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Old 3rd January 2017, 20:09   #1906
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The ATM withdrawal fee is back, you can perform 5 free transaction, 6th onwards its 20 RS per transaction, anyone would like to confirm this?
Totally expected. The waiver was only for the interim period.

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Originally Posted by deathwalkr View Post
Still not getting used to the 2k note. Went to ATM punched in 4500 got two 2k notes and one 500 note and complained to the manager that i got only 2500!
Many people are doing multiple withdrawals of 1500 or less to stock up on 500 notes.

PSU banks will never learn. My ATM card (Platinum) was due for renewal. I got an sms from SBI asking me to submit a fresh KYC set, which I did. Today I got the new ATM card, a Classic with limit reduced to 40% and 50% for payments and no foreign capabilities. Mind you my average deposit with the SBI has gone up more than five fold. At the same time when my MNC bank renewed my Platinum card, it came with a 100% enhancement.

So where do I go? My preference is obvious. The bank has full record of the card type so no excuses that we were not aware!
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Old 3rd January 2017, 20:15   #1907
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

So my dentist insisted i pay his fees in cash though i had taken a cheque along. He used to take only cash earlier but in november/december he did take his fees in cheque twice. Today he clearly told me henceforth i need to pay in cash only. So its back to the old days i reckon...not much has changed for the hoarders.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 21:15   #1908
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Not that I want to defend Corporation Bank nor do I know their maximum password length, but you seem to have fallen prey to the cryptic password myth.
I saw this strange reply on 31st, but I couldn't reply since I was travelling. Your entropy logic is a mere academic exercise because no self-respecting login screen would allow unlimited failed attempts. Most are limited to 5 failed attempts, followed by a lockout period. Passwords made out of well known words are weak in reality because people who can see you typing password from across the table, or from a video recording, can guess the password much easily after seeing the partial keys. I create my passwords using a pattern only I know, which looks jumbled to others. If they see my partial keys, they can't guess the remaining keys. None of the websites I use allow unlimited attempts, so I am not worried about the entropy. In fact, HDFC netbanking locks the account after 5 failures. I have to get a new password by visiting the branch with my ID.

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So my dentist insisted i pay his fees in cash though i had taken a cheque along. He used to take only cash earlier but in november/december he did take his fees in cheque twice. Today he clearly told me henceforth i need to pay in cash only. So its back to the old days i reckon...not much has changed for the hoarders.
Tell him you are switching to a different dentist. These deadbeats tax evaders need to be put in place.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 21:16   #1909
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by spookey View Post
So my dentist insisted i pay his fees in cash though i had taken a cheque along. He used to take only cash earlier but in november/december he did take his fees in cheque twice. Today he clearly told me henceforth i need to pay in cash only. So its back to the old days i reckon...not much has changed for the hoarders.
Try BHIM app. It's really easy for transactions below 20K. Show it to your Dentist too.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 21:17   #1910
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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He used to take only cash earlier but in november/december he did take his fees in cheque twice. Today he clearly told me henceforth i need to pay in cash only.
Is he a senior citizen (or even somewhere near)? They can be a bit more resistant (but not always) to accept newer methods, mostly out of habit and maybe some fear of the unknown.

I guess he's not really averse to non-cash payments, as he had already accepted cheques from you. Cheques can have their own issues, including (but not limited to) filling up challans and dropping 'em in boxes at the bank/ATM.

Maybe you can gently suggest non-cash & non-cheque alternatives, such as a card-swiping machine or electronic bank transfer or some wallet/app.

Last edited by RSR : 3rd January 2017 at 21:35.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 22:04   #1911
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Your entropy logic is a mere academic exercise because no self-respecting login screen would allow unlimited failed attempts. Most are limited to 5 failed attempts, followed by a lockout period.
You are quite right, and this rate-limiting is the accepted way to counter the entropy issue. This is the reason why 4-digit ATM PINs are also acceptable despite the universe being a relatively small set that can be brute-forced manually, even.
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Old 4th January 2017, 02:00   #1912
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Honestly demonetisation is a very bad decision. Bringing one of the largest economy of the world to a grinding halt based on theoretical reasoning and not looking a ground report is crazy. I have no idea what the prime minister was thinking. A lot of change of aims of demonetisation but in the end nobody got anything. Loss of more than 200 lives that is more than 26/11. Being a doctor and a fellow Indian i feel sorry for all the departed souls and worse of the their family member who would still be mourning their loss. Everyone suffered economically. It was too hasty of a decision. I appreciate the vision but a bad implementation can make the best of ideas go bad. Everyone around me suffered economic losses. People took it as a reason to escape from payments. I have gone crazy in the last month sitting on bounced cheques due to reasons like accounts frozen, cheque book not registered, account inaccesible, contact drawer/drawee and i have to make payments to keep my business running. Its all due to excess workload on bankers who werent prepared for it. The economic loss due to this is huge and i get it the system needed to be fixed but doesnt mean to fix something you have to crumble it and build it again. Collateral damage was way too much. Its like draining the water to filter the dirt. There were people who went bankrupt because they just opened a new business/ factory. They didnt get loans from bank but used up their savings. I just hope something good comes out of all this brutal exercise. The economy rebounds and we can live in an economical harmony again and hopefully the system is cleared of the the dirt
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Old 4th January 2017, 02:40   #1913
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I had a couple of incidences where the inconsistencies were on table.

1) My Swift was rear ended, and a local guy had repaired it (details in accidents in India thread). I didn't have 500 rupee note which was the amount to be paid to the guy. ATM was 100 mtrs. away so I went there. No queue ! Little did I know that even cash was not there. 4 machines, two banks. No cash. The repair guy was kind enough to tell me that I can pay later. He isn't a big garage owner, and paying by cash was what he insisted on. I managed somehow. Question is, when will ATM be up and running again ? When will things smoothen out ? Not each and every person can put up POS machine. Any subsidy for doing that would have given better result, i dont know.

2) It's on the charge taken for making payment through card. Innova went in for service, part replacement meant 52000+ bill. Toyota body parts are insanely expensive, rs. 2029 for painting of two ORVM. The amount was never to be paid in cash so did RTGS. It took Narmada Toyota 20+ hours to confirm!
Would have done payment by card were it not for those 2%. Cheque if given would mean car is at dealer end for two days. Usually amount is 3-5K that we pay in cash. Why 2% extra ? May be I am missing something ?

Govt should stop selling apps to me and have concrete stuff, else my faith in system goes down further. Cash crunch is a reality, and cash flow isn't streamlined yet. Absence of any foresight or sheer long term brilliance, I don't know. But root cause is spared, and political blame game is getting old now.

After purchasing Hella rally bulbs, I started process to install Paytm as the shop didn't have electricity, so card wouldn't work. My BSNL 3g mobile connection is usually on E and rarely do I get 3g while my device is 4G. Couldn't install Paytm which is barely a 30 mb application. In real 3g speeds, Paytm would be up and running in my device within couple of mins. Why is the infrastructure not coping up ?

A thorough infrastructure for digital means has to be up and running coupled with complete lack of extra charges for other means of payment. This could have been better planned, and we are yet to see any data analysis of black money that's into system ( iIRC, 90% of black money deposited would go to govt and not banks, correcme if I am wrong ). At the end of the day, was it really worth the trouble? The very small things shared above are nothing serious for me or my family. But on a larger scale, industry and Economy seems to taken a hit, something that's bad news for an economy struggling to create more jobs.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 4th January 2017 at 02:50.
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Old 4th January 2017, 09:48   #1914
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by V12Doc View Post
Honestly demonetisation is a very bad decision. Bringing one of the largest economy of the world to a grinding halt based on theoretical reasoning and not looking a ground report is crazy. I have no idea what the prime minister was thinking. A lot of change of aims of demonetisation but in the end nobody got anything. Loss of more than 200 lives that is more than 26/11... Collateral damage was way too much. Its like draining the water to filter the dirt. There were people who went bankrupt because they just opened a new business/ factory. They didnt get loans from bank but used up their savings.
You're partly right, and those "hailing" the rise of government endorsed bitcoins (which the feds were vehemently against until now, but as long as they and their bankster cartel are middlemen and can swipe commission on each payment then its hunky dory sunshine) are partially right too, but there needs to be a middle ground.

Here are the present assumptions :
- ALL CASH transactions & holdings are evil and illegal.
- Death to the black money!! Hang it, burn it!!
- Poor are saved!! The messiah of digital currency is here.
- Rich/middle class shall be brought to their knees!!! Prepare the kangaroo courts!
- The Government is ALWAYS right, every word they say on the tell-lie-vision is a holy commandment and we're to obey.

Here's the reality :
- Cash is the last remaining solid holding on wealth (alongwith gold & silver), anything less can be destabilized, withdrawn and illegally cut at source.
- Black money was/is created by the "rulers" 999 times out of 1000, I remember I was getting only Rs.1000/- notes fresh out of the press the past year, even if I wanted Rs.100's they gave me Rs.1000/- or at the least, Rs.500/-.
- The poor aren't saved and never will be, as and when the poor upgrade their economic status new poor will take their place and then some more. Money is an imperfect concept and there will be grades of poverty/richness, else if its all flat and equally poor/rich then the only situation that can happen is hyper-deflation or hyper-inflation respectively.
- The rich and middle class are the main drivers of the economy, without their taxes there would be no government so to speak. Whether one admits or not there is a luxury market in today's global economy, certain well to do farmers import cars that well cross 8 digits (and pay an equivalent importy duty on it too), the same applies to every other luxury commodity or service. The government gets tax either way and still finds time to spit on us.
- As for tell-lie-vision, I know better, the news channels are strictly off limits. No amount of debates and pseudo-dumb analyses can help me see the truth.

THAT being said, there are a few industries that need to come under a taxable bracket. The only way to do that is to (unfortunately) curb the big denomination currencies. Alternatively the tax people must investigate all such industries severely, chief among them real-estate where there is scope to show bogus expenses or not report income at all, as you may also be aware, the medical field also has a similar problem though its applicable only to massive hospitals.. for private consultancy I believe the cash system must go on as its a smaller amount and it'll be more accessible to a range of people.

My view is that the economy shall never, ever be perfect. The only two situations that can happen here is the people fooling around when the "authorities" are asleep, or the authorities fooling around when the people are asleep, the latter is happening today. Now I'll get the usual rhetoric of atleast something is being done, and nothing good will come out of sitting on a chair and blaming everyone and everything. I know better not to respond, while my classmates used to be out playing and watching movies during our teens I was catching up on books of Karl Marx, John Keynes and Alfred Marshall, they were relatively practical economists compared to the garbage of today like Ben Bernanke, Paul Krugman and George Soros.

Technology doesn't change the fact that businesses must go on, to service a class of people from the highly paid to the blue-collar. Money must be in rotation, BOTH in paper form and otherwise and no governing authority must make the people choose. A free avenue of expenditure and earning is in the end, the greatest balancing act of the economy and is self-sustaining at that. These are my views and they are non-negotiable.
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Old 4th January 2017, 09:55   #1915
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Honestly demonetisation is a very bad decision. Bringing one of the largest economy of the world to a grinding halt based on theoretical reasoning and not looking a ground report is crazy.
Agree 100% with you doc, when I said the same things I was accused of rumor mongering and one gentleman even posted here that I am going into his blocked list .

Jokes apart, things are not easy anymore. I lost my father in the first week of November, I was lucky enough that I was able to conduct his last rites just days before demonetization, even the crematorium where he was cremated had 3-4 levels of bribes, its still not fixed as one of my relative recently had to bribe again. Todays papers mention vigilance department sitting on stockpiles of cases which they have not even started investigating, it wont even make sense to file a anti corruption case. This was done well just before the elections, nothing has changed, prices are sky rocketing, fuel prices are up 3 times in 1 month. if paying cash the government expects us to prove that the person we are paying doesn't have a bank account, businesses went down, people were about to commit suicide, your best friend cannot loan you money, you cannot pledge gold that easily, tell me how worse can it get?


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I had a couple of incidences where the inconsistencies were on table.
Investors have lost faith, they don't want to invest in india, No black money will get caught, what we see in the news is just some cases to make us feel that great things are happening. I offered to pay my news paper guy with a cheque, he said he will come again. Now people will ask me to educate him about the benefits or ask me to change the vendor, why should I change the vendor? because he is not tech savvy? 99% of his customer are paying using cash, why would he listen to the digital india speech from me?

Now this happened to me last month. I was in Delhi, I took 10k with me as I had a day stay in Delhi, plus I had cards with cash in them. 2k was in change, things could not go wrong, i am all set for the trip, but issues started in the flight I took, cards were not working, and the airhostess didn't have change, so I had to use the change I had, I barely managed to pay my cab fare from the airport to hotel. I downloaded the paytm app and tried my level best to add 2 of my SBT debit cards to it, absolutely no use, every time it asked me to try a different card. I stood in the queue for 45 minutes to get change for the hard earned money I had with me, and the bank officials were not really pleased to deal with me(oh I forgot they had a heroic week/month they were having!).

OT: As an immediate effect to demonetization I saw a huge reduction of superbike dealings, guess what, its back now, I guess most should come out of this denial mode and accept it was just a big hogwash.

pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 4th January 2017 at 09:57.
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Old 4th January 2017, 09:57   #1916
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

People who are saying they are not seeing queues outside ATM's and inferring that situation is getting better - please do actually go to the ATM and check if it is actually functioning or not. I went to two HDFC ATM's in my area (Goregaon, Mumbai) and both of them were empty i.e. had no queues. Why? Not because it has enough cash and things are getting better but they are not functioning at all!

Meanwhile, an uncle of mine gave me his analysis of the situation - "this whole exercise might not achieve what it was supposed to achieve. While the upper middle class and rich people go on with their lives, it is the poor who suffered (as usual). The poor always suffers in life."

I am not sure if demonetization has actually helped in getting back black money. I am not even sure if we will ever find out.
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Old 4th January 2017, 10:11   #1917
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This is very interesting. From a learning perspective would you be able to share some example/s....

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I create my passwords using a pattern only I know, which looks jumbled to others. If they see my partial keys, they can't guess the remaining keys.
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Old 4th January 2017, 10:47   #1918
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I am not sure if govt has demographic data on dry ATMs. That will surely help sort out the problem. I find quite a few ATMs around where I live in Bangalore, having money and no lines. I just withdrew 2 days ago. (Strangely, due to the fact that we have increased our cashless regimen, requirement for cash has reduced further)

I heard other forum members talking of the same in Goa and Kerala. Govt now needs to prioritize areas that still have cash shortage
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Old 4th January 2017, 10:52   #1919
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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This is very interesting. From a learning perspective would you be able to share some example/s....
Create a complex encoding pattern, and remember it well. Then use names and numbers from your past that you won't forget, and encode them using the pattern.

Example: Say you visited Madras in Dec 1995, and have very good memories of it. Now apply a sample pattern like MMM!place@YYYY, where

MMM = DEC
place = mdrs [madras without any vowels]
YY = !( [19 with shift pressed]
YY = 96

Resulting password is DEC!mdrs@!(96

If you apply this to your bank account, just remember it as your memorable madras trip. Just remember the pattern, you can even write it down somewhere without compromising your password. Similarly you can remember different accounts by similar method, your team-bhp password could be the date you met your first girlfriend and her cat's name.

One more thing. Always use your pinky finger or the one next to it, to press the shift key. Makes it very hard to see for a causal observer. And it is good practice to always look around for CC cameras to see whether the keyboard is in line of sight. If so, turn around to block it while typing.
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Old 4th January 2017, 11:13   #1920
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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I am not sure if demonetization has actually helped in getting back black money. I am not even sure if we will ever find out.
The RBI had suddenly stopped giving out details of the demonetised notes that have come back into the banking system after Dec. 10 or so. I wonder why???

If they had nothing to worry about, why did they suddenly stop releasing the data?

The RBI may be a government associated organisation, but it happens to be one of those rare ones (among others such as the ECI) that have a constitutional mandate to discharge their duties in an autonomous manner.

Erosion of the autonomy mandated on such organisations is a very, very bad thing for the country. I hope the RBI releases the data as it used to do before Dec. 10 or so.

Last edited by RSR : 4th January 2017 at 11:17.
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