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Old 19th August 2006, 11:25   #61
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Just watched the news - Delhi - Another underage accident - this time the guy on a motorcycle who was hit - did not survive. I dont remember what car the youngster was driving but it was a high speed accident again.

And after 14 hours - no arrests and the cops havent been able to impound the car as well.

Last edited by normally_crazy : 19th August 2006 at 14:46.
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Old 19th August 2006, 12:15   #62
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These things will go on happening. No one will take any real action. We will write pages on our forums; we will deride the reckless drivers and the police and we will wish the victims a speedy recovery, and then a couple of days later, a similar accident will happen. If the victim happens to be a big shot, a national figure, the matter may linger on for a while longer, but everything will eventually return to normal.
As long as you can get away with crime by bribing someone, there will be no change. We talk of bank loans being sanctioned, or building plans being approved, or Income Tax demands being quashed by filling the right pockets. There is an approved way of doing something, and there is the shortcut. We make it a habit of giving for "chai pani" and now we have made it the rule. The next step after all this petty civil stuff is to try the power of the paisa in criminal stuff. So why are we complaining now? When the traffic cop stops us for breaking the red light, do we not try to get away by paying him fifty bucks? An offence is an offence. A rich guy can buy someone for five thousand, five lacs or more. Bigger offence, bigger packet. The equation is simple. Money is power. Its more powerful than the law. Greed is stronger than righteousness. And we are fast establishing it that way.
Wow, that seems like a lot of preaching, but I guess many of you will agree with me.
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Old 19th August 2006, 13:04   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1

Even I started driving at the age of four,
Isn't 4 years too late for tricycles ?

My son also drives cars at the age of 2.5, but he clearly knows what he is driving is remote controlled tiny model cars..and not the real cars under discussion here, which can kill people..

If you really drove a real car at 4, how did you reach the accelerator, brake , clutch and possibly gearshift? or you must have been a really TAAALLLLLL kid for your age !!
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Old 19th August 2006, 13:54   #64
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@prabuddhag : we usually take the simpler route of chai pani as the right approved route is too long and complicated, and when its not then the govt officials make it complicated.

btw, i was asked to hand over my driving permit a few days back for having my car standing in a no-parking zone. The main cop in the van said he was sent by the control room, bla bla bla. i then handed him a 100 rs. note as fine for the offence (not bribe mind you). Cop took the note and kept muttering some stuff while i waited for a receipt. After 2-3 minutes he gives the note back, and asks me to give some chai-pani instead, the guy took 20 bucks and off he went to tell some other person that the he was asked to visit the place immediately by the control room.

manson.

Last edited by manson : 19th August 2006 at 13:57.
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Old 19th August 2006, 15:24   #65
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[quote=veyron1]

and thankfully, none of my cars have even had a scratch, while being driven.

QUOTE]

Hey, Sorry to rub it in ... but I think you might want to change that now !!

As for this thread, I see everyone feeling sorry for the cycle guy and lambasting the kid who was driving ... Well, I agree that the kid should be punished and that the cucle wallah recovers -- But has anyone of you ever experienced a dude on a cycle crashing into you at 5kmph + .. or suddenly swerving in front of your vehicle at a point where there is SIMPLY NOTHING you can do -- ???

Its very easy to say ' poor cycle wallah ' but there is another thread somewhere in which another member had to run from the site of a lil accident where some drunk guy on a two wheeler hit him . What if this cycle guy came onto the road from the divider .. and on this particular stretch you arn't supposed to do that !!!

Its India ... a poor man on a cycle can be as much at fault as a guy doing 200 kmph in his huge car -- but it doesnt neccesarily mean that it was the fault of the guy with the Big Car !!! Like they say ... the super rich and the super poor can get away with a lot in this country ....

As for the lil kids attempt to run away ... thats a natural reaction any human being faces !! That means he knew that he was wrong and would get into trouble .. Spoilt is like the incident in Gurgaon where even after being at fault and hitting the guard they had the bloody audacity to start beating him up instead of rushing him to the hospital --- That kind of act needs a harsh punishment .

Cheers

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Old 19th August 2006, 16:21   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manson
Cop took the note and kept muttering some stuff while i waited for a receipt. After 2-3 minutes he gives the note back, and asks me to give some chai-pani instead, the guy took 20 bucks and off he went to tell some other person that the he was asked to visit the place immediately by the control room.

manson.
A friend of mine actually keeps 20 bucks in his driver's licence just so that the poor police man does not have to get into a complicated situation you so unthinkingly put him into.
If more people took your route not only in driving, but in other officialdom controlled activities too, the whole picture of the country's morality would probably change.
I think today is not my day at all. Whatever I write seems to turn out sermonish.
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Old 19th August 2006, 16:49   #67
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@prabuddhag: the above mentioned incident was a one off case.
but i do insist on paying a complete fine for these small offences as it doesnt hurt the pocket all that much and the govt. also manages to collect some revenue rather than paying 50 bucks which will be regarded as black money and be lost in the system. ohh yea, if its 10-20 bucks instead then i wouldn't mind . .
so i'm surely not one of those examples that could be set for moral issues, its just my viewpoint varying with the amount of money i'd have to pay.

manson.

Last edited by manson : 19th August 2006 at 16:59.
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Old 19th August 2006, 19:11   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autopsyche
Actually for all those doubting it, its very easy to do 200kph on the road the kid was on. I have seen lots of my friends do that too, its a straight 3km 6 lane empty stretch.

Dont know how far the media reports are true, 200kph was the figure given by the eyewitness.. even if the accord was doing 160-180 (very easy on that road even for a novice) it could be mistaken to be fast enough to be assumed as 200kph.

furioussphinx: thas news to me! Ill try to find out who this 'white skoda wallah'
its easy to do high speeds on this road. And you know what else happens on that road very often? Kids (underage, maybe the same bunch who knows?) drink beer and then throw the bottles out of the car while doing high speeds.........gives them a big kick to hear & see the bottles shatter. Can you imagine the plight of passersby or other cars? The cops are indifferent to this, I know a colleague of mine who was on abike, saw this, reported to the next PCR he saw.....and they did nothing
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Old 20th August 2006, 11:38   #69
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This thread is going off-topic, let's not discuss veyron1's driving history anymore on this thread.
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Old 20th August 2006, 12:39   #70
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I've been reading this post and the general opinion seems to be that Rich Kids and Rich parents are to be blamed for being irresponsilbe!!!
Lets just take a step back and see the whole big picture.... India is the best example of putting the cart before the horse!! We have grown so rapidly that our basic systems are still not in place. We have fast cars but no roads that can take those speeds. We have a judicial and policing system which is flawed. We have people who are not educated about how to use something but are using them. I've seen trucks, cars, two wheelers and bullock carts being travelling the wrong direction on High-ways. City traffic conditions are pathetic.. no one understands how to drive and accidents whether small or big are bound to happen! We should all be lucky on a day to day basis to drive and get back home safe!

Let me ask you all one question... how many of us have always driven under the so-called speed limits in our country? Haven't each one of us driven our cars faster than we should in many places? You might say that the speed was 40Kmph and you were driving only at 60 or 70Kmph, but still you were faster than you should've been and you can't say that just because you never hit anyone or met with an accident your speeds are acceptable or that you are a responsible driver. Murphy's law applies to everyone!

The accident we are discussing about is bad and I pity the milk-man. But the onus of such an accident is not just with the kid or his family. Yes responsible parenting can help, but the root cause to lies eleswhere!

First correct the judicial system... make it stricter. If some one commits a crime give him a public punishment. Let everyone see what happens if you commit a crime. Corruption should call for capital punishment, hang them! Do this once or twice and see how things change. People will then think twice before they do something stupid! Enough of being compassionate... many people do not deserve it! I might sound harsh, but the best medicines are always bitter!
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Old 20th August 2006, 12:56   #71
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Hey Madhav, I agree with most of what you said. But...

1. The kid was underage and had no licence.

2. He was driving at close to 200 km/h, which is illegal even in countries with the best laws and infrastructure etc etc.

Therefore, the responsibility is solely his and his family's.
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Old 20th August 2006, 13:35   #72
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Cyclewallahs jump in front of cars and motorcycles everyday. Somewhere, someplace, a cyclewallah is jumping in front of some driver right now. But like Khaadu said, here in India, the guy with the bigger vehicle is ALWAYS at fault. A cyclewallh, coming from the wrong direction, jumped in front of John's R1. Media and everybody else blamed John. Irresponsible rider, and all that. There were quite a few cases like the ones mentioned here.

The way I see it, both of them are at fault. The kid for driving at such speeds (and the family for not being there to guide him), and the cyclewallah for his irresponsible riding. If, like autopsyche says, people REGULARLY do 200 Kmph+ on these roads, why did this accident have to happen to just this kid? It could have been a 40 year old rice-racer too. Sheer luck. That's it.

Cyclists ram into cars and bikes at even 5kmph. Luckily no-one gets injured, and even though it might have been the cyclists' fault, he still manages to escape after extracting some fine from the driver, because the cyclist is the smaller guy.

Our cops always favour the "smaller guy", even though he might be at fault. They figure, hey, the bigger vehicle-owner must be rich, so he should pay. Agree with madhav here. The system by itself is pretty wronged. We have to look at both sides of the coin. If there are traffic rules for automobiles, why not for cyclists and pedestrians?
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Old 21st August 2006, 19:36   #73
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I don't know why all this sermonizing is going on about the rich being made scapegoats etc.

If he was driving (at 200 kmph), and doesn't have a valid DL, he bloody well face whatever consequences.

It's all fine to say you can control a car at whatever age, be it 4 or 6 or 17 years and 364 days, but until you are in the clear legally, your "control" and your parents' complicity in the situation counts for squat in the eyes of the law, and people like me.

I'm not sorry if I sound harsh, and if I offended someone, good. Maybe this will snap them out of their world of indulgent parents and money that covers wrongs. Because I certainly didn't grow up in such a world, and I have seen the consequences of a child gone wild.
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Old 21st August 2006, 20:03   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1

1. Cyclewallahs jump in front of cars and motorcycles everyday.

The way I see it, both of them are at fault. The kid for driving at such speeds (and the family for not being there to guide him), and the cyclewallah for his irresponsible riding.

2. If, like autopsyche says, people REGULARLY do 200 Kmph+ on these roads, why did this accident have to happen to just this kid? It could have been a 40 year old rice-racer too. Sheer luck. That's it.

3. Cyclists ram into cars and bikes at even 5kmph. Luckily no-one gets injured, and even though it might have been the cyclists' fault, he still manages to escape after extracting some fine from the driver, because the cyclist is the smaller guy.

4.Our cops always favour the "smaller guy", even though he might be at fault. They figure, hey, the bigger vehicle-owner must be rich, so he should pay.

5.If there are traffic rules for automobiles, why not for cyclists and pedestrians?
1. Where is it mentioned that this cyclewallah jumped in front of the car ? The original news item linked says the car rammed into the cycle. Even cycle wallas have a life of theri own..jumping in front of speeding cars comes way down in their priorities

3. The assumption that every cyclist is out to extract money from the car owner is pathetic and sweeping to say the least.

4. The same "favour the small guy" rule is used when a car is hit by a Bus, Lorry or minitruck. Haven't seen many people protesting against that.

5. There are rules for cyclists and pedestrians as well. Just as most car drivers tend to break rules, most pedestrians also break them. But that hardly justifies killing them. Will you hang some one for jumping a red light ?

Last edited by Samurai : 21st August 2006 at 20:39.
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Old 21st August 2006, 20:17   #75
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@v1p3r... you are absolutely right.

But I think we should start looking at this incident as an accident.... and look at the fact that he is underage only if the accident is because of his inexperience.

Though he should be punished for both things (underage and crashing) ... both should not be coupled unless there is a strong correlation between them.

Also, I seriously believe that it was not 200km/h not even close to that. At 200kmph even the accord guy would have struggled to survive a crash... leave alone the milkman.

Also, if the milkman recovers all fine... do you still want to put guy's parents in JAIL.. (minors don't get punished)

PS: I started driving at 18+.. don't bomb me.
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