Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st October 2013, 23:56   #61
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,919
Thanked: 1,178 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

The guy's letter is full of melodrama. His repetitive Alexandre, Alexandre was like he was begging Alexandre. Most posts above are also melodramatic like movie dialogues, like calling baboons, putting a gun to head and pulling trigger etc. etc. We Indians are no less racists. Probably we are the worst. Now we got a taste of our own medicine. Guys crying foul here should see how most Indians behave at airports and in planes--- talking loudly to aone another, talking even more loudly over cellphone. Pushing and jostling, rushing, jumping queues and totally lacking any ettiquette and manners. It doesn't matter whether you speak English or not. Most Japanese do not but see how polite and well behaved they are in public places. It is this general behaviour which has brought us this disrepute. Granted that this still doesn't give them any right to ill-treat us. It should be condemned. And that should be done in a firm and assertive way, as has been suggested by Jeroen. Not being verbose without conveying anything of substance and relevance.

And yes, we can see this mannerless behaviour of ours on a daily basis on our city roads in daily commute.
pgsagar is offline  
Old 1st November 2013, 00:26   #62
Mik
BHPian
 
Mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: GGN>BLR
Posts: 359
Thanked: 296 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
(Older) ladies struggling with getting their luggage in the overhead bins and not a single guy will help?
Not just older - my twenty something wife was flying from Houston - London -Delhi on British Airways. On the Houston - London flight the moment she got to her seat, two guys stood up and helped her place her rather heavy bag on the overhead storage bin.
On the London - Delhi flight filled with desis, she had to struggle alone to lift it up - while everybody looked on at the 'tamasha'. The gentleman standing behind her kept trying to gently push her away so that he could get to his seat. Have seen similar scenes and the general ruckus we tend to cause in different airports.
That being said,
I fully empathize with Mr Shah and will not let that empathy be diluted by how we Indians generally behave or how melodramatic the letter was (it really was! )
The moot point is, as has become increasingly clear from similar cases with the same airline and its inconsiderate response and subsequent deletion of facebook comments referencing the issue - there is some sort of neglect, bias and disdain.
I will not touch Air France for life.
Mik is offline  
Old 1st November 2013, 06:08   #63
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LAX-SNA-BFL-BLR
Posts: 319
Thanked: 12 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
The guy's letter is full of melodrama. His repetitive Alexandre, Alexandre was like he was begging Alexandre. Most posts above are also melodramatic like movie dialogues, like calling baboons, putting a gun to head and pulling trigger etc. etc. We Indians are no less racists. Probably we are the worst. Now we got a taste of our own medicine. Guys crying foul here should see how most Indians behave at airports and in planes--- talking loudly to aone another, talking even more loudly over cellphone. Pushing and jostling, rushing, jumping queues and totally lacking any ettiquette and manners. It doesn't matter whether you speak English or not. Most Japanese do not but see how polite and well behaved they are in public places. It is this general behaviour which has brought us this disrepute. Granted that this still doesn't give them any right to ill-treat us. It should be condemned. And that should be done in a firm and assertive way, as has been suggested by Jeroen. Not being verbose without conveying anything of substance and relevance.

And yes, we can see this mannerless behaviour of ours on a daily basis on our city roads in daily commute.
i just read that letter on airliners.net, and it did seem a little over the top, but i know Air France/KLM has a very shoddy reputation when it comes to stuff like this. I try to avoid them at all costs. Also, i found this information with regards to France, from this thread: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ad.main/259331

"France is one of a handful of EU countries that require Indian citizens to be in possession of an ATV (Airside Transit Visa) even for transiting through CDG airside (even if s/he never steps foot in France proper and just stays airside).

An ATV national is usually regarded with utmost concern and given the highest possible level of scrutiny when applying for a change of status, and are considered, by and large, of posing extreme risk to the Schengen country imposing ATV rules. This is mandated by Schengen legislation and is in no way some form of profiling.

Being approved a last-minute short-stay visa for an ATV national is extremely unlikely - the fact that some of the passengers in CDG got a visa most likely involved some wrangling between AF and the authorities. Standard procedure would be immediate denial unless emergency medical needs exist.

Of course, AF should have provided the best possible treatment given the circumstances, and the pax is entitled to compensation per EU law (may have to fight for it in court, it is still ambiguous whether the rules apply for transfer pax on a non-EU to non-EU destination via the EU). But this is AF we're speaking of, in CDG - you expect bad treatment and passive-aggressive attitudes. Especially if you don't speak French."

@Mik. I have noticed the exact same behavior on any India bound flight. People dont care (but hey its an Indian trait right ); i try to help anyone who has a hard time struggling to get their luggage into the overhead bin, i also help them take it out so that we can all get off the plane faster .
CaliAtenza is offline  
Old 1st November 2013, 06:28   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,053
Thanked: 5,309 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik View Post
Nomelodramatic the letter was (it really was! ) The moot point is, as has become increasingly clear from similar cases with the same airline and its inconsiderate response and subsequent deletion of facebook comments referencing the issue - there is some sort of neglect, bias and disdain. I will not touch Air France for life.
Helping people, especially ladies, elderly and kids is very much a part of Indian culture. Unfortunately with the redistribution of the wealth, now almost every madasamy, manu, manjula and mohammed can fly anywhere he or she wants. They bring their poor behaviour standards, lack of education, lack of common courtesy etc with them.
You can take the man out of the village, but never the village out of the man! It is quite possible to have the headman of a Khap panchayat sitting next to you on an aircraft. Such has been the outcome of this sudden 'egalitarianism'. From nothing to everything in no time at all!

It is perfectly horrid on any flight, whether domestic or international or even on a train, when the passengers all start picking up their fat ugly suitcases, jostle everyone else and start moving in a wave towards the door. Normal common sense and common courtesy means that you allow those seated nearer the exit to leave first and thereby make it easy for everyone. A horrible trait we have is to go yak yak yak on the filthy mobiles till the very last minute and then again switch it on the moment one reaches the ground and start going yak yak yak again! Add to this, the obnoxious ringer tones that you have nowadays, right from third rate bollywollynonsense songs, to horrible ringtones and singtones and one has to live one's life amidst a cacaphony of ugly sounds made by miserable loutish people.
Wow! This country needs many more lessons in civilization indeed!
shankar.balan is offline  
Old 1st November 2013, 06:35   #65
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,584
Thanked: 10,608 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

What an uproar the letter has caused! http://www.firstpost.com/business/on...a-1201891.html

Quote:
Some time yesterday, geniuses at Air France figured out that life was not good and that they had to act. They tried, with a clumsy attempt at buying Mr. Shah out. “In closing, we will be happy to assess your case and we would be grateful if you could forward us your bank details such as the name and address of your bank as well as your account number. We trust the above explanations will go some way towards restoring your confidence in our Company and we look forward to welcoming you back to our services in the near future,” is how Air France’s letter to Mr. Shah ended. That should be the end of that, no? No. “I will share my Bank Details once you provide details of the Compensation,” says Mr. Shah. He’s obviously many times bitten, and very, very shy. This is going to be fun.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/business/on...ce=ref_article

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 1st November 2013 at 06:39.
SS-Traveller is offline  
Old 1st November 2013, 13:13   #66
Senior - BHPian
 
narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,703
Thanked: 1,016 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

I have had a similar experience with Gulf Air when flying from Abu Dhabi to Chennai. The flight was via Dubai. After we landed at Dubai, the connecting flight did not take off on time. there was no information from the staff on the delay and they just kept delaying the departure time. Mind you this was around 9pm and guess what, finally the flight took off at 6am the next day morning. None of the Indian passengers were offered any hotel assistance. at around 3-4am after lot of noise from all passengers, they offered a bottle of water and some old food. we noticed that some westerners were given calling cards and a prepaid card to buy any food they want at the airport. when we raised this, the airline staff called the airport police and threatened us saying we will be arrested because it was illegal to protest in a ****** country.

in a way most international airlines barring a few from SE Asia are racist towards Indians. Some of it might be a result of our own behaviour but largely, its very easy for anyone to be racist for that matter on another person. we ourselves do that when we see African tourists or for that matter people from North east are treated badly.

Last edited by narayan : 1st November 2013 at 13:17.
narayan is online now  
Old 1st November 2013, 14:35   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,919
Thanked: 1,178 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Absolutely!
I agree that AF was wrong in all counts but at home, we behave like spoilt kings during travels.

Everyone seems to be heading to attend the world's most important meeting pushing everyone on their way. Instructions from airline staff are ignored as if they mean nothing. Pushing others to be first to enter/exit any means of public transport seems to be the only motive. We abuse, shout and misbehave with the staff but in return we want them to behave like our slaves.

I also believe that this trend is getting worse day by day and see no improvement in near future.

Abroad, we hardly see people talking on their mobiles. In Delhi Metro, half of the people are busy speaking on top of their voices attending some 'business call'.

This country surely needs lessons in civilization.
Very well said. Our behaviour at public places is downright disgusting. And it indeed is getting worse by the day. As Shankar Balan has rightly said you can take a man out village but not a village out of man. As for people sticking up for rural folks' lack of manners, I would say, manners are not part of education. You might have studied up to only 2nd or 3rd class and that too in your vernacular and might not know A to Z of alphabets, that's ok, but basic manners are same everywhere. Whatever language you speak.

There is this business guy in my area who has made his millions in real estate. If this guy goes overseas and comes back and tells me that Germans or French ill-treated him, I would say, "very bad. They should have killed you." This guy is one of the most uncouth, foul-mouthed ******* I have ever seen in my life. Picks fight with everyone in neighbourhood, behave like he owns this planet. Honks like mad, keeps his car in reverse gears for several minutes while people suffer his cheap loud reverse horn chime, then cheap loud ringtone of his mobiles and then that disgusting tone he speaks in and the language. His tribe is present everywhere. In public places, restaurants, trains, planes, buses. They would push you, jostle you, stamp on your toes and would not utter a single word of apology. And queue? What's that? In planes, airhostesses literally have to beg people to switch off mobiles or remain seated as the plane taxis. And they exit as though the plane is on fire. On public roads you will see these disgusting characters who would cut you off or rear-end you and then get out and will swear at you for braking. Now if such people frequent overseas then one can imagine what kind of image they will create.

Last edited by pgsagar : 1st November 2013 at 14:36.
pgsagar is offline  
Old 1st November 2013, 14:45   #68
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 991
Thanked: 722 Times
Default

A friend of mine, who is by the way, physically challenged and a mother, faced similar discrimination and rude behavior from AF staff at CDG airport a few years back. It was quite a horrendous experience for her.

Here is her experience in her own words:

Quote:
This reminded me of my own battles with Air France. In June 2011, I travelled transatlantic with my then 20-months-old son.

Onward Journey - They did not serve an infant meal saying they have only a child meal. So my baby survived on whatever I was carrying with me (mostly formula and baby cereal).They refused to give me warm/hot water to prepare a formula. So I had to prepare his feeds with chilled water (the only available) and subsequently the kid got a cold.

Return - I had called them up earlier to confirm about priority boarding (which they promise to offer to passengers with infants) as I was travelling alone with a baby. They confirmed, but at the airport they made me queue up for 2 hours and refused to even let me drop my baggage. (I was already checked in through a kiosk.) "You must wait in the queue."

Now for the best part. In Paris, the ground staff (prominently displaying an AF badge) refused to let me use an elevator (in-service, very much working and only 10 feet away) and asked me to take the escalator instead. "Like everybody else". I refused because I had a stroller with a baby in it and I am not very confident about doing a balancing feat on an escalator with tonnes of stuff and a child (even with the stroller folded up). People who know me, know why. The AF woman insisted that I should carry the open stroller with the child in it. When I refused to budge and pointed out the safety sign on the side of the escalator that advises about things you should not take on it, that woman took the stroller from my hands and took it up the escalator with her. With my baby in it. With 2 wheels hanging up in the air. I watched...stunned and teared up while the kid started crying at the sight of a stranger taking him away from Ma. Then she came down the adjoining one and said "that is how you do it" and walked off. I couldn't stay to fight it out with her as my kid was a level up, alone and crying.

Needless to say, they lost my checked-in baggage as well (the only time that has happened to me) and I got it only 23 hours later.

After a lot of email-baazi(as I term it) Air France did nothing but write how sorry they are for inconvenience caused. They are not responsible for the behavior of the Ground Staff at CDG Airport. I could not get an infant meal because I was not carrying him as a lap child but had booked a seat for him (Seriously. I thought spending money would entitle you to better service, not worse!). They will look into the reason why no warm water was available on board. And so on and so forth.

Last edited by roy_libran : 1st November 2013 at 14:54.
roy_libran is offline  
Old 2nd November 2013, 12:44   #69
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,604
Thanked: 139 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Undoubtedly, Air France & its staff (cabin & ground) have a racist attitude towards Indians.
They think they are doing a big service to Indians by operating flights to India!
I traveled by Air France once & could feel their step-motherly treatment towards Indians (especially by their airport staff at CDG) and decided never to travel on this sick airline!
finneyp is offline  
Old 2nd November 2013, 22:36   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
sagarpadaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,615
Thanked: 1,214 Times
Default

Air France, you have just ensured that none of my family will fly you ever again. Good bye.
sagarpadaki is online now  
Old 3rd November 2013, 08:55   #71
Senior - BHPian
 
rohanjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,190
Thanked: 683 Times
Default

Wow! Until recently, I thought my experience with Air France was unique. Now I feel sad because my experience had no exclusivity :(

I travelled by Air France 4 years ago. The sector was Bangalore - Paris - Philadelphia and back. I don't remember much now. I remember being asked to relocate my laptop bag in the overhead compartment, being one of the few Indians to go through additional frisking just outside the bridge leading to the plane in Paris, staff ignoring me on arrival at Bangalore when I reported that my suitcase was open but there was no TSA pamphlet inside etc.
rohanjf is offline  
Old 3rd November 2013, 09:22   #72
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,427
Thanked: 3,516 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Slightly off topic but why is everyone still stuck with these western europe carriers. Recently I have had the pleasure of flying Emirates, Qatar, Thai and our own desi Jet airways on international travels to Europe and USA and found them to be excellent in terms of servicing and the aircraft itself. Also heard good things about Singapore and Finn air and going to try them next.

Emirates has been infact a very nice experience and the stopover at Dubai an added bonus for some shopping.

Does traditionally snobbish carriers like British, AF and Lufthansa still offer anything more in terms of connectivity etc for a passenger to choose them over the newer carriers I mentioned above?
drmohitg is offline  
Old 9th November 2013, 05:00   #73
BHPian
 
Jeeper1941's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 229
Thanked: 351 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Wow, pretty shocking experience. I've not flown AF or BA, so cannot comment on them, but I have flown Virgin (Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia), Qantas and Singapore Airlines extensively, and have never experienced any racism or any such attitudes from them.

Singapore Airlines is the best and Virgin is a close second. Qantas is improving, service on their long haul sectors (especially to the US) is very good. In India, I've found Jet Airways to be the best. Kingfisher was pretty good too.
Jeeper1941 is offline  
Old 9th November 2013, 07:49   #74
BHPian
 
pdma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 597
Thanked: 810 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post

I remember being asked to relocate my laptop bag in the overhead compartment, being one of the few Indians to go through additional frisking just outside the bridge leading to the plane in Paris, staff ignoring me on arrival at Bangalore when I reported that my suitcase was open but there was no TSA pamphlet inside etc.
I second this point , I never understood why we should go through additional frisking , in fact i was made to remove my shoes and socks as well in Amsterdam for checking before boarding a flight.This is embarrassing for sure when you get this unwanted attention for no reason , specially after the X-ray scan which did not show any red spots.

I was treated in a similar fashion at the Mexico City immigration counter. As soon as I walked to the officer at the kiosk , he took a few minutes checked my passport and then made a signal to a security guard standing near by and I was escorted to a nearby room.It was very embarrassing, I could see through the glass of this room that they were greeting other communities well, and passing them through without hassle and on the other side they pushed a me aside for questioning as If I was caught carrying drugs.

After a 20 min wait another official walks into this room and took my interview (yes, literally) and checked my documentation.I asked him what is wrong and why am I the only person pulled aside when I was on a properly backed up business trip , he politely said that these checks are random and I should not feel bad about this.Random seriously !!!, when I can see that out of the entire list of passengers I was the only one pulled out (at least for the 40 min when I was in this room). They eventually passed me through after another 5 min but again it was for sure a bad experience when people ogle at you when you are pulled aside for no reason.
I do not recall seeing another Indian on this flight , else I would have had some company while waiting for my interview .


Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post

Slightly off topic but why is everyone still stuck with these western europe carriers.
drmohitg atleast in my case , I never get to choose the airline as all my trips are sponsored by my company. I have never traveled outside India except for these business trips which are usually for a week or two.
Iam still settling down and at least for now cannot afford pleasure trips with my family.

I have a special place for the Altis in my heart and my desire only grew stronger after reading your ownership review .

Last edited by benbsb29 : 9th November 2013 at 10:14. Reason: Extra smileys removed. Plz limit to 2 smileys per post.
pdma is offline  
Old 10th November 2013, 04:00   #75
BHPian
 
Jeeper1941's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 229
Thanked: 351 Times
Default Re: Air France KLM ill-treats Indian passengers yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post
I second this point , I never understood why we should go through additional frisking , in fact i was made to remove my shoes and socks as well in Amsterdam for checking before boarding a flight.This is embarrassing for sure when you get this unwanted attention for no reason , specially after the X-ray scan which did not show any red spots.
The thing that really ticks me off is Indians being racist toward other Indians. When we were flying to the US in 2011 from Melbourne, just before boarding the aircraft, my dad and I, along with another Indian gentleman were pulled aside for "a random security check" - and guess who was the guy doing the "checking" - a Punjabi guy who could barely speak English! (no offense to other Punjabis on this forum )
Jeeper1941 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Concept Hyundai: Ill-mannered sales staff gaurav911 Indian Car Dealerships 39 26th July 2017 15:16
Ill-treated Supercars from around the world Scorcher The International Automotive Scene 59 31st May 2017 19:03
Air France Plane goes missing!!! 228 feared dead! anilkalvani Shifting gears 114 12th March 2014 11:24
"People For Animals" tries to treat an ill stray dog. But in vain! anjan_c2007 Shifting gears 11 15th July 2013 21:05
HM - Mitsubishi goofs up yet again!! GTO The Indian Car Scene 15 29th September 2004 21:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:17.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks