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Old 6th December 2016, 15:30   #1486
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
You mean you used your credit card? The transaction fee on petrol and diesel payments via credit card has been there for a long, long time, that's why the Credit Card thread on Team-BHP is full of questions regarding cards that waive off the fuel surcharge.

Apparently the ₹4.7 crore seized recently mainly consisting of ₹2,000 notes was procured in connivance with the ATM refilling companies who chose not to fill the ATMs, but diverted that currency instead.
I have been using credit cards a long, long time, and I know what a fuel surcharge is. I use team-bhp and recommend it to a lot of people, don't need the credit card thread for such unsolicited information. Fuel surcharge waiver or not, I pay cash specifically to avoid being scammed at a petrol pump - the trusted pumps' threads are full of card users getting scammed, because the attendants are trained to divert your attention by asking "cash or card?".

No use having a petro-branded card, which I do, if the company doesn't have an outlet at a convenient location.

No one is interested in 2000 rupee notes, and this seizure has taken 4.7 crores more out of circulation as if the current mess wasn't bad enough.

Last edited by SDP : 6th December 2016 at 18:16. Reason: Lets tone down a bit and not get overly aggressive while making a point. Thanks
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Old 6th December 2016, 15:33   #1487
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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......So let me get this straight, someone maintains an account with a bank requiring ₹2 lakhs AQB, hardly imposes on the bank all this while, yet the one time out of necessity she goes to the bank, she has to wait along with everyone else in the queue?
Turn it the other way around for a second. Someone has only a TDS-based income (salary, bank deposits and the likes), pays all their taxes on time, files IT returns diligently and has not a single paisa to hide, but has now been inconvenienced same as everyone else due to the demonetization drive. Why shouldn't he/she demand to be treated as an exception because they have nothing to do with this initiative?

The answer to that has been - on this thread and the entire national dialogue - 'please put up with temporary inconvenience for a short while for the greater good', then why the double standards now? This inconvenience is temporary too, isn't it?

Customers are usually treated based on their monetary worth without question, but this is an unusual temporary circumstance.


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ICICI Bank and by the looks of it, HDFC bank too, really do not offer any priority-banking except by name.
My family has been a priority banking customer with ICICI for a while, myself a decade plus. Have always walked straight up to the priority banking desk at whatever branch I visit and have been serviced promptly without delay. Transactions, paperwork, services, the whole bunch.

Dad has a similar experience with both ICICI and Axis.

HNI customers do get 'special' treatment over and above regular priority banking, that I won't deny.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 6th December 2016 at 15:39.
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Old 6th December 2016, 16:55   #1488
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
I have been using credit cards a long, long time, and I know what a fuel surcharge is. I use team-bhp and recommend it to a lot of people, don't need the credit card thread for such unsolicited information. Fuel surcharge waiver or not, I pay cash specifically to avoid being scammed at a petrol pump - the trusted pumps' threads are full of card users getting scammed, because the attendants are trained to divert your attention by asking "cash or card?".
The fuel surcharge is something many on Team-BHP are well aware of and many of us have been paying at pumps all these years keeping the limitations of the various cards in mind.

Unlike you, I don't have any experience getting scammed when paying by credit card. In fact, I was scammed once a long time ago when I paid in cash.

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
No one is interested in 2000 rupee notes
Neither am I interested in a ₹2,000 note, but that's all I got when I went to my bank last week. I struggled for a week as I could not get change for a single ₹2,000 note until I realized that my maid had happily taken her pay in ₹2,000 notes and she did not even complain once. Yesterday I gave her a ₹2,000 note and today she brought me change in 100s.

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Turn it the other way around for a second. Someone has only a TDS-based income (salary, bank deposits and the likes), pays all their taxes on time, files IT returns diligently and has not a single paisa to hide, but has now been inconvenienced same as everyone else due to the demonetization drive. Why shouldn't he/she demand to be treated as an exception because they have nothing to do with this initiative?
Two aspects are being confabulated here. Paying tax, filing taxes regularly and priority banking are both completely disparate, there is no link between the two. In the latter case, the bank has made a promise to the customer that for a certain AQB, it will provide better, maybe even individualized service to the customer. If the bank doesn't want to keep its promise, it is up to the customer whether he/she wants to continue banking with them.

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
My family has been a priority banking customer with ICICI for a while, myself a decade plus. Have always walked straight up to the priority banking desk at whatever branch I visit and have been serviced promptly without delay. Transactions, paperwork, services, the whole bunch.
I was an ICICI Bank Priority Banking customer until some years back, but the branch I banked with started providing fewer and fewer services to priority banking customers. At first, they had a dedicated top floor for priority banking customers in that multi-storey branch, then they shifted it down to the ground floor with a separate counter for priority banking customers, finally they removed the separate counter and you had to flash your priority banking card to go to the head of the queue demeaning all those who were patiently in queue. That is when I drew the line, I just couldn't bring myself to do that and I never did. I simply moved my account elsewhere.

SBI PPB branches provide comparatively good service for low AQB of ₹2,500.

Last edited by SDP : 6th December 2016 at 18:17. Reason: Quoted post edited and trimmed part of your response to it
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Old 6th December 2016, 16:57   #1489
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Turn it the other way around for a second. Someone has only a TDS-based income (salary, bank deposits and the likes), pays all their taxes on time, files IT returns diligently and has not a single paisa to hide, but has now been inconvenienced same as everyone else due to the demonetization drive. Why shouldn't he/she demand to be treated as an exception because they have nothing to do with this initiative?
...
Demand? Really? Demand from a bank where they had never done any business? What's the source for this sense of entitlement?

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The answer to that has been - on this thread and the entire national dialogue - 'please put up with temporary inconvenience for a short while for the greater good', then why the double standards now? This inconvenience is temporary too, isn't it?
Its between the Govt and the people. So the people should be asking these questions to the Govt and NOT hold the banks (and their legitimate customers) to ransom for Govt policies.

Last edited by SDP : 6th December 2016 at 17:28.
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Old 6th December 2016, 17:24   #1490
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
I sure am not mouthing off any advice to you, please read what I wrote. The fuel surcharge is something many on Team-BHP are well aware of and many of us have been paying at pumps all these years keeping the limitations of the various cards in mind.

Unlike you, I don't have any experience getting scammed when paying by credit card. In fact, I was scammed once a long time ago when I paid in cash.

Neither am I interested in a ₹2,000 note, but that's all I got when I went to my bank last week. I struggled for a week as I could not get change for a single ₹2,000 note until I realized that my maid had happily taken her pay in ₹2,000 notes and she did not even complain once. Yesterday I gave her a ₹2,000 note and today she brought me change in 100s.
You didn't understand the part about me using my credit card, so lets not go around in circles. Team-BHP isn't the only place where people are aware of fuel surcharge, its pretty much a highlight of any credit card sales push, cash payments involve no complications and basically keep it transactional, which is what it should be. Your experience of being scammed with cash is anecdotal, in fact the first time I am hearing it. Cash doesn't have any limitation and works fine everywhere.

Your own experience with the 2000 rupee note is precisely why the news item was a yawn, if it was a stash of 100s then, it would have been something. Your maid got a few hundreds doesn't mean that everyone can hand over money to the house help/security guard and get change, most ATMs are closed and the open ones are dishing out 2000s which is why no one is withdrawing. At least you realise there is a problem, thank God for small favours.
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Old 6th December 2016, 17:51   #1491
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I have been a customer of ICICI for about 15 years and own a savings, current, loan, two demat and credit card accounts with them. Now if the bank considers me a privileged customer, and is ready to offer me services without me standing in a queue I'd rather use it. If a bank manager refused to to entertain a privileged customer then he is flouting the bank's rules and a complaint to his boss is in order.

The fact that a fuel surcharge was there for years is no consolation if I am being coerced to use the card now. In fact a surcharge is there at all points of sale, but the merchant is made to foot the bill which he quietly adds to the price of items being purchased. In low margin items like fuel, he can't do that and hence the explicit surcharge. Cash was the only medium where there is no middleman. In all card, e-wallet transactions some money goes to the middlemen. I don't know if digital money is the future or not, but wherever it is cheaper, I am going to use cash. Damn the politicians who are helping the PayTMs and JioMoneys go after my money.

This demonetization scheme appears to be a bigger scam than one previously imagined.

Last edited by blacksport : 6th December 2016 at 17:58.
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Old 6th December 2016, 18:09   #1492
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Demand? Really? Demand from a bank where they had never done any business? What's the source for this sense of entitlement?
Demand from the govt., not a bank. Should've been clearer, my bad.
As for sense of entitlement, every sample I've seen of this manifesting is invariably someone who doesn't need to use it.

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Its between the Govt and the people. So the people should be asking these questions to the Govt and NOT hold the banks (and their legitimate customers) to ransom for Govt policies.
Nobody is holding anyone to ransom. Some banks are requesting their privileged customers to temporarily forego their special privileges for cash-based transactions due to the current circumstances, they however usually give in if a customer refuses to oblige.

I'll rephrase my stand: I'm happy to oblige my bank's request to forego my privileged status temporarily, both sides knowing full well that it's temporary on their part and discretionary on mine.

I also don't have an issue with others demanding their privileged status be maintained irrespective of the situation (that's their choice to make), but I do have an issue when the same people then preach others to have patience and 'put up with temporary hardship'. Can't have one's cake and eat it too.

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If a bank manager refused to to entertain a privileged customer then he is flouting the bank's rules and a complaint to his boss is in order......
Nobody is refusing anything, my apologies if I worded my post to give that impression. That's my fault, not the bank manager's.

Like I said before, some bank managers are requesting privileged customers to willingly forego their status for cash-based transactions temporarily until this situation eases out. For those who refuse, they have no option but to provide services to the extent possible (cash and denominations are still in limited supply) and defined by the bank's operational rules.

I wasn't refused service outright, I was offered a choice and I chose one that made sense to me.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 6th December 2016 at 18:19.
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Old 6th December 2016, 18:34   #1493
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Your maid got a few hundreds doesn't mean that everyone can hand over money to the house help/security guard and get change, most ATMs are closed and the open ones are dishing out 2000s which is why no one is withdrawing. At least you realise there is a problem, thank God for small favours.
Don't think you fully understood what I was trying to convey.

Whereas I failed, my maid got me change in ₹100s for a ₹2,000 note which is enough to last me more than a week, maybe two. She had no qualms doing it either and got it easily from a shopkeeper she grocery shops with regularly near her home. So unlike the keyboard warriors here, I sense a huge disconnect with those earning a lower income who never used a credit card all their life.

PS: I cannot comprehend the need for sarcasm in the enclosed post.
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Old 6th December 2016, 19:03   #1494
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
....
I'll rephrase my stand: ...

I also don't have an issue with others demanding their privileged status be maintained irrespective of the situation (that's their choice to make), but I do have an issue when the same people then preach others to have patience and 'put up with temporary hardship'. Can't have one's cake and eat it too.
....
Thank you for rephrasing your stand. This is definitely more specific (and does not brand ALL privileged customers as insensitive pricks having double standards) than the following:

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
....but it's disheartening to see people use their 'privileged customer' status to avoid inconvenience when they're probably among the least affected, and then preach 'do it for the greater good' sermons from their assumed moral high horses.
Hope you appreciate why I chose not to comment on that part in its earlier version.

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I am going to ignore the portion in bold as a gross generalization ....
Banks can not deny priority service to their priority customers without the risk of losing the customer. So the example you gave where someone got really pissed off when the manager "expressed his inability to let the gentleman jump the queue given the circumstances" is a classic example not of arrogance from the privileged customer but of misplaced priorities by the manager. There is nothing wrong with privileged customers asking for priority treatment. Even they have legitimate needs for cash. A certain amount of restrain is expected, but that is as true for the non-privileged guy standing in the long queue as for the privileged guy seated on the sofa.
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Old 6th December 2016, 20:07   #1495
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Thank you for rephrasing your stand. This is definitely more specific (and does not brand ALL privileged customers as insensitive pricks having double standards) than the following......

.......Hope you appreciate why I chose not to comment on that part in its earlier version.
Written language has its limitations, so I won't blame you for reading between the lines. You'll notice I didn't quantify my original (or rephrased) comment with 'all', 'most' or anything of the sort, you assumed that. I could've been more specific, sure.


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Banks can not deny priority service to their priority customers without the risk of losing the customer. So the example you gave where someone got really pissed off when the manager "expressed his inability to let the gentleman jump the queue given the circumstances" is a classic example not of arrogance from the privileged customer but of misplaced priorities by the manager.....
While the risk to the bank is real, I'll have to disagree with some bits there.

First, nobody was or is being denied anything in a 'take it or leave it' manner, and if the gentleman had given the manager a minute to explain himself (like he did to every priority customer that walked in and had a moment's patience) instead of being a prick (I can't quote him verbatim without breaking forum rules), this could've gone much better for everyone including himself.

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There is nothing wrong with privileged customers asking for priority treatment. Even they have legitimate needs for cash.
No disagreement on service expectation and genuine needs (I qualify on both counts), but nobody is entitled to act like a thug. The manager was well within his rights to try and do what's best for the majority of his customers while not breaking rules of service defined by the bank, and the customer is free to care about nobody but himself (it's his money), but neither party has the right to act in an abusive manner.

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A certain amount of restrain is expected, but that is as true for the non-privileged guy standing in the long queue as for the privileged guy seated on the sofa.
There were multiple priority customers in the bank the day I queued up, and there were a few who insisted on being serviced on priority but did so in a dignified manner and got what they wanted (of course within limits of what the bank could practically do). One guy asked for his entire withdrawal in 50s and 100s but the bank offered him a mix of denominations instead and he relented. No heated tempers or raised voices.

This has gone completely off-track anyway.

I'm a privileged banking customer myself and use the services every time I visit a bank branch, but these aren't usual circumstances and a certain degree of the 'Noblesse Oblige' concept applies. That's just my personal opinion.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 6th December 2016 at 20:16.
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Old 6th December 2016, 22:05   #1496
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According to RBI data, the total amount deposited/exchanged in old 500/1000 notes from Nov 10-27 (17 days) is Rs.8.45 lakh crores. So, does the report mean that in another 3 days from Nov 28-30, an additional 2.55 lakh crores have been deposited?
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... Anyway better not to speculate and wait for the official data which should be out on Monday.
Unlike previous two occasions, RBI did not publish last week's deposit details on Monday nor today so far.

Anyway, citing their sources Bloomberg is reporting that about Rs 12.6 lakh crores have been deposited into bank accounts as of December 3, 2016 [1]. This figure apparently does not include the SBN currency that was present in more than 2 lakh ATMs, 1 lakh bank branches and the currency chests across the country on the night of November 8, 2016 [2].

At what figure is it going to stop? Any guess?


[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ate-82-of-cash

[2] http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/cur...t_8067441.html
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Old 7th December 2016, 08:07   #1497
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Frankly I expected the queues to vanish by now. However, I forgot the impact of the salary week. So i expect things to settle down by next Tuesday or so.
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Old 7th December 2016, 08:52   #1498
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Your new currency is not 100 per cent " Made in India "


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now paper is being sourced from United Kingdom as well. Sources in the RBI have told India Today that around 16 million tonne of paper is being imported from the UK. That's not all, RBI is even sourcing the specialized security thread used in new notes from centres across Italy, Ukraine and UK
Quote:
Interestingly, the intaglio ink used to print the notes is supplied from Madhya Pradesh, Sikkim and Rajasthan but its also produced abroad and then sources from local centres

Does it open the channels for future FICN ?


Source : http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/y.../1/826860.html
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Old 7th December 2016, 10:50   #1499
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Wow!. The thread has reached 100 pages. This is a hot topic for sure.

No doubt, people have been pained and shocked by this move, some people more than others especially if they had some cash lying around or they had avenues of tax evasion. Based on anecdotal evidence, small & large traders, Doctors, lawyers, private hospitals, media organizations/reporters seem to have been hardest hit on one side.The relatively younger urban poor are managing well (folks under 40) since most of them have bank accounts. For eg, our driver, maid, the guy who irons have had only minimal impact of a week at max.However migrant labour (From Bengal/Bangladeshi?) and some of the older urban poor without proper identification are struggling.

Personally i have had no major inconvenience. I have a thick stack of 100 notes in my wallet which i took during a 5 minute visit to SBI PB branch. Have had not really used it since most merchants have installed POS machines after this.

I have gone to ATMs couple of times, just for the sake of it than anything else since there were no queues. Both times, i got 2000 notes which was promptly used to fill up diesel/petrol resulting in change.

Overall I have been surprised at the negative narrative for this move in the media. If you do a google search, you will see that 90% of the articles are critical of this move and have called out that this will be a failure. There have also been different figures of cash deposited, most of which seem to be incorrect based on the RBI and also state bank of India reports that have come out. One does feel that there seems to be a strong vested interest on the part of the Media of this country to see this move fail.

I think we should add a poll to this thread to find out what the team-bhp members actually feel. The choices could be -

1. Severely pained by Demonetization and there will be a net loss
2. Moderately inconvenienced but think there will a net gain at the end of it.
3. Slightly inconvenienced but think that there will be a net gain.
4. No inconvenience at all and think that there will be a net gain.

Right now, it may be the vocal few whose voice is being heard.
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Old 7th December 2016, 10:56   #1500
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I was surprised to read that the Russian embassy and other embassies are unhappy with the cash withdrawal limits. Do they need cash for running their embassies and if they do, it creates doubts over how/why they do it.

Also, Federer and Serena withdrawing from tennis tournament citing 'economic state' of India resulting from demonetisation. Really amusing.
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