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Old 14th August 2015, 14:51   #316
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

This is IMPORTANT!

Register and log on to https://mygov.in/ and post for net neutrality and tomorrow is the last day! Site is slow so please be patient but do this.



You can post the following.

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We want net neutrality in the real sense, not watered down by telcos. Want access everything and not select part of the internet, for all the people and all the while.

Do NOT want telcos controlling what we access, charge differently for different websites.

Do not want licenses for Whatsapp, Viber or any other app that we use.
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Old 14th August 2015, 18:44   #317
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

https://mygov.in/group-issue/give-yo...et-neutrality/ is the link. Please sign up and post. I can't confirm whether my post has worked but I'm trying.

Here's how you confirm posting success - go to https://mygov.in/mypage/ after posting. it will show your recent activity. Other than that, there's no way to see comments. Currently every minute scores of responses are pouring in and the site is really slow.

Last edited by phamilyman : 14th August 2015 at 19:09.
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Old 14th August 2015, 19:11   #318
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

The site is painfully slow in saving the comments. I have tried twice unsuccessfully. Will keep trying until I can post my opinion.
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Old 17th August 2015, 15:09   #319
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

Just filled up my comments into the section and I used my mobile OTP for all the transactions. At this time 3 PM IST , the site was pretty fast and I faced no issues in getting my comments registered. As a web developer , I found the UI nice and refreshingly different from other PSU/Govt UI's :-).
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Old 19th August 2015, 13:06   #320
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

I'm not an expert in understanding telecom / network related technological aspects, nor can I use correct phrases of the telecom sector. However I've some questions. They may sound very raw to the experts, but still I will ask.
  • Whether the internet that I used for the last 4 or 5 years (since the usage of smartphones increased manifold) was neutral?
  • Is there any machinery at our disposal, to gauge the actual speed of our internet connection? i.e. whether the speed of opening a flipkart page and an amazon page on a Airtel 3G at 11am of 19/08/2015 is one and the same?
  • If there is no such machinery, then how can one claim or accuse that net is neutral or not?
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Old 19th August 2015, 17:33   #321
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
I'm not an expert in understanding telecom / network related technological aspects, nor can I use correct phrases of the telecom sector. However I've some questions. They may sound very raw to the experts, but still I will ask.
  • Whether the internet that I used for the last 4 or 5 years (since the usage of smartphones increased manifold) was neutral?
  • Is there any machinery at our disposal, to gauge the actual speed of our internet connection? i.e. whether the speed of opening a flipkart page and an amazon page on a Airtel 3G at 11am of 19/08/2015 is one and the same?
  • If there is no such machinery, then how can one claim or accuse that net is neutral or not?
Your questions are very much valid, I will answer whatever is within my knowledge.

1. So far yes, all these years internet was more or less neutral.
2.There are a few applications that will allow you to test the speed of your internet connection (speedtest.net). May be you can do a ping test and check the latency of your network.
3.Well, our ISP's and telecom companies will have an agreement with certain websites to provide higher network speeds compared to other sites.Our aim is to prevent this from happening. We want all sites to open with equal speeds.
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Old 19th August 2015, 18:11   #322
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Originally Posted by girimajiananth View Post
3.Well, our ISP's and telecom companies will have an agreement with certain websites to provide higher network speeds compared to other sites.Our aim is to prevent this from happening. We want all sites to open with equal speeds.
In a scenario when a flipkart ties up with Airtel to provide flipkart for free to users who do not have a data plan, Amazon, the competitor of flipkart, can always prove this to the satisfaction of the M R T P Commission as a malpractice. That way of redressing the grievance is always open to Amazon and the like. Airtel (any other telecom company at that) can be brought into the picture only if it is proved that it was tinkering with the speeds of data transmission in favor of flipkart.
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Old 17th December 2015, 14:55   #323
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

Today morning I woke up and found a petition sent from my aunt via FB. I clicked on the link, it took me to a form filled with my name with an option to forward the form to all on my FB friend list.

Knowing my aunt is an Internet newbie, I started reading instead of just clicking. I also noticed that many of my relatives who were on her FB friend list had already signed it.

It was a very cleverly written petition to suppress net neutrality!!!

Oh, man... what a scam. I am sure thousands are falling for this and signing it thinking they are saving free Internet. Please warn your friends and family. This is a very ugly sneak attack to kill net neutrality.

The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet-chrome-legacy-window-12172015-24608-pm.bmp.jpg
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Old 17th December 2015, 16:25   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Today morning I woke up and found a petition sent from my aunt via FB. I clicked on the link, it took me to a form filled with my name with an option to forward the form to all on my FB friend list.

Knowing my aunt is an Internet newbie, I started reading instead of just clicking. I also noticed that many of my relatives who were on her FB friend list had already signed it.

It was a very cleverly written petition to suppress net neutrality!!!

Oh, man... what a scam. I am sure thousands are falling for this and signing it thinking they are saving free Internet. Please warn your friends and family. This is a very ugly sneak attack to kill net neutrality.

Attachment 1451087
The way they've positioned it, it does appear that a small band of vocal critics is opposing free net access to basic services. Very sneaky indeed. Good catch.
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Old 17th December 2015, 17:30   #325
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
I'm not an expert in understanding telecom / network related technological aspects, nor can I use correct phrases of the telecom sector. However I've some questions. They may sound very raw to the experts, but still I will ask.
  • Whether the internet that I used for the last 4 or 5 years (since the usage of smartphones increased manifold) was neutral?
  • Is there any machinery at our disposal, to gauge the actual speed of our internet connection? i.e. whether the speed of opening a flipkart page and an amazon page on a Airtel 3G at 11am of 19/08/2015 is one and the same?
  • If there is no such machinery, then how can one claim or accuse that net is neutral or not?
1. Though lot of us would love to believe that we've had a neutral internet so far, I am afraid to bust the bubble. We have not had a neutral internet. There have been many sites (e.g. piracy, porn, sites contrary to India's political stands etc) that have been banned by Govt or sometimes a few ISPs on their own or perhaps slowed/throttled all over India, while at the same time many ISPs have not done any such thing (even after Govt pressures) - so there was never a uniformity in neutrality.

2. No there is no such official website/gadget/machinery certified by the Department of Telecom. So the results will always be disputable.

3. Hah! HaHa! (if you've watched Jeremy Brett in Shelock Holmes-Granada TV series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I also noticed that many of my relatives who were on her FB friend list had already signed it.

It was a very cleverly written petition to suppress net neutrality!!!

Oh, man... what a scam. I am sure thousands are falling for this and signing it thinking they are saving free Internet. Please warn your friends and family. This is a very ugly sneak attack to kill net neutrality.

Oh well, this is perfectly the way general democracy works

Last edited by alpha1 : 17th December 2015 at 17:32.
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Old 17th December 2015, 17:52   #326
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

The main trouble is most people don't understand net neutrality and how it will affect them. So it is easy to fool them with clever language.

Earlier in this thread, I had tried to explain net neutrality in a very simple way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Businesses and Customers are connected to each other via Internet. It is these two parties who should decide whether they want to do business together. The ISP is just a guy who maintains the pipe between them for a price. He shouldn't poke his nose in between and favour one over the other.
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Old 17th December 2015, 18:38   #327
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Businesses and Customers are connected to each other via Internet. It is these two parties who should decide whether they want to do business together. The ISP is just a guy who maintains the pipe between them for a price. He shouldn't poke his nose in between and favour one over the other.
That's where the problem (I think) is. We don't have precise machinery to verify whether net it neutral or geared.

However if we develop it, and in case the net neutrality is violated, and the violation is unearthed, how can one held the ISP responsible for that? The business (e-Commerce website 'A') may have approached the ISP to favor it over its competitor business (e-Commerce website 'B'), for some extra reward, and the ISP may have agreed to do so for earning that extra reward, as the ISP is here to earn profit. If customers adjudge that an XYZ ISP is violating net neutrality, they're free to terminate the services of that ISP.

And as far as e-Commerce website 'A' is concerned, it will be said to have been involved in an unfair trade practice, and can be brought to justice by invoking the M.R.T.P Law. The main motivator in this, is the business and not the ISP.

*I may be completely or partially wrong, or incorrect in understanding and/or analyzing this concept.
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Old 17th December 2015, 20:56   #328
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Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
That's where the problem (I think) is. We don't have precise machinery to verify whether net it neutral or geared.
.
.
*I may be completely or partially wrong, or incorrect in understanding and/or analyzing this concept.
No, you don't need all these machinery. It is really simple, no need to complicate things like this.

Right now, we don't have complete net neutrality because it is bit of a wild west. Consider helmet rule for example. There are still lots of places where there is no law about wearing helmets while riding.

When there is no helmet law:
1) Some wear helmet because it is good.
2) Some don't wear helmet because of whatever reason. They might receive some flak from friends and relatives.

Similarly, some ISPs may be favouring some websites through agreements, etc. But they can't afford to say flipkart access will be free and Amazon.in access will be charged. There is no law to stop them from doing it, but the backlash they received on social media forced them to drop the whole plan. Right now it is bad of PR to reveal an ISP is not neutral. Just like not wearing helmet may receive some frowns.

If net neutrality is made as the law, it can be easily enforced via auditing. Not by engineers, by plain accountants. You can't make an agreement that violates any law. Without legal agreements, there is no money exchange, no point favoring one website over other. This is what is scaring ISPs and large websites like FB to no end. That is why they are resorting to sneaky ways to block net neutrality law at any cost.

However, if they pass a law favoring differential pricing, it is the opposite of net neutrality. It hugely benefits well established websites to keep their monopoly by offering free access by paying off ISPs. Newer players with low budgets won't be able to compete since they can't pay ISPs to enable free access. This will enable Airtel to say Flipkart/FB access will be free and whatsapp much more expensive. Since FB doesn't make money on whatsapp, they won't care either. After a while whole lot of consumers will get hooked to free access and drop all data plans. That means they will only visit websites that are made free via Airtel. Then Airtel will dictate what websites you will visit.

Example:
You: Hello Ramesh, I have launched a website for my new business. Why don't you check it out?
Ramesh: Is it free on Airtel?
You: Ugh, no. They said I have to pay ₹10000/month to provide free access. I can't afford that.
Ramesh: Oh sorry, I don't have any data plans. So I can't visit your website if it is not free.
You:

Let's say you finally pay Airtel their hafta. Ramesh can finally see it. Next you meet Suresh.

You: Hello Suresh, I have launched a website for my new business. Why don't you check it out?
Suresh: Is it free on Vodafone?
You: Ugh, no. They said I have to pay ₹10000/month... Oh, somebody kill me.
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Old 17th December 2015, 20:58   #329
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I think we can test the websites loading time from different locations and ISPs. From timing using a stopwatch to some software, it's certainly doable. Also some sites can monitor a certain site ( I use a free one to check a website I made) for latency, ping, and load times from different locations.

Also, we can check using some proxy and see if ISP reduces traffic or not.
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Old 17th December 2015, 22:00   #330
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Did any one of you notice that Facebook has now come up with a 'free basics program '.. is it not the 'internet.org ' packed in a new box ? The way they are marketing it .. I believe many will people for fall for it and coz of this net neutrality is at threat! They are showcasing it as 'digital equality in India ' and are asking people to signup to send a message to TRAI.
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