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Old 31st August 2017, 00:03   #2461
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
No one seems to know where the old notes have gone nor where the new ones are going. Phrases like Dig the mountain, Catch a mouse and Much Ado About Nothing are gaining relevance by the day.
They are giving it another spin now. To quote from below economic times article

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/60298107.cms

Quote:
Finance Minister Arun Jaitley said the objective of demonetisation was to shift India from a predominantly high cash economy
So basically they wanted to bring liquidity to banks who were under stress due to their bad loans decisions. No doubt that biggest beneficiary of demonetization exercise is SBI. Latest list below -

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bus...s-2372269.html

Quote:
Among other loan defaulting companies -- Uttam Galva, Castex, Jayswal Neco, Ruchi Soya, Nagarjuna Oil & Orchid Chemicals, East Coast Energy, SEL Manufacturing, Soma Enterprises, Asian Colour, Ispat Coated and Unity Infraprojects – are among the fresh list identified by the central bank to be referred to the NCLT under the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code (IBC).
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Old 31st August 2017, 06:20   #2462
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

If anyone wants to read the non governmental view read:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41100610

No surprise there though; that a very small amount of black wealth was/is held in notes was well known even to the income tax department.

Those that think for themselves have known for a long time what the real reasons for this draconian action were. But one must remember the basic principles of propaganda: that when something is said often enough and loudly enough by enough people in power, it becomes the truth.
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Old 31st August 2017, 09:10   #2463
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
They too had their own stash of old 1000 rs notes to fix. Idea was to show the people that govt is doing something. Everything this govt have done have failed miserable so far in my books at least.

Demonetization - Everything about results is shrouded in secrecy with no numbers coming out. Govt flip flops only added to the feeling that it was a exercise in futility with no clear goal.

GST - It have ended up creating more profits for companies. I am yet to see any company passing on lower tax to end user like us. On top of it, Mr FM is busy patting his back in media. Only thing they have done well is media management.

I am very keen to see the results of 2019 elections. They still have 2 years to go for same and opportunity to do something good is very limited now.
Exactly. And at the risk of going a bit off topic, when a terror incident occurs, all we do is "Kadi Ninda". God only knows if that "surgical strike" really happened.
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Old 31st August 2017, 09:39   #2464
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Exactly. And at the risk of going a bit off topic, when a terror incident occurs, all we do is "Kadi Ninda". God only knows if that "surgical strike" really happened.
Well that's How it worked.

For example, I have 50 Lakhs black cash and need to be fixed. Naturally if i am dealing in such huge cash pile, i am a business man and would have 10-20 people on my rolls. Given the way govt have been squeezing Poor & middle class citizens, none of these 10-20 are expected to have any savings as such in hard cash.

So i simple give them a bonus of 10-15 K, ask them to deposit allowed 2.5 lakh in their back accounts and all my 50 L are white suddenly. That;s why So called Jan dhan accounts got huge cash deposits during demonetization.



Ratio of Poor to rich is pretty wide. no doubt they failed miserably.
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Old 31st August 2017, 09:58   #2465
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Well that's How it worked.

For example, I have 50 Lakhs black cash and need to be fixed. Naturally if i am dealing in such huge cash pile, i am a business man and would have 10-20 people on my rolls. Given the way govt have been squeezing Poor & middle class citizens, none of these 10-20 are expected to have any savings as such in hard cash.

Ratio of Poor to rich is pretty wide. no doubt they failed miserably.
I am not too sure they failed miserably. Tax revenues up, no. of tax payees up, black economy down, so imho they succeeded quite well. Today the bank queues are a faded memory.
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Old 31st August 2017, 10:20   #2466
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Well, the whole demonetization episode was an 'epic failure' indeed. Like the proverb "Burning the house down to kill the rat". Honestly, we don't even know whether the rat was killed or not. But what we do know is that there was loss of human lives (I am not sure why no one is talking about this) as a direct result of this decision. Now, that is unacceptable.

The biggest proof that this was a failure is when they changed the narrative to "well.. we did this to promote digital payments!!". And with regards to Tax revenues, tax payers being up, I am not sure whether it is linked to the demonetization. In any case, there are better ways to get to that. Overall, a very severe step for meagre returns (if any at all).
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Old 31st August 2017, 10:23   #2467
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I am not too sure they failed miserably. Tax revenues up, no. of tax payees up, black economy down, so imho they succeeded quite well. Today the bank queues are a faded memory.
It is the small fish with only a few crores that were caught. Most of the whales have stashed their moolah in international tax havens (remember Panama papers, Channel islands, St. Kitts etc), created shell companies, "invested" in business and what not. Now they are thumbing the nose of the Govt. when the raids are happening.

I will take with a pinch of salt what the current Govt. is claiming about demonetisation effects.

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Exactly. God only knows if that "surgical strike" really happened.
Off topic : Surgical strike is what USA did to hunt down OBL in neighbouring country. Wary of hearing projecting tiny successes as massive achievements.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 31st August 2017 at 11:29.
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Old 31st August 2017, 10:37   #2468
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Another dimension of the currency ban fiasco is this: Currency printing cost more than doubles to ₹7,965 crore


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle9837136.ece

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They shouldn't have introduced the Rs.2000 currency in the first place. The entire purpose of withdrawing the Rs.1000 was defeated by this single foolish move.
Totally agree.

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post

GST - It have ended up creating more profits for companies. I am yet to see any company passing on lower tax to end user like us. ...
I am very keen to see the results of 2019 elections. They still have 2 years to go for same and opportunity to do something good is very limited now.
There were some. Jaguar RR, Audi, BMW, Merc...etc. and the products they sell were being slapped with a 25% extra tax for this goodwill measure. I'd say if they stood as a cartel - just like the cement companies did - and refused to reduce a single rupee, this extra tax wouldn't have been slapped.

Cement was exempted from GST and it was trumpeted that cement prices will fall after the GST rollout. Just look at what the cement companies did; they acted as a cartel and simply increased the price of the cement .

The unbeatable Modi can be defeated by one man and one animal. Arun Jaitly and Bos taurus.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 31st August 2017 at 10:40.
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Old 31st August 2017, 11:31   #2469
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I refuse to believe the official version of 99% of the notes coming back. It is literally impossible. There sure has been a scam, and the difference has gone into the party coffers.
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Old 31st August 2017, 11:53   #2470
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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I refuse to believe the official version of 99% of the notes coming back. It is literally impossible. There sure has been a scam, and the difference has gone into the party coffers.
If one remembers, political parties did not have the requirement to "account" any "donations" which were INR 20,000 or less.
A sum of, say 2 Cr, could have been accounted as 1000 donations of 20000 each without coming under the radar of the Income Tax. There are many "creative" was of de-donating" back to them. Given these, it is not surprising that close to 99% of the currency have been returned to the reserve bank.

I, for one, am interested in public information from the Income Tax department with regards the quantum of "disproportionate" deposits and convictions thereof. This would be the acid test of the entire exercise. Transparency with regards to who are the entities where such irregularities were identified and extent of penalties is necessary.
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Old 31st August 2017, 22:09   #2471
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I am not too sure they failed miserably. Tax revenues up, no. of tax payees up, black economy down, so imho they succeeded quite well.
The above claim by the govt. about tax revenues and tax payers has been debunked thoroughly. There is no substantial rise in the number of tax payers or direct tax collection due to demonitisation. If you have the time and inclination, see analysis at https://thewire.in/168434/fact-check...-direct-taxes/
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Old 31st August 2017, 22:37   #2472
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1)14,000 properties of Rs 1 cr each under scanner: I-T dept......
2)Cash deposits of ₹ 2.89 lakh crore post demonetisation under I-T dept. radar

Being "on radar" is one thing, but actually serving notices to suspected financial dealers, getting their statements and then prosecuting them in case of wrong doing is not a very simple task in India. But I am getting a feeling that come Lok Sabha election time, there could be some grand cases/investigations/reports which would start coming out.

The news reports do repeatedly say 99% of the money has come back. But how?? That is not explained any where. Did they all land up during the time when any body could exchange cash across the bank window? Or did they actually landed up into bank accounts. In case of landing up in bank accounts, it means that the depositors also painted a good target on their back side.

I don't think the game is over ... yet.
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:10   #2473
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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I, for one, am interested in public information from the Income Tax department with regards the quantum of "disproportionate" deposits and convictions thereof. This would be the acid test of the entire exercise.
I agree, but I don't see this coming. For one, it will take years to complete and public memory is short.

I don't believe that the people that deposited the 99% back in banks are fools that did not know the consequences of doing so and they will have for the most part solid defences in place for every notice that is sent. Thankfully we are still a nation of laws and nothing arbitrary can be done against defences that are legitimate. Or be those like housewives and other small fry that individually are too small to be pursued; if nothing else, for lack of bandwidth.

An interesting comment I read today was how as a nation we seem to have moved from being supportive of each other and questioning of those in power to being suspicious of each other and having blind faith in the leadership.

There is still no hue and cry about the root cause and source of black wealth - flawed tax laws and the corrupt administration of these by those in power.

The good thing is that all this is a wheel, that will never stop turning. What goes around, comes around.

Our real tragedy is the complete lack of a credible opposition, something that is also our karma in play on a national level.
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Old 1st September 2017, 10:55   #2474
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An interesting comment I read today was how as a nation we seem to have moved from being supportive of each other and questioning of those in power to being suspicious of each other and having blind faith in the leadership.
.
When the fourth estate spews out stuff like this, very easy to sway the layman's perceptions.

A Demonetisation Death Story !

Reporter : Sir, a 23 year old boy died as he was run over by a train while walking on the railway track with headphones.

Editor: OK good, report it as a case of suicide due to lack of money after Demonetisation.

Reporter: But Sir, he had money in his wallet. They found over 10,000 rupees.

Editor: OK, in that case report it as suicide due to his inability to exchange the same.

Reporter: But Sir, he had many 50 and 100 rupee notes in his valet.

Editor: Hmmm, then report that he was in ATM queue for 6 hours without food and lost consciousness on railway track.

Reporter: But Sir, this happened early in the morning. In addition to it, there are no ATMs near railway track.

Editor: Then you can say, he was pushed on the railway track by people who didn't have money after Demonetisation.

Reporter: No Sir, there was nobody anywhere near him when he died.

Editor: You're too stubborn. Why don't you report it as suicide because he lost all his savings due to Demonetisation ?

Reporter: But Sir, he was a 23 year old student.

Editor: Oh, in that case we can report it as a case of inability to pay fees due to Demonetisation.

Reporter: How's that possible Sir ? He had enough money with him!

Editor (Cutting him off): You can say, he was in need of money for his hostel fees and daily food. When he didn't have money as per his requirements, he committed suicide.

Reporter: But Sir, he was staying at home with family and his house is located close to the place where the accident occurred.

Editor: I don't know. Do what you want, but you MUST report it as a Demonetisation Death.

Reporter: Sir, isn't that wrong and unethical ? There is absolutely no connection to his death and Demonetisation.

Editor: My media is sustained by this reporting. You must connect it. Else I won't have money to pay your salary & either of us will have to commit suicide!

The Reporter reported:

23 year old youth ran over by a train while watching Modi's Demonetisation speech on his mobile !
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Old 1st September 2017, 11:18   #2475
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Funniest thing I read somewhere is, FM mentioned that stone pelting in JK has reduced because of demonetization.
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