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Old 11th November 2016, 16:31   #421
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I really don't see sense in re introducing new 500 , 1000 , 2000 notes again. Parallel economy will start again from scratch after a few months when these new note come widely in circulation. Great opportunity lost towards moving to a digital payments dominant economy.
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Old 11th November 2016, 16:38   #422
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Do you have money in hand to take care of expenses or are you ready to face things as they come by?
Nope. I do not have cash at hand and plan to face things as they come.
I have a bundle of 1000 and 500 that I have collected from my family members so that only I will have to take the effort to get it exchanged. I will deposit it after a couple of weeks and make NEFT transfers to those whom I collected it from. The amount is small enough to not raise questions.
I will not withdraw money anytime soon even though I have three ATMs and two banks right opposite to my house. Let the ones who are in need of cash get it first.

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
This is not the first time such a move happened, it happened 3 times before in independent India
Demonetization may have happened but was it in a similar fashion? I doubt it.
Look at the beauty of the move - an announcement made after all the banks closed for the day. A move that has been preceded by several steps that make it possible for a sudden demonetization.

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The country is not at war
We had to fight to get the ticket from the corrupt BMTC conductor and get a clean deal when buying property. We had to fight all alone.
Look at it now my friend. We are all up in arms against it now. The whole country. Hoarders are running like mice to keep what does not belong to them. Is this not war?

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Isn't medical emergency a valid concern?
It is by all means. No doubt.
And we have to do what ever we can to help those who are in need.
But is this something we can eliminate? Can we flush out the cancer in the economy without inconveniencing a single citizen?
I guess the answer is no. Had this operation been announced in advance the mice would have found a way to hide their cheese.
Since it is not possible, we must by all means help the folks in need, especially who have medical needs.

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Most places that accept cards ask us to pay an additional 2.5%.
Can we not pay the 2.5% extra in case of an emergency?
Isnt it a small sacrifice in the bigger scheme of things to pay 2.5% extra for a couple of days?
For Rs.1 Lakh it would amount to Rs.2500.

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Hoarders might be shocked initially but most have done ingenious things to convert their hoards into gold..
Most??? Are you saying most have converted?
Friend I think this is not true. "Most" converting in 3 days?
Here is a piece of text I found on "statisticstimes" website :
"According to International Monetary Fund World Economic Outlook (April-2015), GDP (nominal) of India in 2014 at current prices is $2,049.5 billion."
Black money is estimated at 20% GDP. Are we saying that $408 billion has been converted to other form in 3 days?

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Do you really think we have a choice? with the upper limit capped at 10k a week, I am sure people cant really go nuts withdrawing money
We can but should not. We should refrain from hoarding new notes and let the ones who need it the most get it first. That and help those in need. Specially with respect to educating people about their options.

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
I lost my father last week, I cannot imagine about people who might loose their loved ones this week, imagine not able to conduct last rites just because the hoarders are to be shocked
I am really sorry for your loss.
I do know that this shakedown can cause hardship to a lot of people, you included. And I am not going to argue with you on this front.

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
My only request to people like you is to stop rubbing salt on the wounds people have by saying we need to sacrifice and nation needs to sacrifice for a greater good
This was never my intention and I stand nothing to gain from it.
But it has to be said that we do need to endure some pains for the greater good.
It is unfortunate that your situation is a lot worse that the majority.
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Old 11th November 2016, 16:38   #423
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by spookey View Post
I really don't see sense in re introducing new 500 , 1000 , 2000 notes again. Parallel economy will start again from scratch after a few months when these new note come widely in circulation.
Would you stop cleaning the house just because it will be dirty again? This is a cleanup after 38 years.

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Originally Posted by spookey View Post
Great opportunity lost towards moving to a digital payments dominant economy.
Until every person in India is equipped for digital payments, cash is required. We are pretty far from cashless economy.
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Old 11th November 2016, 16:49   #424
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Exchange of notes with new notes, a person can do that only once till 31st December. As understood by everybody, it is not per day Rs.4000. More clarification is found at

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/55369778.cms

Now this is really interesting. Daily exchange of Rs.4000 cash was seen as loop hole by black money hoarders.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:01   #425
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Would you stop cleaning the house just because it will be dirty again? This is a cleanup after 38 years.
.
Great argument, but factually higher denominations fuel corruption and inflation. We very rarely get to see 10 notes now a days.People have the audacity to write off 5Rs change.
But RBI and Govt will continue to issue higher denomination notes like 500 and 1000 due to operational reasons. Imagine if you load 100Rs notes in an ATM, the machine can take max Rs 2L per loading. This will get over in a matter of few withdrawals and will need frequent refilling. So operational costs will rise. Same with storage and logistics.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:01   #426
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
Exchange of notes with new notes, a person can do that only once till 31st December..
How would they enforce that , i wonder? When i went to the bank on the first day, i saw that the notes were exchanged with the requisite paper work and the entry in the system was done afterwards. Even assuming that it is done prior to exchange, would all the banks/branches be connected to check this? Doubt it.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:13   #427
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by earthian View Post
How would they enforce that , i wonder? When i went to the bank on the first day, i saw that the notes were exchanged with the requisite paper work and the entry in the system was done afterwards. Even assuming that it is done prior to exchange, would all the banks/branches be connected to check this? Doubt it.

Technically it is possible to do it as many times as you want. But later data is in the system for the analysis. Data from all the banks will be consolidated. The person names, the branches where it is deposited, how much amount.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:16   #428
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by spookey View Post
I really don't see sense in re introducing new 500 , 1000 , 2000 notes again. Parallel economy will start again from scratch after a few months when these new note come widely in circulation
You are missing one small information that the PM made. The percentage of high denomination notes printed will be far less than what was printed earlier. This will ensure the too much of black money cannot be stored. People keeping inappropriately huge amounts cannot have 100rupees bundles and will not get enough 500 and 2000 denomination notes.

His exact lines are quoted below:
Quote:
New notes of 500 rupees and 2,000 rupees, with completely new design will be introduced. Based on past experience, the Reserve Bank will hereafter make arrangements to limit the share of high denomination notes in the total currency in circulation.

Last edited by hemanth.anand : 11th November 2016 at 17:20.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:16   #429
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by earthian View Post
How would they enforce that , i wonder? When i went to the bank on the first day, i saw that the notes were exchanged with the requisite paper work and the entry in the system was done afterwards. Even assuming that it is done prior to exchange, would all the banks/branches be connected to check this? Doubt it.
It's nearly impossible to enforce this. First of all i don't think there is a central system in place to handle reconciliation of things such as this. Even if there is one, let's say based on Aadhaar, a person can use different IDs (PAN, Voter Id, Passport etc) and not all of them may be linked in a central database. Any manual reconciliation exercise post Dec 30 would come at a significant operational cost.
Already the banking staff are over burdened with this exercise which would affect regular financial transactions over next few weeks.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:20   #430
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

and now for some comic relief
Quote:
In India, 65 per cent of the population does not have bank accounts and such people —largely illiterate, poor, old and living in remote areas —store their money in cash, she said. "They will fall victim to middlemen who will scare them that the notes are worthless and charge them hefty fees to convert them. They will also be ripped off by shopkeepers,".

This policy ... is only meant for the blue blood and not for the sweating, red-blooded, toiling millions. It is not going to affect those who have numbered accounts in Swiss accounts, but will hit those who do not have any bank account even in India."
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...3.cms?from=mdr
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:28   #431
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

There are people advertising by sending messages that their establishment will accept old notes for their business/ services. Is it not illegal to accept these notes?
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:30   #432
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
It's nearly impossible to enforce this. First of all i don't think there is a central system in place to handle reconciliation of things such as this. Even if there is one, let's say based on Aadhaar, a person can use different IDs (PAN, Voter Id, Passport etc) and not all of them may be linked in a central database. Any manual reconciliation exercise post Dec 30 would come at a significant operational cost.
Already the banking staff are over burdened with this exercise which would affect regular financial transactions over next few weeks.
Well there is way, provided if the exchange entries are made into system with scanning of id proof.

There is already a system which analyses ID proof scans and extract the data. And there is a solution to do data crunching even considering possibilty of different persons with same name. All these parts of framework are already with IT department.

This thing will fail if fake id cards are used every time. What is important in this exercise is, what follows after December, and off course commitment of enforcement officials.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 11th November 2016 at 17:31.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:55   #433
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Just saw an update in ToI that Toll exemption on NH has been extended till Nov 14 midnight.
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Old 11th November 2016, 17:56   #434
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Expected results are visible now after demonetization.

Here you go:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/55371390.cms


Quote:
SBI today said it has received deposits worth Rs 53,000 crore <in one and half day> and has exchanged currency worth about Rs 1,500 crore so far.

The bank has been able to press into service only about half of its ATM network nationwide.

Last edited by SDP : 11th November 2016 at 18:15. Reason: adding a snippet from the actual news.
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Old 11th November 2016, 18:16   #435
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by arvindmanju View Post
Is it not illegal to accept these notes?
There are large supermarkets still accepting this in Chennai and I think this is the ones who are doing all their trade in white. So they will anyway deposit all their cash into the bank before Dec 31st..
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