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Old 21st February 2017, 11:45   #2311
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Or are they not willing to share that info now, risking public anger since almost all the cash came back? Why the delay?
This is purely my opinion/thought that those who wanted to turn up any stashed money would have done it via some scheme that came out prior to demonetization. The penalty post demonetization was such that there were certain legal actions plus a huge penalty. The Jan Dhan accounts could have been used too.
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Old 21st February 2017, 13:23   #2312
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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This is purely my opinion/thought that those who wanted to turn up any stashed money would have done it via some scheme that came out prior to demonetization. The penalty post demonetization was such that there were certain legal actions plus a huge penalty. The Jan Dhan accounts could have been used too.
No but we are not talking about how people laundered their money. The point here is that since the Government came up with this scheme and was pretty much high on communicating the aspects of the scheme with the entire nation then now they should tell us the result too, regardless of pass or fail. We all went through our share of hardships, some more than others. We have a right to know the final figure that made its way into the system. Everyone was talking about a windfall gain of around 2-3L crores easily ( as the money that won't come back). So what is the final figure?
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Old 21st February 2017, 14:41   #2313
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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No but we are not talking about how people laundered their money. The point here is that since the Government came up with this scheme and was pretty much high on communicating the aspects of the scheme with the entire nation then now they should tell us the result too, regardless of pass or fail. We all went through our share of hardships, some more than others. We have a right to know the final figure that made its way into the system. Everyone was talking about a windfall gain of around 2-3L crores easily ( as the money that won't come back). So what is the final figure?
I guess the elections have put a stop to the flow of information. Surely most, if not all of the money has come back. Admitting that fact during election season will be disaster. I guess we can expect some quiet press release once the election excitement has died down.
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Old 21st February 2017, 15:41   #2314
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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I guess the elections have put a stop to the flow of information. Surely most, if not all of the money has come back. Admitting that fact during election season will be disaster. I guess we can expect some quiet press release once the election excitement has died down.
Very strictly whatever we may get is not the final figure.

Remember the deadline is 31 March. What I hear from a friend who should know the final figure after deleting the duplicates is like to be in the neighborhood of 90%. However, as I said, till March 31 (or ather a week after then), we cannot have the exact figures.
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Old 21st February 2017, 16:58   #2315
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Remember the deadline is 31 March. What I hear from a friend who should know the final figure after deleting the duplicates is like to be in the neighborhood of 90%. However, as I said, till March 31 (or ather a week after then), we cannot have the exact figures.
The media and other vested interests clearly seem to hide the fact that identifying "unaccounted money" is not going to be an easy task. The first part of the demonetization; i.e surrendering the notes in the bank was only the first step. At this point of time only one type "black money" would get culled. That would be counterfeit notes, or money earned through true blue criminal activities (depositing that wealth would get the person go behind bars for criminal deeds; eg: pimping & prostituition).

The bigger chunk of "black money" is actually good Indian currency notes, which have been kept away from the accounting systems. Now all of them have landed up in banks. But that also does NOT mean that any body who has deposited money during the demonetization drive is a "black money" holder by default. The banks and agencies are now on the process of:-
1. Scanning through the bank deposits which saw a pattern of large deposits during the demonetisation drive, or which saw a spike in usage etc.
2. Scanning these accounts (using PAN #, Aadhar # etc.) to see if these are multiple accounts of a same individual. Because this is required to understand the true worth of the person, and to figure out how much money he has deposited across all accounts.
3. Once steps #1 & #2 are complete; the IT department would start issuing notices to the account holders asking for explanation. The govt. is in this stage now. People have started getting E-Mail and SMS notices, and they can give their explanation by logging onto an online portal. This is also a legal requirement, as even a hardened criminal has the right to be heard (tried in a judicial court).
4. Once step #3 is done, people also have the facility to confess their tax evasion and then pay a very hefty penalty (55% odd). They have time till March 31st to do this. Once they do this, 45% of their deposits would also become "white money".

So only after Step 4 is completed, will the government be able to clearly tell the black money and white money components. At this stage, they can only reveal the total amounts which have come to the bank. Now this amount cannot be 100% black money, or 100% white money. It would be some where in between. And to figure out the black money %-age, accounts have to be tallied up, and the account holder given a chance to explain his actions.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 09:39   #2316
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

@sachinpk; Sometimes I wonder if we had spent even 10% of our talents in hiding money into productive work then things would have been different. We have been very creative in devising ways of circumventing the demonetization. What the Demonetization or Demonization (according to those hit hard) has achieved, is to get a few lakh crores into the 'system' so hopefully will earn taxes for the state. Rest we can argue about.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 13:42   #2317
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I am flabbergasted that there are people who still are optimistic about this and/or refuse to see through. Let me pour some cold water. The whole process was a complete failure.

These are the net results:

- The country lost some money printing new notes.
- People went through some hardships. Some died and became statistics.
- Bank staff went through sleepless nights
- Some businesses like PayTM flourished.
- A lot of people started transacting without cash.

Its time we stop wasting time discussing this and get on with our lives.

Last edited by Eddy : 22nd February 2017 at 14:46. Reason: Removed off topic portion
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Old 22nd February 2017, 16:00   #2318
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Well I can not judge how demonetization worked through the country. But I can surely say based on my brothers business, it was bad thing happened for him and good thing for the country. How ?

My brother has small business, where he builds generators and sell. He is doing this business for last 6-8 years and it was all cash business. No Tax compliance at all. No VAT/ Service Tax or even Income Tax. Which was all illegal. And he is normal really good behaving human, according to him Tax payment his burden on him. He always thinks that tax payment is robbery (in fact true) and government should not take his money at all. He used to think that tax paying is not his liability.

Then suddenly demonetization happened. The cash business of his got affected. No sell happened for two months. He had invested more than 10L in the material with loan. He is person from lower strata who barely can afford four wheeler. It was big gamble for him.

Now what happened in December, demand picked up again after little pause. But with a twist. Customers started demanding all transactions in white. All payments through cheque. Stringent tax compliance has been demanded by his customers. Brother has to apply for VAT and he has also requested tax compliance from his vendors. So the chain he is working is now under tax compliance, all transactions are happening through bank now. Brother has to adjust his thinking line about tax liability as well.

Whether this is demonetization effect? Whether this is good? How long this will continue? All are wise people in this group, so all are capable of making judgement.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 22nd February 2017 at 16:03.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 20:40   #2319
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

And next time you are in a hurry to withdraw some cash,please double check you have the "Reserve Bank of India" notes and not some "Children bank of India"

This is not even a joke anymore.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/at-sb...-lateststories
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Old 23rd February 2017, 07:35   #2320
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
My brother has small business, where he builds generators and sell. He is doing this business for last 6-8 years and it was all cash business. No Tax compliance at all. No VAT/ Service Tax or even Income Tax. Which was all illegal. And he is normal really good behaving human, according to him Tax payment his burden on him. He always thinks that tax payment is robbery (in fact true) and government should not take his money at all. He used to think that tax paying is not his liability.

Whether this is demonetization effect? Whether this is good? How long this will continue? All are wise people in this group, so all are capable of making judgement.
Are you justifying your brothers business and his thoughts that tax is a robbery.. If so sorry mate I can understand your feelings but calling tax a robbery is way too much. Your brother is using all the public infrastructure and facilities contributed by honest tax payers.. Tax is a necessary evil period. Give some time for this humongous drive to show its true effects (good or bad) as it is too early.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 07:59   #2321
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Are you justifying your brothers business and his thoughts that tax is a robbery.

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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
I can surely say based on my brothers business, it was bad thing happened for him and good thing for the country.
Doesn't sound like it - more like, an expression of mild satisfaction and happiness that a tax defaulter got his comeuppance.

To those who consider all taxes as robbery - please remember that taxes (and other government revenue streams) pay for defense, foreign relations, law & order, judiciary, healthcare, some infrastructure, education and many other important aspects of life.

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And next time you are in a hurry to withdraw some cash,please double check you have the "Reserve Bank of India" notes and not some "Children bank of India"

This is not even a joke anymore.
What is your point? ATMs in India have always dispensed fake notes - sad, but true. See, for example:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle5596161.ece
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...o-ATM-20150915
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/55657251.cms

So while the instance you quote is whimsical, I fail to see how it relates to any discussion on the success or failure of the demonetisation programme.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:39   #2322
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Are you justifying your brothers business and his thoughts that tax is a robbery.. If so sorry mate I can understand your feelings but calling tax a robbery is way too much. Your brother is using all the public infrastructure and facilities contributed by honest tax payers.. Tax is a necessary evil period. Give some time for this humongous drive to show its true effects (good or bad) as it is too early.
I was not justifing the action of brother. But the satisfaction that some good thing happened and people started following tax compliance.

Wanted to explain general thought process of small business owners before and after demonetisation.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 14:12   #2323
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Now what happened in December, demand picked up again after little pause. But with a twist. Customers started demanding all transactions in white. All payments through cheque. Stringent tax compliance has been demanded by his customers. Brother has to apply for VAT and he has also requested tax compliance from his vendors. So the chain he is working is now under tax compliance, all transactions are happening through bank now. Brother has to adjust his thinking line about tax liability as well.

Whether this is demonetization effect? Whether this is good? How long this will continue? All are wise people in this group, so all are capable of making judgement.
That's good overall. Now, Govt. gets the money (tax) it deserves, they can spend better on infrastructure and at the same time your brother's business can prosper. Ask him to wait and watch for a few more months.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 14:50   #2324
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
I was not justifing the action of brother. But the satisfaction that some good thing happened and people started following tax compliance.

Wanted to explain general thought process of small business owners before and after demonetisation.
Sorry bro I misinterpreted your statement as you had ended it with a "how". My aim of the post was that, it is not only your brother but a majority of population that feels Tax is robbery by the govt. As "Binand" has brought out Taxation is important and the earlier the majority understands it the better for our nation
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Old 23rd February 2017, 15:01   #2325
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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My aim of the post was that, it is not only your brother but a majority of population that feels Tax is robbery by the govt.
There may be good reasons to think so:

1. Those paying the taxes are at or below the bottom of the queue of beneficiaries. If the taxpayer is to be given a decent share (say 30%) of the revenue in the form of services or facilities then he may be more inclined to pay up. When it comes to giving back all sorts of excuses, like poverty (maybe some justification), community, and caste are pulled out. Social justice can go this far and not all the way.

2. Widespread corruption and waste spoils the pitch.

3. I for one cannot understand as to why the big farmers are kept out of the tax net.

Another factor, at one time the Income Tax was over 96% or so. Naturally people finding it grossly unfair, developed a habit of hiding income, and this habit continues. Bad habits once developed are very difficult to break.
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