Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd December 2016, 10:24   #1801
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,044
Thanked: 3,590 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralJazz View Post
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/zBG...t-account.html

RBI removes the Rs.5000 cash deposit limit for KYC compliant bank accounts.

The bank chaps may have landed themselves into a bigger soup. How many banks, esp PSU renew/redo the KYCs every two years? So now if the chap is caught so will be his bank officials. I personally think KYC every two years is silly since both PAN and UID are permanent in nature, and can be verified digitally.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2016, 11:06   #1802
Newbie
 
KA09_BIKER_GPER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Mysore
Posts: 7
Thanked: 19 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Pardon my limited knowledge of the law.

What really happens after someone gets caught, say with 100Cr in hard cash and 25kgs of Gold ?

Where does that money/gold go ?
To whom does it belong to now ?
What is the punishment ?
Does the person face jail time ?
Does the person pay some sort of penalty ?
Does the person loose his job(govt/private employed) ?
KA09_BIKER_GPER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2016, 11:53   #1803
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,595
Thanked: 1,198 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KA09_BIKER_GPER View Post
Pardon my limited knowledge of the law.

What really happens after someone gets caught, say with 100Cr in hard cash and 25kgs of Gold ?
...
The end result depends on how well this SOMEONE is able to use Money (Yes more money) and power to get out of the situation with minimum damage. And no institution is sacred including Income Tax.

Last edited by SDP : 22nd December 2016 at 20:05. Reason: trimming the quote
kiku007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2016, 19:24   #1804
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 73
Thanked: 78 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KA09_BIKER_GPER View Post
What really happens after someone gets caught, say with 100Cr in hard cash and 25kgs of Gold ?

...
In theory :
-> The money/gold is confiscated by the raiding agency (ED/IT/CBI) and stored in a strong room somewhere. Cases are filed. The courts will decide if the person is guilty and if so, the punishment for corruption could range from 3 months to 5 years of imprisonment along with a fine.

In practice :

Last edited by SDP : 22nd December 2016 at 20:05. Reason: trimming the quote
perty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2016, 19:48   #1805
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,056
Thanked: 3,244 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by perty View Post

In theory :
-> The money/gold is confiscated by the raiding agency (ED/IT/CBI) and stored in a strong room somewhere. Cases are filed. The courts will decide if the person is guilty and if so, the punishment for corruption could range from 3 months to 5 years of imprisonment along with a fine.

In practice :
This implies that the person is guilty till proven innocent. Is this legal, confiscating money and gold without proving that it's illegal? Not in the current "punisher " mentality, but generally?
mayankk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2016, 20:52   #1806
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,092
Thanked: 629 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
This implies that the person is guilty till proven innocent. Is this legal, confiscating money and gold without proving that it's illegal? Not in the current "punisher " mentality, but generally?
That money, gold etc. is basically "evidence". And evidence can be kept in strong rooms, till the courts hear the case and pass their verdict. If the prosecution cannot prove the case, the money and gold back goes back to the owner.
sachinpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2016, 22:05   #1807
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,400
Thanked: 3,428 Times
Default

In reality usually once the media created storm settles down, a deal will be reached with money exchanging hands and the final report will document much lesser quantities of gold, cash etc.
drmohitg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2016, 16:11   #1808
BHPian
 
rrsteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 144022
Posts: 918
Thanked: 817 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
- PSU banks - they are gonna be big beneficiaries here. Hopefully they are gonna start rolling and trigger the larger economy into business
Incase you wondered how banks are going to benefit and in turn the larger economy.
A v. v. good read: http://ttrammohan.blogspot.in/2016/1...rm-indian.html
rrsteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2016, 09:25   #1809
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,044
Thanked: 3,590 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

My own guess, once the next salary rush is over, say by the tenth then things should ease out. barring the NCR region, no real queues in the banks and/or the ATMs. I personally expect a major relaxation in both the ATM limits (to say 10,000) and cash withdrawals (say 50,000) to be announced. I do not expect a total relaxation in a single shot.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2016, 10:40   #1810
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,092
Thanked: 629 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

1) ED finds Rs 104 cr in BSP a/c
2) Govt may bring in ordinance to legalise note ban
3) Major parties decline Cong invite for meeting
sachinpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2016, 11:27   #1811
Senior - BHPian
 
longhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,150
Thanked: 282 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
It is not always easy in our country to hold a moral high ground. I remember when I go to a hardware shop, jewelers shop, local cloth shop etc, and try to pay them by card, they used to only laugh at me, as if I was committing a crime by not keeping enough cash with me..
While I agree in principle with what you say, the root of the problem lies elsewhere. Ease of doing business in this country is next to zilch. You need of get a hundred approvals/clearances to start a small business, with no one but 'Gandhi' speaking at every stage. Even after the business is opened, there are more Gandhis needed during inspections, which are nothing but a sham. Where can the business man fit these 'expenses' in his accounts books. To be fair the current tax structure is nothing but a loot of the salaried class. The government, instead of attacking the root of the problem, has assumed every citizen is guilty of holding black money, instead of trying to find out and bring the culprits to law. If the tax slabs were meaningful, people would be more than willing to pay. IMO, this is what the government should have aimed for.

Last edited by longhorn : 27th December 2016 at 11:28. Reason: spelling
longhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2016, 12:24   #1812
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 442
Thanked: 33 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
It is not always easy in our country to hold a moral high ground. I remember when I go to a hardware shop, jewelers shop, local cloth shop etc, and try to pay them by card, they used to only laugh at me, as if I was committing a crime by not keeping enough cash with me. They would simply say , "Sir, we prefer only cash. If you want, ATM is just opposite the road".
In fact, I did feel guilty in a way that I did not carry enough cash in my pocket. Never realized that I was party to a practice that was helping tax evaders.
But now, if I go to the same shops they say , "Sir, pay by cash or card?".
Definitely, there is some change on the ground. Now, I can also hold my head high and say , "I will pay by card only". If they refuse, I go to the next shop.
Around 7 years ago when we were bitten by the real estate bug, we checked out an apartment building that was under-construction in my area thinking we will move into a flat whenever we retire. Even though the real-estate market in Bangalore was red-hot back then, most of the flats there were unsold.

We met the builder, he quoted ₹45 lakhs but he wanted it ALL in cash. He refused to accept even part-payment by cheque, consequently Home Loan, etc. was out of the question. We were dumbfounded and decided to drop out.

It made no iota of sense to me back then to reverse-launder our white money to make it black so that the builder can evade tax. I certainly felt a loser back then as property prices subsequently appreciated, but I'm laughing all the way to the bank now. If I had purchased that flat, I would also have had to incur a hit on improper LTCG. Taking the moral high ground is becoming a lot easier now.

When I look at a number of builders in my area, all except the established ones have been hit by demonetization. Only those who corporatized their construction business seem to be surviving right now.

Last edited by nowwhat? : 27th December 2016 at 12:28.
nowwhat? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2016, 20:41   #1813
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,930
Thanked: 1,390 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KA09_BIKER_GPER View Post
What really happens after someone gets caught, say with 100Cr in hard cash and 25kgs of Gold ?
The money/gold is taken into custody by the "catching" officer. A notice is issued to the person hoarding it, to provide the source of the money/gold. It is conceivable that someone with a high enough income had a whim to hold Rs. 100 Cr. in cash (and 25 kg in gold), so this would be their chance ot explain that. The investigating officer will check their sources of income, expenses to make sure that they could possibly have that much left over, and if yes, the money+gold is released back to them. If they are unable to explain the money, it is confiscated and criminal proceedings as per applicable law is initiated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
This implies that the person is guilty till proven innocent. Is this legal, confiscating money and gold without proving that it's illegal? Not in the current "punisher " mentality, but generally?
If someone is found with currency of Rs. 100 crore, then it gives rise to a legal concept called a "reasonable suspicion", so then the "burden of proof" now rests with the person to prove that all this money is legally earned and tax paid and so on. During any investigation, the burden of proof switches between the official and this person several times, with each iteration raising the bar of proof by that much. The theoretical aspects are well-documented and balances society's requirements vis-a-vis the individual's rights, but the practical implementation in India I suspect leaves a lot to be desired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
In reality usually once the media created storm settles down, a deal will be reached with money exchanging hands and the final report will document much lesser quantities of gold, cash etc.
If the final report differs from the inventory then the investigating officer will have a lot to explain; so such a deal has to be struck before the inventory is taken (usually during the raid time itself).
binand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2016, 09:19   #1814
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,044
Thanked: 3,590 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

@sachinpk; At the moment the money is a liability on the books of the RBI. It can only be extinguished after there is some act of the Govt. cancelling the 'unsurrendered' currency. Then it is a bonus to the RBI and the Govt.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2016, 10:47   #1815
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,629
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

01-Jan-2017 is about to be here, barely a few days away. As the tax payers and citizens continue to hope for things to get smooth, a few things remain unanswered.

What amount of black money is elicited ? How much percentage of total money deposited ?
Will there be legal steps against those who have stashed the money ?
Can we expect details of all political party's spending prior to this move on Nov 8, 2016 ?
Why not bring the political parties under ambit of RTI ? Any deadline or something ?

The whole move, IMO, has not brought forward solution to real problem which includes corruption in govt. too. What is achieved is best known to the govt., and real benefits, if any, will have to be observed for.

Remember, the govt. wanted to tax the already taxed PF, and "De-regulated" fuel prices are known to us all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
Ease of doing business in this country is next to zilch. You need of get a hundred approvals/clearances to start a small business, with no one but 'Gandhi' speaking at every stage. Even after the business is opened, there are more Gandhis needed during inspections, which are nothing but a sham. Where can the business man fit these 'expenses' in his accounts books.

To be fair the current tax structure is nothing but a loot of the salaried class. The government, instead of attacking the root of the problem, has assumed every citizen is guilty of holding black money, instead of trying to find out and bring the culprits to law. If the tax slabs were meaningful, people would be more than willing to pay. IMO, this is what the government should have aimed for.
Very true. Where I used to work earlier, we used to ship containers. For each container there would be inspections carried out by Excise. And for each container they took Rs. 2000-2500/-, demand was for over Rs. 5000/-. A few of us were always kept out of such inspections as my team feared our reaction for such bribe. And bribe for what ? Creating employment ? Exporting to N.America and Europe ?

These excise guys have so much rights, there is no point in complaining. Will the, err, any govt. act against these govt. employees ? What would be the scale of such transactions ? Who is responsible if these random acts of bribe continue in new notes ?

The govt., or rather any govt. in India blames citizens, and they have different rules or vision for govt. employees and those employed in private sector. Why so ?
The recent data of only 3.65 crore citizens filing ITR is shocking. Less than 3%. Source : Link
There are more car buyers than tax payers in India. I am aware of "loans", but then we are not taking into account the used car market which is quite large.
Corruption in govt. has to be checked first.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Government likely to award 21 highway projects for Rs. 28,000 crore & 1,500 kms S2!!! Street Experiences 1 22nd December 2015 20:05
Fake Currency Notes - How do you tell the difference? kedarwalke Shifting gears 24 11th July 2012 17:22
Know your pace notes Tom Indian Motorsport 15 14th June 2004 20:09
Journey Notes - Bangalore- Cochin in a Vtec ajmat The Indian Car Scene 13 16th April 2004 20:29


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:42.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks