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Old 17th July 2014, 23:52   #16
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

Sad news.

bbc article with link:

A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (32,000ft) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar.

That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856
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Old 17th July 2014, 23:55   #17
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Default Re: Malaysian Airliner shot down by a missile in Ukraine

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The Russkies can never be trusted!
Why not? we are not USA. Russia was always a friend of India, they never threatened India with sanctions or with their military, unlike USA. There is a reason why our airforce jets and aircraft carriers are from Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E...ssia_relations
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Old 18th July 2014, 00:18   #18
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

Its the separatists. Gifted weapons from Russia
They made a post too saying they shot down AN-26 and a SU, but I think they accidentally shot this down.
Now they are going and deleting all posts about BUK and having anti aircraft capability from their site. But they do not realize, that the internet never forgets
Name:  IMaKN3h.jpg
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Translation
We warned them not to fly in our sky. The birdie fell behind the earth dump, didn't affect inhabited areas. Peaceful civilians were not harmed

Last edited by tsk1979 : 18th July 2014 at 00:20.
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Old 18th July 2014, 00:24   #19
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

Another tragedy for the Malaysian airlines! Very sad for them and even more the families of those that are dead in the crash. Now given that the Black Box is with the rebels, this looks like yet another unsolvable mystery for Malaysian Airlines. I think the Malaysian Airlines should not have allowed flying over that area as it is a well known war zone. Why this carelessness?

Last edited by joe1980 : 18th July 2014 at 00:49.
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Old 18th July 2014, 00:37   #20
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Default Re: Malaysian Airliner shot down by a missile in Ukraine

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Why not? we are not USA. Russia was always a friend of India, they never threatened India with sanctions or with their military, unlike USA. There is a reason why our airforce jets and aircraft carriers are from Russia.
I'll try to keep this as short as possible, Samurai, in order to keep the thread on-topic.

The USSR/Russia merely pretended/pretends to be a friend of India. Regimes like those can never be true friends of any country, for they only seek to extend their power and influence at any cost. They don't care about the genuine welfare of their friendly countries or their peoples. How can they, when those totalitarian regimes give a damn about the well-being of their own people?

It was Nehru's gigantic historical blunder in aligning with the rogue USSR (and yet pretending to be "non-aligned" along with his other Third World chums) that cursed India to a fate of poverty and misery for decades. The only "benefits" were some utterly shoddy military equipment like those "flying coffins" the Indian Air Force is still saddled with. What else could one expect from regimes that peddle nothing but death, destruction, tyranny and total enslavement? One only needs to have a look at how the Russkies prop up mass-murdering tyrants like Assad, Gadafi etc. to know their true intentions.

I don't mean to say the USA is an angel, either. They can be very bad, too. But it would have been much better for India and Indians to have befriended (in the past) and befriend civilised countries now, rather than rogue regimes.

One simple question. How many Indians migrate to or would dream to live in the USA and its Western allies? How many would do the same for Russia and its rogue allies like Cuba, North Korea, Belarus etc.?

There is a reason why they say, "Show me who your friend is, and I'll tell you who you are!"

And I'll end my off-topic rant with that.

Last edited by RSR : 18th July 2014 at 00:40.
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Old 18th July 2014, 00:57   #21
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Another theory I heard on the news is that it maybe an accidental firing. The SAM was meant for a jet which managed to dodge it and the missile locked onto the passenger airline which was close by.
This is the worst of the lot. Two Korean airliners and a Iran airline shot down during the 80's had lesser deaths.
Malaysian airline seems getting in the news for no fault of theirs.
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Old 18th July 2014, 00:59   #22
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Default Re: Malaysian Airliner shot down by a missile in Ukraine

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This can't be a terrorist owned weapon. Who are they kidding?
Glad someone knows exactly what happened. This means we won't have an unsolved mystery like MH370.
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Old 18th July 2014, 01:14   #23
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Default Re: Malaysian Airliner shot down by a missile in Ukraine

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
The USSR/Russia merely pretended/pretends to be a friend of India.
.
.
There is a reason why they say, "Show me who your friend is, and I'll tell you who you are!"
You are equating human friendship with strategic/political friendship between governments. They are entirely different things. Why has US been always friendly to despotic regimes like Iran's Shah (they installed him), Iraq's Saddam, Pakistan's back-to-back dictators, Saudi Arabia, South Vietnam, etc? Because of their common values? Obviously not. It is because they serve mutual interest. Our relationship with Russia/USSR is similar, we know Russia won't hold back military supplies quoting silly reasons, unlike USA.

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How can they, when those totalitarian regimes give a damn about the well-being of their own people?
Explain why USA is friendly to Saudi Arabia, the country that supplied and funded most of the 9/11 terrorists.

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One simple question. How many Indians migrate to or would dream to live in the USA and its Western allies? How many would do the same for Russia and its rogue allies like Cuba, North Korea, Belarus etc.?
Simple answer, people choose friendship differently than governments. Saudi Arabia is a close friend of USA, as far as governments are concerned. Meanwhile, a typical American citizen doesn't share that sentiment.

Coming back to whether we can trust Russians... every country does what is best in their self interest. At least, what they think is in their best interest. Shooting down an innocent airliner is not in any country's best interest. Whoever did it will become an international pariah now.

Last edited by Samurai : 18th July 2014 at 01:15.
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Old 18th July 2014, 03:33   #24
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

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You are equating human friendship with strategic/political friendship between governments. They are entirely different things.
Samurai annavaru, what are governments other than a collection of humans who got themselves into that position and stay there either by good or bad or evil means?

Humans get the governments they deserve (whether democratic or not). By extension, the friendship between governments also tends to reflect on the general character of their peoples (according to "Show me who ... ").

It is no wonder then, that most progressive countries with a high HDI, freedom index, peacefulness index etc. all tend to be friendly towards each other at a governmental level (and at a human level, too), for birds of a feather flock together. And governments of many Third World countries, rogue regimes, tyrannies, dictatorships etc. try to be friends and flock together under the leadership of the big rogues like Russia and China (just like gangsters - the leader of the gang turns out to be the one who has committed the most murders/crimes).

Of course, exceptions are always there, but they only serve to strengthen the rule.

It is up to Indians to choose whom to associate with, for it will influence our destiny in very many ways, as it surely has in the past (from 1950 to 1991).

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Why has US been always friendly to despotic regimes like Iran's Shah (they installed him), Iraq's Saddam, Pakistan's back-to-back dictators, Saudi Arabia, South Vietnam, etc?
That's true indeed but as I mentioned, the government of the USA is no angel by any means.

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Our relationship with Russia/USSR is similar, we know Russia won't hold back military supplies quoting silly reasons, unlike USA.
Why then, did the Soviet commies hold back their "flying coffin" supplies to India at the time of the India-China war? Was it because the Indian government was merely a pseudo-commie one (in their eyes) as opposed to the PRC (the real commies)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Explain why USA is friendly to Saudi Arabia, the country that supplied and funded most of the 9/11 terrorists.
I hate the mediŠval Saudi despots for many reasons, but those 9/11 fellows being Saudi by nationality does not necessarily equate to the Saudi regime sponsoring them. Just like we have a few Indian nationals (and those from other countries too) fighting both for and against ISIL/ISIS (now just "Islamic State") in both Iraq and Syria.

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Simple answer, people choose friendship differently than governments. Saudi Arabia is a close friend of USA, as far as governments are concerned.
This can be considered as one of the exceptions to the rule. The regressive Saudi regime and Uncle Sam do make for very strange bedfellows indeed.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Meanwhile, a typical American citizen doesn't share that sentiment.
This is very telling. It means the typical ordinary American is perfectly happy with the friendship between the American government and those of the UK, France, Germany, other EU countries, non-EU Western European countries, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand etc. for they belong to his/her natural flock of like minded people.

But he/she hates the un-natural, wholly artificial, superficial and unholy friendship between Uncle Sam and Saudi Arabia because their values (as peoples) are diametrically opposite in many areas.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Shooting down an innocent airliner is not in any country's best interest. Whoever did it will become an international pariah now.
Sadly, Samurai-san, power and money speak much louder than ethics and righteousness in this world. What is the worth of a mere 295 human lives to regimes? When they can butcher hundreds of thousands in cold blood (as has happened in the past and is happening right now) to hold on to or expand their power, and can not only get away with it but also get hailed as "heroes" (opposing the "hegemony" of the "West", "containing communism" and the like), murdering 295 innocents is nothing to them.

It has happened more than once before, and it has happened again today. Nothing will change, no one will be held responsible, nobody will become a pariah. And therein lies the biggest human tragedy, of letting governments (of any kind) become unaccountable to humans.

Last edited by RSR : 18th July 2014 at 03:51.
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Old 18th July 2014, 04:36   #25
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Unhappy Nationalities of passengers on board MH17

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Of the 295 people on board the ill-fated aircraft, 154 people were Dutch, 27 were Australians, 23 were Malaysians, 11 were Indonesian, 6 were from the United Kingdom, 4 were from Germany, 4 were from Belgium, and 3 were from the Philippines.

The nationalities of the others on board are yet to be confirmed.
Source: nationalpost.com

This is very tragic and shocking! They did nothing to deserve this and only happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Airlines from other countries should immediately stop their planes from using the airspace of countries going through a war or war-like situation, such as Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Israel/Palestine etc. for the safety of their passengers and crew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its the separatists. Gifted weapons from Russia
They made a post too saying they shot down AN-26 and a SU, but I think they accidentally shot this down.
Now they are going and deleting all posts about BUK and having anti aircraft capability from their site. But they do not realize, that the internet never forgets

Translation
We warned them not to fly in our sky. The birdie fell behind the earth dump, didn't affect inhabited areas. Peaceful civilians were not harmed
So the Russkie mass murderers have been caught red-handed, boasting of their detestable deed!

The Kremlin propaganda machine is surely going to spin into overdrive now, and spew out naked lies through its agents like RT, Press TV etc.

It would be interesting to see the wild twists, spins, half-truths and blatant lies carried by the shamelessly pro-Russkie, pro-commie, pro-tyranny media outlets in India - especially one particular newspaper group with its HQ in Chennai.

Last edited by RSR : 18th July 2014 at 04:56.
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Old 18th July 2014, 08:10   #26
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

Wonder how these senseless people who did it must be treated. They have no right to shoot down a plane that has nothing to do with their unrest. Jumping the gun isnt the right thing to do here.

Politically, this seems to be more severe a complication compared to MH370. At least this time I hope they bring justice to the families of the dead and teach whoever did this some lessons in life.
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Old 18th July 2014, 08:33   #27
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its the separatists. Gifted weapons from Russia
They made a post too saying they shot down AN-26 and a SU, but I think they accidentally shot this down.
Now they are going and deleting all posts about BUK and having anti aircraft capability from their site. But they do not realize, that the internet never forgets
Attachment 1263063

Translation
We warned them not to fly in our sky. The birdie fell behind the earth dump, didn't affect inhabited areas. Peaceful civilians were not harmed
I hope they find this chap and punish him.
The Russians are to be blamed as well for supplying them such advanced weapons. What gives the Russians the right to interfere in Ukraine's affairs, specially targeting Ukraine Air Force transport planes and fighters operating in Ukrainian air space. Some idiot thought MH17 was a Ukrainian plane and gave the order to shoot it down. Hope the black box does not fall into the hands of the Russians else they will keep it hidden like KAL 007's black box.
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Old 18th July 2014, 08:46   #28
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Default Re: Nationalities of passengers on board MH17

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Airlines from other countries should immediately stop their planes from using the airspace of countries going through a war or war-like situation, such as Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Israel/Palestine etc. for the safety of their passengers and crew.

.
They have, airline routes have now moved east of this area

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Old 18th July 2014, 08:53   #29
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

A passenger posted this on Facebook right before he boarded Malaysia Airlines MH17, "If it disappears, this is what it looks like."

Name:  fvGcpkS.jpg
Views: 842
Size:  32.0 KB

(Source: Imgur)

:(

May the departed souls R.I.P.

EDIT: Recording released by Security Service of Ukraine Intercepted phone call, said to be between rebels discussing which rebel militant group shot down the aircraft and initial reports it was a civilian aircraft.



Source: Reddit

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 18th July 2014 at 08:57.
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Old 18th July 2014, 09:08   #30
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Default Re: Malaysian Airlines MH17 shot down by a missile in Ukraine

Great loss of human life and a truly sad incident. My prayers for the affected families.

Not to justify any side, both the Soviet and the US are not saints when it comes to shooting down civilian aircrafts. Korean air 007 and Iran air 655 are classic examples. But given the circumstances, I would say that US is one step ahead. Thinking that a climbing A300 is a diving F14 Tomcat (with all their technology, they can't even identify a fighter which was built by them?) in broad daylight and awarding the crew, medals for their valiant action of killing civilians (I know that the medals were awarded saying that it was for the whole period, but who are they trying to fool?).
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