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Old 7th March 2016, 12:10   #46
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Default Re: Elevator manners - General civic sense lacking?

Speaking of well mannered Indians abroad, I would like to share my experience. Its not about lifts, most of the points are covered here already

Last year while returning from London to Bangalore, the flight (British Airways) got delayed about 3-4 hours, People (90% Indians) were waiting patiently and politely. The crew members of BA was also well behaving and giving updates timely. and after about 4 Hrs, they have announced the flight was cancelled and further proceedings will be announced shortly. Understandably there was a distress among the passengers. But all hell broke loose when the crew started handing over the instruction in an A4 paper.
People just jumped up on the crew and papers were snatched from them. I felt like I was in a hunger starved country where people are snatching the food packets.
The expression on the crew was something I have never seen. They seem .
After an hour of shouting, begging and all, they managed to calm the people down and arranged a hotel at London and transport. People alighting the Buses to hotel at airport looked like Mumbai Suburban Train station. No Queues, No manners, Shouting, Fighting, Crying etc. We waited for the last bus and went to the hotel peacefully, to miss the dinner (Thank god I couldn't witness the mayhem at the restaurant for the FREE Food as said by a co-Passenger)

Sad but true ,that day a few of us felt really ashamed of our people, most of them are well dressed, highly qualified so called techies . Abroad or in India, people can only hide their true colors for very limited time frame. Given a chance the infamous Indian will jump out for sure. God save us
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Old 7th March 2016, 12:26   #47
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Great Thread, my input to this is humanity has stopped caring. We don't care about anything which does not involve us getting a benefit, as trivial as it may be. Couple of seconds or couple of rupees does not matter. It seems like world today has taken a trend of not to care.
Education for the lack of better word, and I am not kidding, is only limited to the output you get from implementing it. Teachers teach you, if you don't study, you will not get good marks and not get good profession. Parents teach you, if you done study hard you will not get 'X' stuff. A friend of mine recently said we are not highly educated people but highly certified. We are ‘taught’ to only take things we need out of it not for gaining broader perspective. The most important thing however is that it’s called civic ‘sense’, given we are highly evolved may be we have gone beyond it.
Every person who starts at work as a fresher is at the same level, they become better by putting into practice what they do on a daily basis, learn and evolve. I assume that same should apply to life but sadly we don’t seem to see it as a learning process. We are so amazingly full of over selves that we cannot, let me correct it, we refuse to see beyond our selves and think we are better than everyone here. Courtesy does not exist and being remotely polite is a huge ask.
Few observations on elevators.
There will always be one individual in an elevator who is in such a rush that he will be busy rattling the buttons to close the door quickly. Being in IT and seeing people who think about automation on a regular basis, so much that probably they must assume that the elevator has next gen sensing mechanism, quick presses of the button are programmed to invoke a protocol to close the door and jet to the next floor. When the reality dawns they curse the programming for being trivial and not thinking beyond the box.
The ones who seem to shout/indicate to hold the lift but as soon as they get in, the first thing they do is press and hold the button which closes the door without a care in the world about who is behind them. My job done, the rest of the world can go where ever it wishes to.
I can see why there is so much emphasis put on planning in our country to the point of being rudimentary. Grab your laptop with wires hanging all over the place and make sure you get into the lift, worse sometimes with water bottles or coffee mugs along. The meeting you are running late too is probably sprung on you at the very last moment, with outlook giving you an indication of it 15 minutes and then 5 minutes in advance. Again outlook’s fault that it is not clever enough.
The best are the ones, and I love to have a chat with them, who give you a talking to for taking the lift to the first floor. Residents on the first floor should walk. My reply is would you pay back the maintenance charges for the lift the people on the floor pay and they seem to scoff back at me being a bit too smart. Touché!
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Old 7th March 2016, 12:38   #48
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Default Re: Elevator manners - General civic sense lacking?

The beauty is many still have not got the concept right, they still press the down button to call the lift, if they are going up.

Waiting for others to is another bigger pain.

In malls, the next is people boarding the lift which is going up, even if they are going downwards just to ensure that they have a comfortable place on the lift.

Having said the all above, it is also important to see whether the lifts are rightly placed. In many malls, I have seen a wrongly placed lift, which again affects the people movement.
Another case is inadequate number of lifts.
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Old 7th March 2016, 12:38   #49
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There will always be one individual in an elevator who is in such a rush that he will be busy rattling the buttons to close the door quickly.
The ones who seem to shout/indicate to hold the lift but as soon as they get in, the first thing they do is press and hold the button which closes the door without a care in the world about who is behind them. My job done, the rest of the world can go where ever it wishes to.
Very valid observations and initially this kind of behavior used to piss me off but off lately I have learned to view it all from the perspective of someone watching a comedy play or movie. Just like the late George Carlin used to say, I am here for the ride. Everyone is in a heck of a hurry to go nowhere.
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Old 7th March 2016, 13:03   #50
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Very valid observations and initially this kind of behavior used to piss me off but off lately I have learned to view it all from the perspective of someone watching a comedy play or movie. Just like the late George Carlin used to say, I am here for the ride. Everyone is in a heck of a hurry to go nowhere.
Well getting pissed off was yanked out of me a long time ago, I have given up on getting worked up for something which won't changes. I do however subscribe to the very thought of watching these individuals and get this broad sheepish grin on my face just thinking about what was achieved and how humanity is now better off. If he didn't do what he just did we would have seen the end of the world. Amuses me.
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Old 7th March 2016, 13:27   #51
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Sadly, this is not practiced by few parents / teachers/ seniors, and only exists in moral science books or classes on etiquette and courtesy. And as the days go by the numbers further dwindle. The reason I say this, is my son mimics what I do which is not even instructed. Also whenever I take my bike, insists I take the helmet (I normally pick it in the end, but he starts insisting from the time he sees the bike key), because he has always seen me take the bike only with my helmets on. Another example, our unit head (head of our Chennai office used to join the queue at the pantry for lunch and sits along with us, when he could have very well ordered it to his desk. In fact we had a HR manager who jumped the queue, and everybody was



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Originally Posted by Asish_VK View Post
Speaking of well mannered Indians abroad, I would like to share my experience. Its not about lifts, most of the points are covered here already

Last year while returning from London to Bangalore, the flight (British Airways) got delayed about 3-4 hours, People (90% Indians) were waiting patiently and politely. ....
I felt like I was in a hunger starved country where people are snatching the food packets.
The expression on the crew was something I have never seen. They seem ....
Abroad or in India, people can only hide their true colors for very limited time frame. Given a chance the infamous Indian will jump out for sure. God save us
I think its the push to get ahead of the rest which is encouraged back here, and a the instinct to survive as well. In that "eco-system" courtesy takes least priority. This is not limited to us alone!! When I was travelling back from Oslo to London on a no-frills airline (not sure if it was Ryanair or some other) a decade back, the minute the announcement was made that the aircraft is ready for boarding, and the seats are on a "first come first serve" basis, all hell broke loose all passengers were jumping from seat to seat and pushing others to get ahead in the boarding queue. The likes of which I have seen only at the govt inter-city bus-stand in Chennai.

Also I have seen many times, the way the airlines treats "other" passengers differently compared to how Indians get treated, and dont get food vouchers or hotel vouchers and are left to fend for themselves.

That said its no excuse to have one's bad behavior justified because the other person is also wrong!!
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Old 7th March 2016, 14:52   #52
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Originally Posted by raghu.t.k View Post


I think its the push to get ahead of the rest which is encouraged back here, and a the instinct to survive as well. In that "eco-system" courtesy takes least priority. This is not limited to us alone!! When I was travelling back from Oslo to London on a no-frills airline (not sure if it was Ryanair or some other) a decade back, the minute the announcement was made that the aircraft is ready for boarding, and the seats are on a "first come first serve" basis, all hell broke loose all passengers were jumping from seat to seat and pushing others to get ahead in the boarding queue. The likes of which I have seen only at the govt inter-city bus-stand in Chennai.

Also I have seen many times, the way the airlines treats "other" passengers differently compared to how Indians get treated, and dont get food vouchers or hotel vouchers and are left to fend for themselves.

That said its no excuse to have one's bad behavior justified because the other person is also wrong!!

Agree with you, Some airlines does treat us differently. But as I said everything was so well for long time in this case. People were tolerant till that time. The flight crew announced that the Next flight is on Next day at 11.00 am or so, seat layout and every preferences are unchanged and every individual has allocated separate rooms at a cozy hotel, Buses are arranged at 15 mins interval till last passenger reaches the Hotel and dinner also was arranged. above that they were providing tea/snacks coupons timely

I was wondering why its hard to maintain a composure and be wait for your turn ? Nothing was going to change if you make a hustle in this case
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Old 7th March 2016, 16:01   #53
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Another incident comes to my mind when we talk about public behaviour. It was in Atlanta (US) and we have to go through the criss crossed Retractable Belt Barrier Stanchions before we reach the immigration officer. One well dressed gentleman (Of course Indian, just to save from walking some extra meters, lifted the belt ribbon and crossed two aisles bypassing the people walking ahead.

The officer who was standing nearby immediately said. "Sir, this is not India, you have to just get back into your queue and proceed". It was really an embarrassing situation where our country gets a bad name just because we cannot mend our habits.
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Old 7th March 2016, 23:57   #54
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Courtesy & civic sense has reached rock bottom in IT firms. I have seen senior folks who should lead the way in such things, rushing in without any regard for folks getting out of elevator. Shameless to say the least. This is my experience in so called highly respected MNC.
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Old 8th March 2016, 02:27   #55
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One incident that I can recall. In my office building, I was travelling from the basement to the 5th floor. A load of youngsters filled in on the ground floor. Now I was expecting the overload siren to go off since there were certainly more people than the lift could accommodate.

The siren did not go off and the lift started moving. As soon as we neared the second floor, the lift suddenly slowed down, stopped and started moving downwards !!

It gained a little momentum and then semi-crashed a little below the -1 level. Some occupants panicked and had to be calmed down. We pressed the siren and also called security on the intercom. They came soon enough and helped us out by prying the doors open. We had to literally climb up to get out of the elevator.

Now people should not have come into the lift in such numbers but then the siren also did not go off and the lift started moving after the doors shut themselves. That was one scary moment when the lift suddenly started sliding down !! Isn't there some provision to brake if this happens ?

I can explain some part of what has happened in this incident (although we are digressing from the topic which is about manners)

The overload alarm did not go off either because it malfunctioned or did not exist at all. It is not mandatory for an elevator to have an overload sensor.

Until the doors shut and the lift started, this overloading would not make the lift move. This is because the lift is held in place by a brake; it is the equivalent of a parking brake in the car. This brake is not normally used to stop the lift but it holds the lift after it has stopped. The default position of this brake is to prevent the lift from moving, i.e. if the power supply goes off the brake will get applied by springs and stop the lift. Power needs to be applied to open the brake and let the lift move.

I am not sure how the lift first moved up before going down. An overloaded lift trying move up would normally stall on the spot. Can't say without knowing the drive and control system used.

When the lift moved down the control system /motor did not stop it by the time it reached the last floor. So it continued downwards and hit the spring buffer which is fixed at the bottom of the shaft. This cushioned the impact and saved you from being injured.

There are mechanisms in an elevator which will prevent it from falling down at catastrophic speeds (if for example, the elevator cable breaks or drive gear wears out and loses grip on the cable). Once the lift exceeds a certain speed while falling a safety gear will get triggered which will clamp the cabin to the rails and bring it to an abrupt halt. This system is purely mechanical and does not depend on power supply. Every elevator has to have this in working order and it is supposed to be tested regularly.

The dimensions of the elevator cabin are designed to prevent overloading. Technically the capacity of the elevator is the weight which it can carry. This is always in multiples of 68 kg because the government reckons this to be the weight of an average Indian. For example max 5 persons / 340 kg. Then based on the rated number of persons there is a maximum floor area per person which the cabin is allowed to have. This prevents too many people form getting into the elevator and overloading it. People have to be uncomfortably squeezed together to overload a lift - this is supposed to be a deterrent but does not work with people who are used to riding in Mumbai local trains.
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Old 8th March 2016, 08:30   #56
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I can explain some part of what has happened in this incident (although we are digressing from the topic which is about manners)

The overload alarm did not go off either because it malfunctioned or did not exist at all.

I am not sure how the lift first moved up before going down. An overloaded lift trying move up would normally stall on the spot.

So it continued downwards and hit the spring buffer which is fixed at the bottom of the shaft. This cushioned the impact and saved you from being injured.


People have to be uncomfortably squeezed together to overload a lift - this is supposed to be a deterrent but does not work with people who are used to riding in Mumbai local trains.
Thanks for the explanation !

Well I had been in that lift before and the overload alarm did go off once before so as you say it must have malfunctioned. Also maybe the alarm malfunction affected the system which prevents the lift from moving while overloaded ?

The lift did hit the spring buffer which saved us. But those few seconds when 3 people were in panic mode, few others trying to calm them, one trying to reach the security and some pressing buttons (I don't know for what reason ) were harrowing.
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Old 8th March 2016, 11:39   #57
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How come the most funny logic that is deployed more often than not is not mentioned so far.

If you are on 5th floor, lift car is on 1 st floor and you want to go down, which button will you press? Up or Down?
.
.
.
The answer is UP

The logic is that the person who pressed it is telling the Lift car to come up.
Am I the only stupid who never got it or I have company?
You have company for sure. But sometimes, this does work. The building in which my office is located has 5 elevators in a lobby out of which not one is programmed logically(if there is a feature for it to be programmed)

Example- If I am on the 6th floor and waiting to go to the ground floor and out of 5 elevators, atleast 2 are close to the 6th floor and idle. But when I press the down button, the one that comes is the one that is farthest and the one closest are still in idle.
So when there was no one around, I did press the up button just to check what happens and behold the closest lift that was in idle comes to my level and I get on it and go down and the other elevator is still on the way.
I don't do it always, this was just an experiment .

Adding to the rant to what the thread is, I have some bright ones in my office who go and press the button that is already pressed, like their magic touch will make the elevator move faster.

Last edited by tharian : 8th March 2016 at 11:51.
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Old 9th March 2016, 20:53   #58
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All the points highlighted here are everybody's everyday experience. The most annoying one being folks rushing into the car before people get out. As I see it, like everything else the situation is not improving. The next generation is even worse. The 8+6 cars in our building start the day clean but as the sneaker boys start their shifts and towards the evening we can find foot prints even on the roof of the elevators. Ninja's galore.

On a lighter note, Once in the land of opportunities I decided to be an environment friendly Indian. Had to use the rest room on the alternate floor as the one on my floor was being cleaned. I decided to take the stair instead of the lift. I was on the 12th floor and decided to go to the 11th floor. Little did I know that the stair doors and stairs are for fire evacuation only. The door only opens to the stair but not the other way around. Had to walk down 12 floors to relieve myself of what was left in the tank .
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Old 10th March 2016, 06:24   #59
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One more. People continuing to attempt to squeeze in as if an Elevator has unlimited space. In spite of it being obviously full, some one will always try to squeeze in to that final tiny bit of space remaining. Prevalent in Malls where the people to floor to elevator ratio is very poor.
To add to this, how often have we found ourselves in a sardine-stuffed elevator which trips on overload - and when no one near the door budges to disgorge themselves, you fight your way from the back in disgust and get out to catch the next one!
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Old 10th March 2016, 06:26   #60
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One more point I would like to add is what people talk while in the lift. I have observed two kinds of people

1) The kind who discuss office politics and start ranting on someone. Well, you are free to discuss that but not in front of others ! You are indirectly projecting a bad work culture of the organization you belong to.

2) The other who discusses work. This may sound harmless but if you'r work involves hitech/confidential stuff, you may need to practice caution. I am always of the opinion that a hacker or someone just need to spend time in the lift going up and down to get some good piece of information around companies !!! If I am not wrong, I think I heard about bugs in a certain product designed by a particular company and the issues being discussed by their employees while in the lift.
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