied to all passengers departing from the EU, but then maybe I misinterpreted it.
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Old 30th October 2013, 14:48   #29
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

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I thought that EU Regulation 261/2004 applied to all passengers departing from the EU, but then maybe I misinterpreted it.
Nobody pays up until you put a gun to their heads, and maybe even cock the trigger.
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Old 30th October 2013, 14:58   #30
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Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Wait what?

This guy wrote a post laced with superlatives and melodrama.

He might be a victim but would have appreciated if it was just to the point instead of adjectives thrown around in fit.

Good luck to him.
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