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Old 20th November 2016, 21:29   #1066
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It seems that you are a good manager, please suggest me any other reliable, quick and cost effective method of the same.
Those who can, do. Those that cannot, become consultants.
Keep doing the best you can to keep your head and that of those that depend on you, above water. I dare not presume to tell you how to do this, that would be back seat driving and not correct.
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Old 20th November 2016, 21:51   #1067
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Bad experience at ICICI bank yesterday.

My father went to deposit 25 older notes of 1000 rs denomination. One of those notes turned out to be fake. Apparently they have some device which can identify fakes notes.

What the teller does is, deposits 24k in my father's account and gives him a receipt. Then takes a photocopy of the fake note and makes him sign on it, puts a "Fake note" seal and tells him it will now go to RBI.

Basically a loss of Rs.1000 for no fault of ours. We tried to reason with them that we got it from ATM/bank so what's our fault? They just refused to listen.

Is there a platform I can escalate this on?
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Old 20th November 2016, 21:55   #1068
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I agree in the light of new info you have provided that yes you are struggling. At the same time you should also be understanding that you belong to a very very minuscule group which is cut-off from the habitation to the extent that it can be said as an exception. Now please tell that would the Govt can take such a tough decision if they try to cover each and every situation. That's why its often said that Nothing or Nobody is Perfect.

The suggestion of yours that ATMs be calibrated would have taken away all the secrecy as there are Two lac ATMs and it would have taken the same work to be done again if in the first step only they were only calibrated to accommodate 2000 Rs notes to maintain secrecy.

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Actually they could have implemented it in a systematic way. What was needed was a surprise element? Cool, they could have introduced new notes, upgraded the ATM machines etc everything. And then drop the bomb one night that older notes are of no use now...
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Old 20th November 2016, 21:56   #1069
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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I believe that the 4.5K/2K limit is not because there is shortage of currency, its to ensure significant amount of money gets through banking system
I think it will get complicated, please correct if I am wrong-

When we deposit Cash in Bank, there is no different code or heading under which old or new notes are entered. Money is entered as Cash, if there are no withdrawal Limits, a business can withdraw new notes and deposit old next day citing fresh sales and no one can raise a Question. Now Government wants to control these withdrawals but this will create a big crunch on liquidity. They might have to advance deposit dates for cash deposits for business establishments say 30 November.

Last edited by Turbanator : 20th November 2016 at 22:00.
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Old 20th November 2016, 21:58   #1070
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Oxy View Post
Bad experience at ICICI bank yesterday.

My father went to deposit 25 older notes of 1000 rs denomination. One of those notes turned out to be fake. Apparently they have some device which can identify fakes notes.

What the teller does is, deposits 24k in my father's account and gives him a receipt. Then takes a photocopy of the fake note and makes him sign on it, puts a "Fake note" seal and tells him it will now go to RBI.

Basically a loss of Rs.1000 for no fault of ours. We tried to reason with them that we got it from ATM/bank so what's our fault? They just refused to listen.

Is there a platform I can escalate this on?
Be fair to the bank also. They cannot account the fake currency and give you credit for that. They have acted very well within their mandate and they cannot go beyond. Even if you got the currency from ATM, it's very difficult to prove the same. If you were a bank employee, you also will act in the exact same way the teller had dealt with the situation. I'm not sure this should be attributed as a bad experience from the bank.

Last edited by Sree73 : 20th November 2016 at 22:01.
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Old 20th November 2016, 22:00   #1071
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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This is the reason why I have been advocating all along that the government should have brought out the Amnesty scheme again with this mega decision. Even at an increased rate of lets say 50%, many such people would have happily paid that in tax and lived in peace than continue to use illegal ways to convert their ill-gotten wealth and then stay stressed arming themselves to fight the next government measure that might come.
I feel that move would have made even more people compliant due to fear. Now the maximum impact is on the lower middle class who have saved some cash.

probably we need to also look at why a common man feels the need to generate black money. Why are they reluctant to pay taxes. We are trying to make criminals out of everyone who has unaccounted money
  • Is it because, they do not see any tangible benefits of paying. Some aspects
  • We have broken infra even in major cities where there is huge tax collection.
  • Getting a decent Hospital cover is not possible. Going to government Hospital is literally like hell
  • Close to a dream to get good quality education in government schools
  • Exorbitant housing & household expenses with respect earnings

End of the day government is just like any other business entity. It provides to whom it feels will grease their hands leaving the rest in tatters.

The problem is people do not have the confidence on the system to deliver a good quality life. So gaming the system has become a default choice for many.

Why does not the government start cleaning its own house as the first step before targeting someone who is trying to survive.
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Old 20th November 2016, 22:02   #1072
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I am afraid there is little you can do, except take a letter from the bank telling you why they did what they did, if the receipt you received isn't clear enough. The automated note counter is also a counterfeit detector.

At some time in the future, you are entitled to get a confirmation from the bank that the note was confirmed to be counterfeit and therefore Rs 1000 is not due to you.

In case of any comeback to you, there may be a need for you to establish your innocence, but there is nothing you can do to make up for the loss of wealth if the note was counterfeit.

While I cannot say for sure what are all the foundations of the Indian justice system, it would be logical to assume that it is built upon the British system and thoughts.

The basis of the British system - and the one in the US for that matter - was first formally stated by Sir William Blackstone, in 1765:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Certainly in India, the criminal court system works on the basis: innocent until proven to be guilty. This is the British/US approach that is a direct consequence of the Blackstone principle.

Authoritarian personalities tend to take the opposite view. Bismarck, the German PM in the nineteenth century is supposed to have said the opposite: It is better that ten innocent men suffer than one guilty man escape.

Based on this, many European countries operate on the philosophy: Guilty until proven innocent.

This may seem to be a digression and off topic to those that read this post without thinking a little to see if it applies to the topic of the thread.

Mods, sorry about the back to back, but these are two different points; merge if appropriate.

Last edited by Aditya : 21st November 2016 at 07:33. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 20th November 2016, 22:53   #1073
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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But why aren't you asking the broader question: why does almost every Indian that has the chance to do so, do what he is doing? There is nothing great about being honest because you did not have the opportunity of being dishonest.



Trust breeds Trust and Honesty breeds Honesty, while Dishonesty breeds Dishonesty. Cast the stones at where the breeding has been done.
Whoa ! Sorry sir, but what are you even trying to say here ?? Let me remind you that there is still a miniscule populace left in this world who live by honesty though there are thousands of "opportunities" day in and day out where even they could be dishonest. But they just do not !! I may sound preachy and you may laugh, but I strongly believe that it's only because of of such people, the planet is still holding up. Honesty comes by choice or "free will" given by God, not dictated by "opportunities".

Sorry to digress a bit, but answer me here if you don't mind - When you "drive" , why do you obey all the traffic rules when the rest of the world around you cares two hoots about anything ? I see you are from Pune, so let me ask you, do you stop at the red lights because you really feel there is a "great deal" about traffic signals and their purpose or just because you don't have the so called guts as other motorists around you to grab the opportune moment and jump the signal ?? If you have an equal opportunity of breaking the signal, why don't you just do it ?? I am sure, you being a BHPian, would not break a traffic rule, out of your own will, no matter what others do. Being honest in any sphere of life is on the similar lines sir, be it not hoarding black money or virtually anything else !

I personally believe - There is every great deal about being "honest" !

Last edited by vivek95 : 20th November 2016 at 22:54.
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Old 20th November 2016, 23:12   #1074
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I never visited ATM nor bank to withdraw money till today. I had decided that I don't want to make the queue longer. Managed to scrape till today with whatever little cash I had to today. Special thanks to e-wallets and plastic money.
Went to ATM today evening and there were hardly 7-8 people. Everyone got one 2000 rupee not. Took 10 mins. Post this, went to buy some stuff and Bill was 350. The shopkeeper readily obliged with change. Got a few hundreds and fifties and tens. I felt as if demonetization had no impact on day to day business. Ofcourse, out of 6 ATM's in my locality, only 1 was open.
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Old 20th November 2016, 23:17   #1075
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I am sure the reason for limitation on withdrawals is kept mainly to assure that there is equal distribution of cash to maintain reasonable liquidity else the public would start hoarding cash unnecessarily as can be seen from the instances of educated people using multiple cards at ATM. I am also getting to feel that the Govt could lift the limit on withdrawals earlier than the prescribed date, if things ease out at ATMs and people stop withdrawing and ATMs having sufficient cash.
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Old 20th November 2016, 23:17   #1076
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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The guy bought a piece of land for 5/6 lacs ages ago and 2 months back sold it for 70+ lacs. And guess what, the property was registered for guidance value of 30 lacs and our guy is now sitting with 40+ lacs in 1000 Rs notes totally clueless. He has gone into severe depression now.
Property registration is not seller's responsibility, it's the buyers who under quote to save stamp duty. Ask him to declare the income and let the IT department decide what to do. As others mentioned he has to reinvest it in property again to save tax on gains.

I was initially very skeptical on this whole demonetisation excercise but I now see it's not that difficult like media or some people portray. It's true there is a severe liquidity crunch but things are happening like they should. Banks aren't that crowded anymore, ATMs are working. Let's hope things happen the way government planned.
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Old 20th November 2016, 23:24   #1077
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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This quote was in response to my statement that it is not illegal even today to accept the demonetised notes, for the reasons I have said so many times here, without any rebuttal from anyone based on existing laws and rules. In fact, every time I have asked to be told about exactly how it is illegal, by quoting a section from a law or a rule made under a law, there has been a thunderous silence.
I might be repeating myself. 500s & 1000s notes were withdrawn as legal tender to weed out fake currency and to identify black money. If you accept 500 & 1000 notes after Nov 8th, you might be aiding counterfeiters & black money hoarders convert their illegal stuff into legal tender. Once you hold this currency, the risk is passed on from them on to you.
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The next step, according to my limited knowledge and vision, would be to enforce KYC on all properties. It would take some time, but would ensure that no transactions are possible if KYC is not complied with. ( in the future). Maybe they would also link it to Aadhaar .
All property transactions need PAN. What else more does Govt need?
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I guess since he has sold the property, he is anyway due to file capital gains if he hasnt re-invested in property. Just ask him to get a good CA who will guide him with the Taxman on how to settle the remainder amount.
Yes, a good CA will solve his problem
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Men sitting in power or the MPs who say "I have taken cash from bank today" don't even know how long is the line outside the banks (Today is Sunday).
They are getting cash at their door step - Keep Rs 5 cr cash ready to pay our staff: LS, RS Secretariats to bank
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“We received requests from the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha offices on Friday, to arrange Rs 5 crore in cash by Monday (November 21) so that they can give Rs 10,000 as advance salary to their staffers…
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“The Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha Secretariats could have just asked the branch to transfer the advance salary amount to their staffers’ accounts . They may be asking for cash to save their employees from the inconvenience being faced by others,”
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The picture will be clear only after Dec 31 if Govt comes out with the total cash deposited figures. So far it is close to 5L Crores and expected to reach 10-12 L crores. If rest of 2-4L out of around 14L Cr in circulation is not showing up the exercise was worth the pain.
The cost Mumbai–Ahmedabad bullet train is 1L crores. With this one-time reset on black money, we can get Delhi-Mumbai bullet train or an equivalent asset.
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But yesterday I visited the fish market and boy was I shocked - there was no fresh fish. The fisher folk are in a sorry state as nobody is venturing out to fish. Their whole system was based on 500s and 1000's and now it's stuck. The boats don't go out and there's nothing to sell. When there's nothing to sell, how will they buy things. If they don't buy things, how will local businesses survive. This has affected entire villages and towns.
That sounds like famine. By creating cash crunch, Govt has put a halt to economic activity in the country. Now that cash is with banks, the onus is on banks to drive the economic activity. If Govt doesn't play its cards at the right time, there is a chance of economy going into recession.
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Many women had a "black money" hoard, legally accumulated, but hidden from their husbands and mothers in law. Now, having to deposit it, this has vanished;
Can't really call the money saved by housewives as black money. If a house wife saves Rs 5000 every month, in 10 years it will accumulate to 6 lakhs. This is pure white.
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I felt as if demonetization had no impact on day to day business. Ofcourse, out of 6 ATM's in my locality, only 1 was open.
That sounds like Faulty generalization
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Old 20th November 2016, 23:26   #1078
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Originally Posted by Oxy View Post

Basically a loss of Rs.1000 for no fault of ours. We tried to reason with them that we got it from ATM/bank so what's our fault? They just refused to listen.

Is there a platform I can escalate this on?
That's the standard operating process of the bank. They cannot credit you if a counterfeit is produced. You are good that only one out of 25 turned out to be fake. If many such notes were found they would have called the cops on you.

Good thing about demonetisation is that many such fakes are eliminated.
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Old 21st November 2016, 00:01   #1079
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Hi guys, Is this article true or false :

https://www.newslaundry.com/2016/11/...demonetisation
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Old 21st November 2016, 01:04   #1080
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Oxy View Post
Bad experience at ICICI bank yesterday.

My father went to deposit 25 older notes of 1000 rs denomination. One of those notes turned out to be fake. Apparently they have some device which can identify fakes notes.

What the teller does is, deposits 24k in my father's account and gives him a receipt. Then takes a photocopy of the fake note and makes him sign on it, puts a "Fake note" seal and tells him it will now go to RBI.

Basically a loss of Rs.1000 for no fault of ours. We tried to reason with them that we got it from ATM/bank so what's our fault? They just refused to listen.

Is there a platform I can escalate this on?
When a fake note is identified, its holder looses out. Nothing new: you have a fake note, you suffer.

That it may have been issued to you by your bank or ATM hurts, but you cannot prove the origin of that note, so nothing you can do.

There is supposed to be a lot of counterfeit currency in circulation. Getting some of out of circulation is part of the exercise.

Be glad it was only one
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