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Old 4th January 2016, 15:06   #361
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

Facebook is doing a lot of false advertizing. Free is never free, there is always some some hidden costs. True, but...

Is this the first time somebody is doing this? Colgate says that their toothpasts have "cooling crystals". Horlicks says that they contain growth proties that make kids "taller, stronger sharper". Nobody asks for a ban. We just let people choose wisely. Did all other health drinks vanish just because Horlicks did some false advertising?

What I read as arguments against "free basics", is just fear mongering in the lines of "they will come and kill us all". Straight from grandma stories used to prevent kids from being naughty. Why do we think that people are not mature enough to decide what is good for them? Why do people think that they know better than everybody else to decide what is good/bad for them?

And if Facebook succeeds in fooling customers, I say, no big deal. This is not the frst time, and would not be the last.
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:20   #362
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Facebook is doing ---------SNIP----- last.

Like samurai quoted, if its free for you, then you're the product, not the consumer.
The horlicks and colgate analogy does not apply.
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:21   #363
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Facebook is doing a lot of false advertizing. Free is never free, there is always some some hidden costs. True, but...

Is this the first time somebody is doing this? Colgate says that their toothpasts have "cooling crystals". Horlicks says that they contain growth proties that make kids "taller, stronger sharper". Nobody asks for a ban. We just let people choose wisely. Did all other health drinks vanish just because Horlicks did some false advertising?

What I read as arguments against "free basics", is just fear mongering in the lines of "they will come and kill us all". Straight from grandma stories used to prevent kids from being naughty. Why do we think that people are not mature enough to decide what is good for them? Why do people think that they know better than everybody else to decide what is good/bad for them?

And if Facebook succeeds in fooling customers, I say, no big deal. This is not the frst time, and would not be the last.
IF facebook is interested in connecting the villages, why not pay for 2 Gb for tier 2 cities and villages, and 1 gb for tier 1 cities. That way it becomes like open source and everybody can use it as they want.

With regards to the other ads, they are created only in countries like India Let them try doing the same thing in Europe or US, they will be asked to be removed and could land them in claims/ cases. I am not sure if it was horlick or some other health drink ad got into issues after complaints. They then made a press statement that the ad was created for India and was accidentally released in London. That explains how the ads are insensitive if the public dont complain!!
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:33   #364
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post

What I read as arguments against "free basics", is just fear mongering in the lines of "they will come and kill us all". Straight from grandma stories used to prevent kids from being naughty. Why do we think that people are not mature enough to decide what is good for them? Why do people think that they know better than everybody else to decide what is good/bad for them?

And if Facebook succeeds in fooling customers, I say, no big deal. This is not the frst time, and would not be the last.
So, if its not the first time that someone is fooling or misleading investors, should we just ignore this?

We know that they have a vested interest and they are misleading the public, so why should we not oppose this nonsense?

Its when the decent folks sit quietly that these jerks get the nerve to cheat us.

Freebasics is nothing but a scam, and their full page advertisements are nothing but a bunch of lies.
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Old 4th January 2016, 16:08   #365
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

I think Facebook or Reliance should be asked to come out with resources that they are setting aside for this exercise. That would tell us the investments that they are making for this venture.

This is akin to some kind of missionary activity trying to give something to the poor.
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Old 4th January 2016, 17:47   #366
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by raghu.t.k View Post
IF facebook is interested in connecting the villages, why not pay for 2 Gb for tier 2 cities and villages, and 1 gb for tier 1 cities. That way it becomes like open source and everybody can use it as they want.
Its their business model.

Quote:
With regards to the other ads, they are created only in countries like India Let them try doing the same thing in Europe or US, they will be asked to be removed and could land them in claims/ cases. I am not sure if it was horlick or some other health drink ad got into issues after complaints. They then made a press statement that the ad was created for India and was accidentally released in London. That explains how the ads are insensitive if the public dont complain!!
Different countries, different products. Do you get the same Swift that is sold in Europe?
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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post

Like samurai quoted, if its free for you, then you're the product, not the consumer.
The horlicks and colgate analogy does not apply.
Opinion!
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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
So, if its not the first time that someone is fooling or misleading investors, should we just ignore this?
Shouldn't you just let the customer decide?
Quote:
We know that they have a vested interest and they are misleading the public, so why should we not oppose this nonsense?
Nothing wrong in having a "vested" interest. Shouldn't people who don't see it as a nonsense have their say too?
Quote:
Its when the decent folks sit quietly that these jerks get the nerve to cheat us.
Thats elitism. Who decides who is decent and who is not?
Quote:
Freebasics is nothing but a scam, and their full page advertisements are nothing but a bunch of lies.
Welcome to the world!
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Old 4th January 2016, 17:54   #367
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post

Shouldn't you just let the customer decide?

Nothing wrong in having a "vested" interest. Shouldn't people who don't see it as a nonsense have their say too?

Thats elitism. Who decides who is decent and who is not?

Welcome to the world!
You're free to defend their stance, just as we're free to criticise them.

Why do you then get so defensive if there is some resistance or criticism from the Indian public? Do you have a vested interest that we're not aware of?

And if this is FB's business model, then why can't they just be honest and come clean with it, instead of hiding behind supposedly altruistic reasons?

Fact is that FB is spending a whole lot of money trying to re-open a closed topic, and we are not going to let them get away so easily.

You of course are free to continue your strident defence of this farce.
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Old 4th January 2016, 18:04   #368
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
You're free to defend their stance, just as we're free to criticise them.
Difference, is you don't want me to choose what I want. You think you know what is good for me.
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Why do you then get so defensive if there is some resistance or criticism from the Indian public? Do you have a vested interest that we're not aware of?
Ad hominem! BTW, I would like to have a free basics account in my phone. I don't care about all the 1 billion websites when I am on the mobile.
Quote:
And if this is FB's business model, then why can't they just be honest and come clean with it, instead of hiding behind supposedly altruistic reasons?
Answer is there in my first post.
Quote:
Fact is that FB is spending a whole lot of money trying to re-open a closed topic, and we are not going to let them get away so easily.
Please don't confuse between a fact and an opionion.
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You of course are free to continue your strident defence of this farce.
Free country?
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Old 4th January 2016, 18:27   #369
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Difference, is you don't want me to choose what I want. You think you know what is good for me.

Ad hominem! BTW, I would like to have a free basics account in my phone. I don't care about all the 1 billion websites when I am on the mobile.
No, I definitely dont think that I know what is good for you. If a man driving a Civic wants a FreeBasic account on his mobile phone, then I surely cannot fathom the thought process of such a person. You're an enigma to me.

And Btw, I have not launched a personal attack on you, so please dont use "Ad Hominem" without understanding its meaning. I merely asked you if you have a vested interest, since I cannot fathom your thought process.
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Old 4th January 2016, 18:49   #370
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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No, I definitely dont think that I know what is good for you. If a man driving a Civic wants a FreeBasic account on his mobile phone, then I surely cannot fathom the thought process of such a person. You're an enigma to me.

And Btw, I have not launched a personal attack on you, so please dont use "Ad Hominem" without understanding its meaning. I merely asked you if you have a vested interest, since I cannot fathom your thought process.
Internet in India is expensive, especially on a mobile. If there is a free/low cost service that could take care of the basic stuff, I'd take it.

But that is not my point. I am talking about freedom to choose. I am talking about how people think that they have figured out what is best for the world. And then seek laws around it.
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Old 4th January 2016, 18:58   #371
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I think we should letting the consumer decide what's best for him. I see that in rural areas, with connectivity problems, such a free Facebook can be useful (I personally dont even have a fb acc).

Also, going through the previous posts, I seem to remember the detergent ads that remove greese/food stains etc. from a white cloth. I've not yet able to replicate the same result in home. Does that ad make me buy their product? Maybe once, but not again.

Nothing is free I know, but let me ask you this - how many of us use gmail? In gmail terms, they mention reading your emails for targeted ads. I don't see gmail users crying over that fact.

So, as long as you have a choice to opt out of freebasics, I think it should be ok. Let those who want to use it for free use it. It is also possible that other operators might start such a scheme, but there will be an option to not join in.
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Old 4th January 2016, 18:59   #372
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Internet in India is expensive, especially on a mobile. If there is a free/low cost service that could take care of the basic stuff, I'd take it.

But that is not my point. I am talking about freedom to choose. I am talking about how people think that they have figured out what is best for the world. And then seek laws around it.
Its amazing that you have a point. I tried looking for it, but could not find any.
You use words that you do not know the meaning of, and you want an internet with no google or yahoo or any indian banking sites. And you find Internet in India expensive yet you drive a Civic. My head is reeling already.

It looks like you wish to argue for the sake of arguing and I do not see any point in continuing this farce.

BTW Nasscom has also rejected this farcial argument, and is opposing FreeBasics.
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Old 4th January 2016, 19:14   #373
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Default Re: The fight for net neutrality is on! Time to reclaim the internet

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Its amazing that you have a point. I tried looking for it, but could not find any.
You use words that you do not know the meaning of,
Come on, rather than saying I am ignorant, please state why my arguments are against the meaning of the words "freedom", "choose", "laws" etc.
Quote:
and you want an internet with no google or yahoo or any indian banking sites. And you find Internet in India expensive yet you drive a Civic. My head is reeling already.
I used to drive a used Civic. I am poor in my own right. My internet bills are higher than my newspaper, electricity, mobile and cable bills. I think internet should get cheaper.
Quote:
It looks like you wish to argue for the sake of arguing and I do not see any point in continuing this farce.
That is freedom to choose when to leave a debate.
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BTW Nasscom has also rejected this farcial argument, and is opposing FreeBasics.
So, I lost?
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Old 4th January 2016, 19:28   #374
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Come on, rather than saying I am ignorant, please state why my arguments are against the meaning of the words "freedom", "choose", "laws" etc.

I used to drive a used Civic. I am poor in my own right. My internet bills are higher than my newspaper, electricity, mobile and cable bills. I think internet should get cheaper.

That is freedom to choose when to leave a debate.

So, I lost?
Regarding "Freedom, Choose, Laws", I think enough has been said already as to how FreeBasics impinges on peoples "Freedom", and how they throttle "Choice", hence the need for "Laws". Of course you have chosen to ignore those points since they do not suit your convenience.

If your internet bills are indeed higher than your newspaper, electricity, mobile and cable bills, then you are surely not the intended target audience for freebasics.

I dont think you're ignorant, I think you've just got a lot of time to waste, and probably have some vested interest in supporting Freebasics, perhaps some business relationship/employee/contractor etc.

I'm sorry, I do not have the liberty to spar any further with you on this matter, but you please continue to believe that your internet bills will vanish with Freebasic.
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Old 4th January 2016, 19:30   #375
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Quote:
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Come on, rather than saying I am ignorant, please state why my arguments are against the meaning of the words "freedom", "choose", "laws" etc.
Why is ganesh not provided the freedom to choose what sites he wants to use?
Also, why can't Zuckerberg and gang straight up say it's a business model? (law).
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