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Old 15th November 2016, 19:56   #751
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Taxation is theft. [...] We put up with it only because we don't have the power not to pay taxes.
I imagine many worthies before you have treated the taxation system with similar disdain. Yet, it is not immediately clear to me how something as mundane as law & order is expected to function in a taxless society of the kind you envisage. Usage based payment system? Rs. 500 to register FIR + Rs. 2500 per day of investigation + expenses reimbursed at actuals? Chargesheet filing and court appearances chargeable extras?
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Old 15th November 2016, 20:02   #752
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Seeing ATMs shut shop, I decided to go to my HDFC bank branch in the morning. The token arrangements were good, one for cash withdrawals, other for deposits and another for exchange. Had to wait for about 45 mins as there was about 12 people ahead of me. Processing could have been faster if the teller was focused and stopped having small talk with his team members.
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Old 15th November 2016, 21:07   #753
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I have a question lingering in my mind on why Govt is very slow in rolling out the new 500 note and totally withdrew 1000 for the moment. Then there is a post or letter from a CA guy floating around in the net about something called Peak theory. Does this really make sense or is a simple hoax? Can any one with accounting background throw some light?
http://www.firstpost.com/india/expla...h-3104068.html
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Scenario A: If as per your suggestion, Rs 2,000 notes are not issued, but only new Rs 1,000 notes are issued.
Lets say, for example X has Rs 1,00,000 black money in 100 old notes of Rs 1,000 each.
X divides Rs 1,00,000 into 10 equal bundles, each comprising of 10 old notes of Rs 1,000 each and puts each stack on a table.
On Day 1, in the morning, X would deposit the first bundle i.e. 10 old notes of Rs 1,000 valued at Rs 10,000 in the bank and in the evening, he would withdraw 10 new notes of Rs 1,000 again valued at Rs 10,000 and put it in the locker in his house.
Now the real game starts.
On Day 2, in the morning, X would deposit the second bundle of 10 old notes of Rs 1,000 valued at Rs 10,000. However, in his books of accounts submitted to the Income Tax Department, he will show that he has deposited the same 10 new notes which was withdrawn on Day 1 evening (which is actually still lying in the locker of his house)
On Day 2 evening, X would again withdraw 10 new notes of Rs 1,000 valued at Rs 10,000 and keep the same in the locker. So at the end of Day 2, X has Rs 80,000 on the table in old notes and Rs 20,000 in new notes in the locker.
Now, Day 3 will come in next week as limit of Rs 20,000 per week.
The same exercise will continue till Day 10 and by the end of Day 10, X will have no old notes and Rs 1,00,000 in 100 new Rs 1, 000 notes in the locker.
However, to the Income Tax Department, X has shown that he was having only Rs 10,000 as black money initially ( i.e. one bundle of 10 notes of Rs 1,000) and he has rotated the same Rs 10,000 by depositing it into the bank account in the morning and withdrawing it in the evening and again redepositing the same on next day and so on.
Thus, X has paid tax only on initial Rs 10,000 whereas he has managed to convert all his black money of Rs 1,00,000 into new notes.
This modus operandi is called Peak Theory i.e. the theory of rotation of the same money which is accepted by most of the high courts and tribunals. The Revenue Department is also sometimes helpless to catch X because the above scenario can also occur in genuine cases where you withdraw money from the bank to purchase something and then when you think that no good deal is available, you may again deposit the same money into your bank account and hence logically are not required to pay tax again.
Disclaimer: At time of writing this letter, it was known that the bank deposit slip did not have bifurcation between old and new notes and is based on the assumption that AIR information to AO will also contain information about total cash deposits.
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Old 15th November 2016, 21:24   #754
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I have no accounting background. But this is crap (for the lack of a better word that can pass through moderator eyes here).
The CA letter I mean.

To beat his peak theory, all you need to do is ensure there is a clear demarcation between people depositing new notes and old notes. Then you cannot simply withdraw new notes and deposit old notes back again to fool the system. If you indeed can, you are better off not going through this excersice of demonetisation itself.
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Old 15th November 2016, 21:31   #755
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

My collegemate in Bangalore has developed an app https://atm.mapshalli.org showing the status of working ATMs. So far 540 ATMs are mapped and out of which 30 are dispensing cash (as of now).

One can edit the app to "working" or "not working" or "don't know" so that it helps others to find out the working ATM. If you click the ATM icon, it shows even the approximate no of persons in the queue.

Last edited by RGK : 15th November 2016 at 21:33. Reason: Added content
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Old 15th November 2016, 22:00   #756
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by RGK View Post
My collegemate in Bangalore has developed an app https://atm.mapshalli.org showing the status of working ATMs. So far 540 ATMs are mapped and out of which 30 are dispensing cash (as of now).

One can edit the app to "working" or "not working" or "don't know" so that it helps others to find out the working ATM. If you click the ATM icon, it shows even the approximate no of persons in the queue.
This is pretty neat! Crowd sourcing should elevate the problem to some extent. I am going to share this all over the place!
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Old 15th November 2016, 23:03   #757
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This is pretty neat! Crowd sourcing should elevate the problem to some extent. I am going to share this all over the place!
Walnut has also added a find working atm's feature.
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Old 15th November 2016, 23:08   #758
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Team, just a soft reminder of forum rule no. 13; no political discussions please. You may discuss the pros & cons of the move, but please keep it to that.

Thanks!
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Old 15th November 2016, 23:15   #759
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Do we currently have this in India. If not we really need to get this in place and spread the message that they are ultra safe to use.

P.s: Can you guide me if you have accurate info related to credit card fraud.
This is slightly OT, but here goes. We have laws which protect you in case of a fraud, although not as stringent as in the west. Also, I cannot comment on how banks treat this when things do go wrong. But here is an article that might throw some light.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/15112...bit-card-fraud

You could also buy card protection insurance. Many banks which issue cards also sell this insurance. That will surely protect you completely. Just ensure that you read and understand the clauses well. You might have a small liability even in this case.
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Old 15th November 2016, 23:43   #760
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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My collegemate in Bangalore has developed an app https://atm.mapshalli.org showing the status of working ATMs. So far 540 ATMs are mapped and out of which 30 are dispensing cash (as of now).
Excellent work. Could you explain how does app know which ATM working and which is not?
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Old 16th November 2016, 00:11   #761
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Just heard from my family that the cooperative banks are not permitting both withdrawls or exchange of currency in karnataka. So if a person has only one account in a local coop bank, what can he do for cash? Is this true and aint this a very stupid move?

Maddy
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Old 16th November 2016, 00:13   #762
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Okay here's my two cents. Being a public sector banker I know the pain of burden, the pain of expectation of the government from me, the pain of public wrath for no fault of mine and the pain of my disillusioned personal life. Bankers second Saturday and Sunday leave were cancelled and all of us were made to work in our branches. We did the job, as scores of commoners kept on visiting the bank branches for their own money. There were ugly scenes, abuses hurled at the bankers for not letting customers withdraw their own money owing to the restrictions put in by the government.
We kept patience and kept servicing the customers with folded hands. Today one customer kept on yelling at me at a suburban branch on the outskirts of Chennai and I could do nothing other than pacifying him, that we are waiting for fresh Rs 100 notes and as of now I have only Rs 20 notes and Rs 2000 notes.
Even though the pain of doing more hours of work at the dismal salary is not pulling me down, because every morning I get up with a mission of servicing as many Indians I can.
The banker in me appeals to all our bhpians to show respect to the bank staff who is no less than a soldier guarding our borders.
Jai hind.

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Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
Just heard from my family that the cooperative banks are not permitting both withdrawls or exchange of currency in karnataka. So if a person has only one account in a local coop bank, what can he do for cash? Is this true and aint this a very stupid move?

Maddy
They are not allowing because the RBI had banned them from doing so. However, the customers can withdraw from their accounts up to ₹24000 .
https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.econo...android-google

Last edited by bblost : 16th November 2016 at 00:29. Reason: Back 2 Back posts.
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Old 16th November 2016, 00:32   #763
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Okay here's my two cents. Being a public sector banker I know the pain of burden, the pain of expectation of the government from me, the pain of public wrath for no fault of mine and the pain of my disillusioned personal life. Bankers second Saturday and Sunday leave were cancelled and all of us were made to work in our branches.
Even though the pain of doing more hours of work at the dismal salary is not pulling me down, because every morning I get up with a mission of servicing as many Indians I can.
The banker in me appeals to all our bhpians to show respect to the bank staff who is no less than a soldier guarding our borders.
Jai hind.
Thank you and others of your ilk. Appreciate the long hours at the expense of your holidays. Also sincere apologies for the misbehaviour of some of my fellow citizens. It is indeed a harrowing time for many Indians and while many are glad with the demonetisation even at the cost of the hardships caused to themselves, it is all thanks to the sheer efforts put in by bankers all across India which has eased the pain somewhat.

Another week should probably see some semblance of normalcy and reduced queues. Hopefully this pain should also yield some long term benefits, although quite frankly, I'm extremely sceptical, but still there's hope as long as we're alive.
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Old 16th November 2016, 01:05   #764
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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The banker in me appeals to all our bhpians to show respect to the bank staff who is no less than a soldier guarding our borders.
Jai hind.



They are not allowing because the RBI had banned them from doing so. However, the customers can withdraw from their accounts up to ₹24000 .
https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.econo...android-google
Thanks to your Ilk and hats off, you guys deserve all the credit one can get. Totally unprepared for such a situation, but you guys did a good job.

The local coop bank where my dad is a member had all their cash taken back by the DCC bank, as they received orders not to disburse money from the govt is what i heard. This happened today, so am not sure what exactly is the reason. In the rural areas these coops are life savers for poor farmers. I hope there is some clarity on this situation soon.

Thanks for confirming that info though,
Maddy
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Old 16th November 2016, 01:47   #765
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Bank staff are having a hard time, of course. The mother of a friend of mine had to work all weekend when she should have been working with her daughter on her soon-to-happen marriage.

Frankly, I do go into low-nonsense-tolerance mode with bank staff, but just now I think they deserve a lot of patience.
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