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Old 13th March 2014, 16:38   #31
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by satyaanveshi View Post
I don't agree with the view that traditional Indian diets are "nothing but carbohydrates". Traditional diets include plenty of pulses and vegetables.
Meat has no carbohydrates. Pulses & Vegetables have carbs. Some have less & some have more. A very few pulses & vegetables have low carbs.

If a diabetic eats meat/eggs/fish, he will have almost no increase in blood sugar. If a diabetic eats pulses & vegetables, he will have some increase in blood sugar - depending on the pulse & vegetable, it may be less or more, but there will be an increase in blood sugar.
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Old 13th March 2014, 17:49   #32
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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The fact is that there has been a wholesale increase over the last century or so in the average Indian's sugar consumption. On top of it our lifestyles have become increasingly sedentary. At least in urban India, there are very few people today who properly follow a traditional diet, with plenty of pulses and vegetables and less of sugary beverages.
Let me be very honest here. No diet in the world is perfect. These claims on Indian food being balanced has little foundation.
1 -> Milk protein is difficult if impossible to digest by most adults
2 -> Legumes/Pulses are very bad sources of protein. They contain numerous anti-nutrients, some of which are borderline toxic
3 -> Most food is overcooked
4 -> Very less consumption of Nuts. In essence we over indulge in bad fats and do not ingest good fats. (again mustard/coconut oils are really good oils, but different regions look down upon them)

Every diet similarly has bad things. Its best to pick up bits and pieces that make sense and use them. Its best to know what we eat (we go to such lengths to get good fuel for our cars isnt it). Eating in moderation is wrong. The reason moderation has to be done is because what we eat is wrong. Good food will not make you want to eat more.

The reason people shifted to a more carb based diet is because of frequent droughts in the region.
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Old 13th March 2014, 20:11   #33
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by Mr_Bean View Post
My diet consist of the following:
1.) Meat - Fish, Chicken, Beef, Pork, Mutton cooked with olive oil
2.) Egg - boiled
3.) Fruits - Papaya, Pineapple, Muskmelon, Water melon, Apple
4.) Nuts - Badam, Pistachios, Cashew
5.) Coffee (not paleo :-)) with brown sugar
Don't you think it would be difficult on the body to get all the nutrients/fibre without including Vegetables in the diet?

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Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
Let me be very honest here. No diet in the world is perfect. These claims on Indian food being balanced has little foundation.
1 -> Milk protein is difficult if impossible to digest by most adults
Ah. Again our habit of blindly trusting the west.

What you say is true for Americans. Not for Indians - whose genetic composition is slightly different.

Searched the net to understand where this theory came from, and this is what i found from USA Today:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellnes...ory?id=8450036

Notice the mention of Eupropean and American in the article.


Please read these for more info:

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/hea...cle2436885.ece

http://www.hindu.com/seta/2007/03/22...2200581700.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by satyaanveshi

The fact is that there has been a wholesale increase over the last century or so in the average Indian's sugar consumption. On top of it our lifestyles have become increasingly sedentary. At least in urban India, there are very few people today who properly follow a traditional diet, with plenty of pulses and vegetables and less of sugary beverages

Absolutely agree. The higher prevalence of diabetes in India is due to gradual shift in our food habits towards the western diet of refined/processed food, and not because of traditional Indian diet.
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Old 13th March 2014, 20:33   #34
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

About milk. Milk is not consumed as a source of energy. Its more consumed as a form of protein as Indian diet is protein deficient. Milk protein cannot be digested by most adults as the body drastically reduces and in some case stops synthesis of lactogen. The other reason why we drink milk is calcium. However, milk bleaches more calcium from bone than it actually adds.

Traditional Indian diet is not a balanced diet.

Last edited by zoombiee : 13th March 2014 at 20:34.
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:10   #35
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
About milk. Milk is not consumed as a source of energy. Its more consumed as a form of protein as Indian diet is protein deficient. Milk protein cannot be digested by most adults as the body drastically reduces and in some case stops synthesis of lactogen. The other reason why we drink milk is calcium. However, milk bleaches more calcium from bone than it actually adds.

Traditional Indian diet is not a balanced diet.
This argument is totally baseless. If the above was true all of us Indian vegetarians would have muscle weakness and calcium deficiency once they reach the age of 30. Milk and milk products are major source for protein and calcium in our diet.

Please do your research and substantiate your theory before actually publishing the same.
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:54   #36
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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This argument is totally baseless. If the above was true all of us Indian vegetarians would have muscle weakness and calcium deficiency once they reach the age of 30. Milk and milk products are major source for protein and calcium in our diet.

Please do your research and substantiate your theory before actually publishing the same.
Most vegetarians in general do lack the same quality of muscle that a person with a good protein intake would have. Calcium deficiency is pretty rampant in India.
I have done enough research on this. Milk is net acidic to the body. The kidneys have to compensate this with something alkaline to balance the body's ph. Calcium in the bones is the biggest source of basisity. Hence, consuming copious amounts of milk does not guarantee good bones.
Adults cannot process milk protein, even if they can it is taxing to the body and not normal. There are plenty of easier and healthier sources of protein. available. If vegetarians choose to stick to milk, that doesnt increase the nutritive value of milk. Many people in my family are vegetarians and even I was one for about 3-4 years. Its simply not good nutrition.
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Old 13th March 2014, 23:38   #37
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Don't you think it would be difficult on the body to get all the nutrients/fibre without including Vegetables in the diet?
Meat contains some fibre. And lots of nutrients - far more than in vegetables. But I think a diet with less carbohydrates probably needs lesser fibre.

Last edited by carboy : 13th March 2014 at 23:40.
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Old 13th March 2014, 23:43   #38
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

Let's look at what my favourite philosopher Bruce Lee ate to maintain that kind of physique. Heck, he knew many things we have learned only recently.

http://www.motleyhealth.com/diet-and...bruce-lee-diet

PS: Sorry, he wasn't a vegeterian like many believe.
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Old 14th March 2014, 00:29   #39
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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I have done enough research on this. Milk is net acidic to the body. The kidneys have to compensate this with something alkaline to balance the body's ph. Calcium in the bones is the biggest source of basisity. Hence, consuming copious amounts of milk does not guarantee good bones.
This is exactly what my doctor told. Milk actually draws then calcium then adding to the body.
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Old 14th March 2014, 00:38   #40
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Meat contains some fibre. And lots of nutrients - far more than in vegetables. But I think a diet with less carbohydrates probably needs lesser fibre.
Beef contains some fiber. But even that is negligible.

I am hoping you are not confusing the fibrous appearance of some cuts with dietary fiber.

EDIT: Other meats like chicken and lamb don't have any fiber.

Last edited by bblost : 14th March 2014 at 10:46.
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Old 14th March 2014, 11:46   #41
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Don't you think it would be difficult on the body to get all the nutrients/fibre without including Vegetables in the diet?
Sorry, I missed the vegetable part which forms around 50% of my diet. Thanks for pointing that out.

Vegetables - Broccoli, Spring onions, Iceberg lettuce, Mushrooms, Cabbages, Carrot, French Beans, Spinach, Corn (cultivated though), bell pepper, capsicum all sauted in olive oil and pepper/salt sprinkled over them.

Raw Garlic - 2 each in the morning and night.

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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
You mean this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3281200 (Recipes / Discussions on cooking from Team-BHP Master Chefs)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post2577217 (Recipes / Discussions on cooking from Team-BHP Master Chefs)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3265650 (Recipes / Discussions on cooking from Team-BHP Master Chefs)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3193946 (Recipes / Discussions on cooking from Team-BHP Master Chefs)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3003314 (Recipes / Discussions on cooking from Team-BHP Master Chefs)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post2939780 (Recipes / Discussions on cooking from Team-BHP Master Chefs)


Olive oil is not some magic potion. It is NOT going to be any better unless you are using uncooked extra virgin olive oil.

.
Hmm they look yummy, beef and pork cubes don't need much oil , I completely agree that olive oil loses its properties at high temperature. How about pure home made coconut oil for cooking?

I have been consuming more of fish (pangasius, barracuda) filet's recently, very easy to marinate, can be kept in fridge for longer & take less time to marinate. Read meat would require at least 5-8 whistles in a cooker.

Outside food - Tandoori chicken (hate them nowadays), grilled chicken
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Old 14th March 2014, 14:30   #42
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
About milk. Milk is not consumed as a source of energy. Its more consumed as a form of protein as Indian diet is protein deficient. Milk protein cannot be digested by most adults as the body drastically reduces and in some case stops synthesis of lactogen.
What you are referring to is lactose intolerance caused by insufficiency of lactase (the enzyme required to digest lactose) among adults. But this is not a universal phenomenon. As mentioned in my earlier post, Indians along with Europeans and a few other groups show lactase persistence, the opposite of lactose intolerance.

Of course not all Indians show lactase persistence, but it is widespread enough to have allowed milk to emerge as a major food source in India. Also lactose intolerance is not an either or situation. There are varying levels of lactose intolerance. Some people may be able to digest milk in small quantities. Others may be able to digest yogurt or paneer even if they can't digest milk.

I typically consume 800-1,000 ml of milk a day (about 400 ml directly as milk and the rest as yogurt) in addition to the occasional paneer and have never had any problems. On occasions, I have taken as much as 2 litres of milk (directly) in a day and have been perfectly fine.
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Old 15th March 2014, 17:29   #43
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by satyaanveshi View Post
What you are referring to is lactose intolerance caused by insufficiency of lactase (the enzyme required to digest lactose) among adults. .
I did get you the first time around. Milk is not a good source of carbs. It contains just about 5 gms of carbs per 100 gms. It isnt a good source of fats too. Just about 4 gms per 100 gms consumed. It is an even poor source of protein, containing about 3.2 gms per 100 gms. Its calclium content is also nothing to write home about. Normal water and salmon can provide the same calcium. It does contain a good amount of micro nutrients.

Digesting milk is difficult (atleast the protein part). Add to that it is obtained by injecting the cows with lots of hormones which end up being consumed by us. Milk in India also contains a lot of urea (added as preservatives, as most farmers are devoid of cold storage).
I really fail to understand whats the big deal about milk. It is a food best avoided. Nature meant it to be a food for infants and we should respect the plans of natiure.
Also on your comment on you not feeling the ill effects of drinking milk, I do agree with you. I used to drink a good amount of milk as I was into long distance cycling (thinking of it as a calcium source). I have stopped consuming milk products (except ghee) for a large part of 2 years. There is a perceptible change that I can feel in my gut. I have issues whenever I consume milk now.
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Old 15th March 2014, 17:32   #44
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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Originally Posted by Mr_Bean View Post
I have been consuming more of fish (pangasius, barracuda) filet's recently, very easy to marinate, can be kept in fridge for longer & take less time to marinate. Read meat would require at least 5-8 whistles in a cooker.

Outside food - Tandoori chicken (hate them nowadays), grilled chicken
Barracuda is a fish that contains allergens. So one needs to be careful with it. Its better to stick with Sardines and Salmon.

Last edited by zoombiee : 15th March 2014 at 17:34.
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Old 7th July 2014, 15:54   #45
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Default Re: The great Cholesterol debate: Is it good or bad for you?

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I was actually quite surprised to read this article: ....

#####

BTW, Cholestrol is necessary for normal production of sex hormones. :-)

In addition: don't most of the people die of cardiac arrest actually when they die in their old age naturally in sleep?


Docs of this forum we need some insights into this controversial topic ...
Hi alpha1, happens to be just what I was looking for.

Past year my lipid levels have been inconsistent, they went over 275 then dipped around 240 and this May they crossed 300.

While the ratio is alright, but the LDL and Tris are very high, and apparently put me in moderate risk range.

Now I have reservations starting a Statin right away and hence researched, read up and consulted alternate medicine people.

I must say it's a commendable job done by pharma companies and even daily use product brands that issue of the Heart are not taken lightly.

From Cereal brands to Rice and Oil manufacturers all pitch "heart health".

Suddenly, I found myself noticing such communication more, and more often. More than me, it's my family that is worried about my Lipid profile, thanks to such awareness and awakening.

Anyways, I have decided to start Statins only as a last resort.

What I realized was Sugar is the major culprit, processed foods too. Basically summed up by many on this thread.

Diet through the day needs to ensure minimal or no insulin spike, and to try for an alkaline innard.

Realized fibre, the dietary type is what is most important in ones fight with cholesterol. Both soluble and insoluble types.

Vitamin C is a great tool for fighting cholesterol, and we get inadequate quantities in our diet.

Nuts, Eggs with Yolk etc are all fine, basically dietary cholesterol, ingested has little effect on total cholesterol levels.

The seat of cholesterol production is the Liver, and the fact we have high levels is because the liver is producing it, and correct me if Im wrong - because the body; maybe; needs it.

This here is a simple article: http://www.health.harvard.edu/newswe...holesterol.htm

Here's another: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman...lesterol.shtml

I am still confused at the Triglycerides but basically they are a direct result of diet high in Carbs, specially the simple kind, high sugar intake etc, again plz correct me if I'm wrong.

Ayurveda presents it's solutions for lipid management: Guggul, Lasuna, Arjuna, Turmeric.

While Guggul and Lasuna help in lipid metabolism and regulating cholesterol levels, Arjuna helps circulation and Turmeric for inflammation.

Liver health is key to proper function of our bodies and warm water with Lemon squeezed is best for both cleansing the Liver and has an alkalising effect on the insides, while giving a decent daily dose of Vitamin C.

Ayurveda also has 3 other borderline offerings: Red Yeast Rice, Natural CoQ10 and Omega-3.

All three are debatable in their efficacy again, but I feel they are still a better suited and less harsh alternative to commercial allopathy. Will be trying them for sure.

Red Yeast Rice is basically the precursor to Lovastatin, and while one is a commercial success, the other is a barely known dietary supplement with similar efficacy and probably zero side effects.

Flaxseed in powder form is also good for overall fibre requirement and reducing LDL levels.

Well, that's what I have realized and learnt. Have been off workouts but trying to minimize unnecessary evil intakes of sinful foods, but that's a daunting and uphill task.

Have been off all meats, and only consuming occasional Egg and Fish and increased the colour array in my diet, whilst increasing the 'ghaas-phoos'.

An Apple a day and a cup of Green Tea to get me by.

Other steps taken are a reduction in stress - if it's bound to hit the fan, it will. No point getting toxic about it. Apparently stress levels cause increase in cholesterol levels too.

Needless to say - we all have two Doctors, our left leg and our right leg. physical. Walk/Jog/Run, the best and simplest way to cure most issues. Never been a cardio fan, but trying that too.

Inputs welcome from all, any Statin users who could share experience or insights will help.

Cheers!
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